Ultima V did schedules on a fucking Apple II.
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1eyedking What makes Skyrim a worse game than Ultima 7?
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Nyast
Cipher
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Yeah, it's kindda playable. However it's a bore-fest, devoid of meaningful content, no interactions, no NPCs dialogue, and extremely repetitive. The opposite of Ultima Underworld, basically.
However if you like Underworld-like games I would recommand an indy game called "Monomyth" which is developped by a single guy, who's much better in every way.
Ludwig von Eisenthal
Prophet
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Well that looks interesting, I'll wishlist it. Thanks!
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The main difference is that in Ultima VII you actually have to use your brain to figure out what's going on and solve the main quest, while in Skyrim you can complete the game just by following the quest compass, without ever understanding what you're doing or why.
I like both and they are both amongst my favorite RPGs of all time.
Hah, checkmate!
Hah, checkmate!
V_K
Arcane
You may also want to check Unexplored. While technically a roguelite, it's the closest thing to UUW that I've played since SS2. Its level generation algorithms put many human level designers to shame, producing all sorts of puzzles, secrets and multi-level side quests that all fit together in a very logical and interesting manner.
North Gibraltarian Dog
Savant
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It is, but not the more relevant perspective. This comparison is a good example of how titles from 30 years ago can be superior to modern games in a general comparison, besides the release date or their impact in the history of the genre. Ludwig von Eisenthal, Thunar, Strange Fellow or Isaye described some specific perspectives in which Ultima VII is truly better than Skyrim. There are many more.
The criticism of Ultima VII as mechanically adventuresque or rpg-lite is another good example to apply this perspective of general comparison.
While in a historical perspective or at release date Ultima VII (more Serpent Isle than Black Gate) popularized some questionable trends in crpg design, How could we doubt about Ultima VII crpgness if we compare with hundreds of so called crpgs of modern times who despise stats, progression, exploration and player agency in favour of npc personalities, pure action combat, progression reduced to items adquisition, romances, dialogue branching and rail-roaded story? How crpg is Ultima VII compared with Disco Elysium, last year "goty"?
Nyast
Cipher
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As far as I'm concerned, if you took Ultima VII, added more stats and a more interactive / interesting combat system, it'd be damn close to my ultimate / dream RPG. It really nails down the "adventuring" feeling I think. As it stands it's "barely" in my top 10 RPGs, and I'd rate Ultima Underworld in my top 3.
It's the more relevant perspective in regards to what we were talking about. I wasn't discussing which game is better overall, which is entirely subjective anyways, I was only talking about the implementation of NPC schedules.
PorkyThePaladin
Arcane
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It's not just that U7 was released in 1992 and Skyim in 2011, it's what the RPG background context was at those respective times. When U7 came out, you had some RPGs or games that could claim to be open world in a sense, like some of the earlier Ultimas, or the earlier Zeldas, but their open worlds were just open maps essentially, as opposed to locked in levels. U7 was the first one to actually feel like an open world, that is an open map filled with enough coherent and interconnected content to make it feel like an actual virtual world. The NPC schedules, the interactivity, the houses with crap you could steal or combine with other crap, all of that stuff. It was a revolutionary game in that sense, which is why to this day, many of the people who later made their own open world classics site The Black Gate as their inspiration. Many of its aspects might have been inferior (the combat, the story, the UI), especially when judged by today's standards, but for its time it was an absolute trailblazer that changed the entire genre.
Skyrim was a mediocre game worse in every possible way than other open world games of its time, and those before. It did not blaze any new ground, everything it did other games had already done, and much better. Gothics had far better gameplay, more interesting combat, better exploration, better NPC behavior and world design. Morrowind and New Vegas had far better writing and lore.
Skyrim was a mediocre game worse in every possible way than other open world games of its time, and those before. It did not blaze any new ground, everything it did other games had already done, and much better. Gothics had far better gameplay, more interesting combat, better exploration, better NPC behavior and world design. Morrowind and New Vegas had far better writing and lore.
Serious_Business
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rusty_shackleford
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Spent a bit of time thinking on this to better explain:
Go to any of the taverns and just sit down. Pay attention to what's happening for maybe two or three minutes.
At best you'd see people entering, sitting down, maybe eating magical food they got somehow without interacting with a waiter(U7 had this in 1992), eventually standing up, and leaving. Maybe a bard would enter and start singing. That's it. Lifelessness.
No friends go there together, nobody converses, nobody is playing any sorts of games(cards, dice, fantasy darts, what have you), nobody is ordering anything. There are no drunks singing along with the bard and slurring their lines, there are no drunks being seduced by tavern wenches to take their gold, there are no spontaneous drunken tavern fights because someone said another person's wife looks like an ogre's ass, and the tavern owner doesn't throw the drunks out when it's closing time. A believable medieval-fantasy tavern this does not make.
This applies to the entire game. They put the bare minimum effort in to make it seem like people actually live there, but it just falls apart under closer inspection. They didn't even try.
Considering the conversations that happen when they do actually talk to each other, that's probably a good thing
Harthwain
Magister
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That's because Skyrim is no simulation. It has NPC schedules and people address the player and that's enough to create the illusion of a living world, but if you dig deeper the cracks will show. Still, in a world where there aren't many - if any - games that feature the actual simulation of the world it's good enough.
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