Which programming language did you choose and why?

[Krice]

Since you continue being too dumb to understand what I am saying, I guess I will let you continue to be dumb. Run along now, boyo.

Just show us some examples of fast Python programs. Or even slow ones. Something tangible to back up your trash talk. I'm waiting.

 

[Tramboi]

I think you're downplaying it. IMO, Python is unsufferably slow and you have lots of high level languages that are more expressive AND much faster.

And in the meantime, Python continues to be #1 or #2 most popular language in the world by job listings, every single year. So you do you, gf.

Yes and people listen to Shakira and play Fortnite

 

[kepler]

I think you're downplaying it. IMO, Python is unsufferably slow and you have lots of high level languages that are more expressive AND much faster.

And in the meantime, Python continues to be #1 or #2 most popular language in the world by job listings, every single year. So you do you, gf.

Yes and people listen to Shakira and play Fortnite

Although Shakira and Fortnite is popular for a different reason (marketing), validating something on a base of popularity is just pure copium inhaling.

PorkyThePaladin is a troll and you guys basically feeding him this last couple of pages.

EDIT: Fuck this editor.

 

[Azdul]

Since the QuakeWorld every reasonable programmer knows that if you don't get new packet from the client - client is moving in the same direction with the same speed.

I don't know, what if it isn't and the packet has just not arrived yet?

I thought the problem was that the same variables existed many times. Everyone had positions on their computer but they were already outdated, or in the worst case just estimated by some "clever" method (i.e. a hack). Then suddenly the real value arrived from the server and it was completely different. Something was completely wrong here, maybe the updates that should have happened several times per second were just not coming and since they were only using someone else's libraries they never figured out how?

It's also possible that they were dumb enough to program their server in Unity too, because that was all they knew. The clients running in Unity was probably never an issue. But the server had to be able to support ultra high response and precision, ensuring that no matter what the important position synch was guaranteed to be happening within milliseconds, and no bullshit like garbage collectors or random Unity bloat able to interfere.

1. You cannot reliably send data between every client and server 60 times a second.

If movement is registered only when data exchange takes place - and it takes place 5 times a second - instead of smooth movement you will see players teleporting few steps at the time.

If no data exchange means moving in the same direction with the same speed - everyone moves smoothly for every other client - even if communication channels are not perfect.

2. You cannot send whole state of the world between every client and server too often. Every client receives only difference from previous state - with a checksum. If client will lose one such message - checksum will no longer match and client will get desynced. Client will request full state of the world from the server to get in-sync again - creating temporary high load on the server.

This creates obvious problem when more clients will desync at once. Any large scale interruption in communication creates cascade effect.

When new client connects - his data needs to be send to all other clients. This data needs to be stored somewhere - and it requires memory allocations. Memory allocations require free heap - which triggers GC on client machines - often with 'stop the world' scenario. It creates a perfect storm where all clients experience communication disruptions at the same time.

Darkfall (and old FPS Chrome) used Java for game logic and didn't have such issues. However - their VMs were started by native process and were isolated from critical parts of the engine. Players saw 'load lag' each time other players came nearby - but the clients were not desynced - because communication thread was not affected.

 

[Raghar]

Game engines typically update 10x per second. Twitch reflexes FPS are exception.

 

[frajaq]

Im glad this thread has been up for 10 years and I can read old posts. I have absolutely 0 experience in coding and I'm following some random free coding learning thing on the internet. It already starts with JavaScript even for beginners but I'm willing to take my time to really learn things, and this thread already illuminated my path a little since so many people told their experiences.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Just show us some examples of fast Python programs. Or even slow ones. Something tangible to back up your trash talk. I'm waiting.

I realize you are too dumb to understand why you are not getting what I said earlier, but stupidity does not make one immune to strawmanning and thus being (implicitly) ignored. Sorry bro.

I think you're downplaying it. IMO, Python is unsufferably slow and you have lots of high level languages that are more expressive AND much faster.

And in the meantime, Python continues to be #1 or #2 most popular language in the world by job listings, every single year. So you do you, gf.

Yes and people listen to Shakira and play Fortnite

This is a bad analogy because what people listen to in their spare time reflects their personal tastes. What the smartest people select to make money for their businesses reflects something else.

 

[Krice]

I realize you are too dumb to understand

I can wait. In the meantime you could also show some of your projects so we know you are not just talking from your asshole and in fact are an actual programmer. You never know, this is internet.

 

[Not.AI]

I am still surprised that I program better in C++ than in Python.

I mean my code in C++ is nowhere near as buggy as what I write in Python.

I don't know why and how this is even possible. But that is my lived experience.

Spoiler

Seriously, I'm actually much better at doing the same thing in C++ than in Python. I have no idea why.

Can't program in Java either, at this point. Don't know why.

I also like this postmodern "cool" phrase "lived experience". Always wanted to use it - talk about my "lived experience". Checkmark.

 

[Tramboi]

I am still surprised that I program better in C++ than in Python.

I mean my code in C++ is nowhere near as buggy as what I write in Python.

I don't know why and how this is even possible. But that is my lived experience.

Static typing ?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

I can wait. In the meantime you could also show some of your projects so we know you are not just talking from your asshole and in fact are an actual programmer. You never know, this is internet.

def count_to_five(): for counter in range(get_krices_iq()): print(str(counter + 1))

 

[Blutwurstritter]

def count_to_five(): for counter in range(get_krices_iq()): print(str(counter + 1))

from PorkyThePaladin import count_to_five

if __name__ == "__main__":
    count_to_five()
    
>>> Traceback (most recent call last):
  FunError: joke not found

Doesn't work for me.

 

[BoroMonokli]

Aand here is a completely unrelated one: Autohotkey.

It's portable, so perfect for my work computer without admin privileges, uses com objects easily, and allowed me to insanely cut down the amount of work (and attention!) I had to do to transfer data from a spreadsheet to a web interface. Line by line. It saves me ~1 hour of headache every day and one week of headache every year. And that annual saving of effoet is for approx 10 other people, which lets them keep doing their work with disabled people without interruptions.

Speed isnt a concept because webpages are slow.

Although I just copied the entire .NET framework that came with windows to my desktop workspace and with csc I can make c# programs now without needing admin privileges. If I can make msbuild work with selenium without any installations, then I can change back to that.

 

[Arbiter]

I can wait. In the meantime you could also show some of your projects so we know you are not just talking from your asshole and in fact are an actual programmer. You never know, this is internet.

def count_to_five(): for counter in range(get_krices_iq()): print(str(counter + 1))

This only shows how verbose Python is.

Kotlin:

fun countToFive() = (0 until getLimit()).forEach{println(it + 1)}

Scala:

def countToFive() = (0 until limit).foreach(i => println(i + 1))

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

You know what else is verbose? The human language...

 

[Arbiter]

You know what else is verbose? The human language...

Natural language is also ambiguous. Would you like to code in an ambiguous language?

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

No, but Python is the best of both worlds right now, unambigous enough to work as a programming language, but also with a syntax very close to human language/pseudo-code.

 

[Arbiter]

No, but Python is the best of both worlds right now, unambigous enough to work as a programming language, but also with a syntax very close to human language/pseudo-code.

Human language/pseudo-code is useful for non-programmers like data scientists, business analysts, finance people. Programmers should write clean, short, maintainable code. Whether that code resembles human language or not is not important as long as the code is clean and its purpose obvious.

 

[Viata]

Pseudo-code is a cancer. Anyone that had to implement some complex algorithm and said algorithm was written in pseudo-code knows how horrible that shit is. Fuck whoever came up with the idea of writing in pseudo-code.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

One, pseudocode is obviously much easier to maintain than machine level code. Its whole purpose is to display the logic of the program.

Two, you are thinking like a tech nerd. How clean your code is, is mostly a personal pride thing for you. Because in the real world, sometimes you will have crazy deadlines or whatever, and the code won't be clean, or you will work with other people whose code is not clean, and so on. It's pretty much impossible to keep a large codebase "clean". By even trying, you will end up using tools that take a lot longer to churn out code because they are at a much lower level of abstraction, and thus slow down the programmer. So while you are sitting like a pretty cupcake, with your clean code, the others guys have already built out a world-changing app.

 

[Arbiter]

One, pseudocode is obviously much easier to maintain than machine level code. Its whole purpose is to display the logic of the program.

Two, you are thinking like a tech nerd. How clean your code is, is mostly a personal pride thing for you. Because in the real world, sometimes you will have crazy deadlines or whatever, and the code won't be clean, or you will work with other people whose code is not clean, and so on. It's pretty much impossible to keep a large codebase "clean". By even trying, you will end up using tools that take a lot longer to churn out code because they are at a much lower level of abstraction, and thus slow down the programmer. So while you are sitting like a pretty cupcake, with your clean code, the others guys have already built out a world-changing app.

Can explain why your Python example is better than my Kotlin and Scala examples? Any would it take less time to write?

 

[Rincewind]

What the smartest people select to make money for their businesses reflects something else.

How did you come to this conclusion that "most devs" == "smartest people"?

 

[Rincewind]

Porky is one of those guys who would fail our job interviews after the first round. Has shown basically zero familiarity with FP concepts so far, neither understands the value of static typing. At this point, this thread is a joke.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Can explain why your Python example is better than my Kotlin and Scala examples? Any would it take less time to write?

I keep saying this but you guys don't listen. I don't care about small scale stuff, or comparing little code snippets or performance or whatever. This is generally irrelevant. The reason why I would pick Python over Kotlin and Scala right now is because Python is one of the most popular programming languages (top 2 every year for a decade), and Kotlin and Scala right now are relative small potatoes (I believe Kotlin might be more than that in the mobile app field, but I couldn't care less about that field, so ...). If the moment comes when Kotlin and Scala become anywhere near as popular as Python, I will then consider them, but until then, you guys are kinda like someone saying "Norwegian is so much more elegant than English...". The libraries and online resources that Python has due to its popularity, as well as the validation, that has to be earned by any other language. Until then, why should I spend my time on investigating all these other languages when Python is just fine for my needs...

What the smartest people select to make money for their businesses reflects something else.

How did you come to this conclusion that "most devs" == "smartest people"?

Most devs don't select what language to use. Technical founders, CTOs, etc do. And those guys are pretty smart, and are constantly selecting Python.

Porky is one of those guys who would fail our job interviews after the first round. Has shown basically zero familiarity with FP concepts so far, neither understands the value of static typing. At this point, this thread is a joke.

Good thing that I am not some 3rd rate outsourced programmer then, so I won't have to interview with you people, eh?

 

[Rincewind]

Until then, why should I spend my time on investigating all these other languages when Python is just fine for my needs...

You do whatever, we couldn't care less. You just made some sweeping generalisations about other languages, which we corrected, then you got butthurt, and made more sweeping generalisations and false claims about Python, which we corrected again.

Most devs don't select what language to use. Technical founders, CTOs, etc do. And those guys are pretty smart, and are constantly selecting Python.

There are so many problems with these claims that I won't even start.

Good thing that I am not some 3rd rate outsourced programmer then, so I won't have to interview with you people, eh?

No, you sound like some overconfident American talking out of his ass. Btw, it's an American/Australian company where I work, in Australia. But we have some good outsourced Ukrainian and Polish people too.

The only time Python gets used for anything is by the ops guys to hack together some scripts, and that's it.