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Why boomer shooters are unpopular

Sjukob

Arcane
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Messages
2,067
The Boomer shooter market is really small. Even the biggest hit yet Dusk only has 13K reviews on Steam after nearly 4 years.
So I wanted to share my opinion about this for a long time, I've finaly got enough patience to write it up.

I've played 90s FPS games for the first time somewhere in 2013-2014 and I've kept playing them regularly up to this day. I'm not usually interested in these so called "boomer shooters", that get released today, for one reason primarily - they usually have nothing to offer outside of little novelty of not being Doom, Quake, Blood or whatever. Let me elaborate this.

When you develop a game you have to deal with deadlines, at least most of the people have to. The limiting factor can be money, time, fatigue or something else, at certain point you realize that you have to shit something out or give up on the work entirely. This means that you have very limited timespan to figure out gameplay related nuances and craft something original within your system. You generally don't see something like archvile carousel from sunlust or mancubian candidate from valiant in these games. The developers have to spend a good amount of time on technical stuff: coding, making graphics, polishing systems etc. And the stuff they create is new, as I've just said, it's very likely that nobody had enough time to figure out neat details during the development and put them to good use. In comparison, people who make maps for classic FPS have years or even decades worth of experience with those games and they can even ask other likeminded nerds for help, they can dedicate almost all of their time to fine tuning the gameplay, because they don't have to invent new systems or heavily occupy themselves with technical issues. On top of it, those classic games, primarily Doom, have nearly flawless gameplay that remains unmatched even 29 years after it's release. So when you try to make something resembling those classic FPS you are already playing a lost game, because their systems are very likely to be better than yours and they had decades of time for things to be built on top of them.

The next thing, which makes it even worse, at least for me it does, is a catastrophic lack of difficulty. I guess it happens either because the developers are afraid of making the game difficult or because they lack experience and understanding of their systems to make a good challenge. If you've tried playing those boomer shooters you know tha usually they are pretty easy even on the hardest difficulty setting, meanwhile if try to play some hardcore wad for Doom, like sunlust or stardate for example, you are very likely to find yourself reloading a lot due to many deaths even in the early parts of the wad. However, I'm not rooting for unfair "fuck you" type of shit. Look at something like Ancient Aliens, for example. It's not even that tough of wad, but you have to face a cyberdemon on level 1, the map itself is designed around this cyberdemon, he's the main feature of it. You never see something like this in boomer shooters, they can't really challenge experienced players, they lack a bite. Instead of providng a good challenge they usually introduce some gimmicky shit instead, like death in one hit or ironman mode, meanwhile classic FPS can be very hard even without such nonsense. I would've really liked to see games being designed around hardest difficulty setting with other options simply serving as downscaled versions, I think that the casuals wouldn't even notice this, majority of players don't even go further than half of the game, just look at the achivements in steam, but at least there will something on the table for the nerds.

These two issues make boomer shooters uninteresting for me, they don't offer anything substantial in comparison to 90s FPS and are trivial to play, I get bored of them pretty quickly. I don't know how many people feel the same way, but I personally don't understand how can such games ever be popular. The hardcore nerds, the ones that create content for the game, be it maps, videos, guides or something else, might play them on occasion, because they want to take a break from Doom, Quake or whaterver their FPS of preference is, but they are very unlikely to stay, because the classic FPS are simply all around better. They won't attract a lot of casual players for obvious reasons. So lack of popularity seems obvious to me. Also, I'm not even digging that deep, there are way more problems with those boomer shooters: lack of proper modding support, inferior soundtrack, artstyle, optimization and more.

You know, Doom Eternal has caused a lot of screeching here, but personally I can respect that game for trying to do it's own thing. I don't think that somebody will ever successfully improve the 90s FPS formula, so trying to create something new seems like the best idea to me. And at least it tries to be difficult, I genuinely found some parts of it, like certain master and DLC levels, to be tough, there's also a decent number of things to master in Eternal, but of course it will never ever be comparable to classic Doom.
 

Bad Sector

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
2,261
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
've played 90s FPS games for the first time somewhere in 2013-2014 and I've kept playing them regularly up to this day. I

TBH i think that pretty much sums up the rest of your message - as far as you are concerned these "90s" shooters are new stuff and compared to the new "boomer shooter" games, they were made by bigger teams with established funding and most likely more experience. But if you were playing those since the 90s or at least 2000s you'd most likely have already played all worthy games and were at the "scratching the barrel's bottom" state where you'd be playing whatever budget FPS from the mid-2000s.

Also another thing to keep in mind is that community maps very often are essentially using the engine/game as a base for their own thing that may not actually be what others would want to play - for example a ton of modern Quake 1 maps feel very "un-Quake-y". I consider Quake 1 my favorite FPS of all time but even when playing community maps i stick with those that are smaller and closer to id's originals. However this isn't what most Quake mappers want to do (some maps even change core gameplay stuff like making the shotgun throw projectiles instead of being a hitscan weapon).

And finally no matter how much i like it there is only so many times i can shoot the same ogre or imp and total conversions are rarer than ever - though in a way "boomer shooters" are higher quality total conversions.
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
9,886
Location
Water Play Catarinense
They are unpopular because the overwhelming majority of them are shit.
Pretty much this. The video game industry is the most dumb shit out there, the most consumerist industry and any other industry would love their consumers were as dumb as the video game ones. So why is genre x unpopular in such industry? Because most of them sucks. Simple as that.
 

Curratum

Guest
The issue here is, boomer shooters are primarily aimed at people who enjoyed the old ones, but the new ones are shit compared to them. They might sell to a less demanding audience that never played the good old ones, but they look too shit and weird for the new players, and old players have access to a near-infinite storage of levels and gameplay in the old classics, so it's a bit of a vicious circle.
 

Bad Sector

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Messages
2,261
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
old players have access to a near-infinite storage of levels and gameplay in the old classics

That is only for a handful of games (basically Doom and Quake 1 and perhaps DN3D but i haven't followed that one much - Quake 2 also seems to have a few releases in recent years but nothing compared to Quake 1's volume) and as i wrote above you get tired of even the best food if that is all you get to experience. However (AFAIK) there aren't really any active mapping communities for, e.g. Kingpin or Hexen 2 (and for the latter, the only maps i remember trying out played like fantasy Quake instead of having any exploration and puzzles like Hexen 2's official maps), others are barely hanging there (Unreal 1) while many games never even had any mapping communities at all.
 

Curratum

Guest
Fuck Hexen's retarded puzzles and exploration honestly. This crap was the forebear to Half Life and the death of good shooters.
 

randir14

Augur
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
644
The only new ones I like are Prodeus and Ion Fury. Most of these new boomer shooters try too hard to look like shit. I think Dusk's art style is awful and would've been something you found in the Walmart bargain bin back in the 90s.
 

Dodo1610

Arcane
Joined
May 3, 2018
Messages
2,162
Location
Germany
I might buy some indie shooters if they weren't all based on Quake, Doom or Duke3D/Build engine games I really hope we see more games based on the later 90 and early 2000s shooters like Unreal, AVP2, Half-Life, Nolf or hell even the early Medal of Honors games. The entire SP FPS genre has been abandoned by gaming industry yet all the indie devs do is copying the same three ancient FPS.
 

Lemming42

Arcane
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Messages
6,203
Location
The Satellite Of Love
Probably something to investigate in the idea that devs in the 90s were just trying to make good games within certain technological limitations, whereas present-day devs are trying to artificially recreate those same limitations with weird effects.
 

Naraya

Arcane
Joined
Oct 19, 2014
Messages
1,526
Location
Tuono-Tabr
I like the newly made boomer shooters, but it is true that nothing can ever reach the perfection of Quake 1.

Uh, no emote was adequate so I need to reply like a normal person would.
As for me - I don't like the newly made boomer shooters (Doom Eternal SUCKS BALLS) *and* nothing can ever reach the perfection of Quake 1.
 

Wunderbar

Arcane
Joined
Nov 15, 2015
Messages
8,818
Popularity of certain genres doesn't depend on whether the games are deep or not, popularity depends on normies. And normies ignore these games because they tend to look ugly and low-budget.
 

Morpheus Kitami

Liturgist
Joined
May 14, 2020
Messages
2,562
I feel like a bigger problem with all these boomer shooters is that most of them are made by people who haven't actually played any of the levelsets for Doom/Quake/Duke or even made a video game before, they just heard "this levelset is so good I would pay money for it", skipped a whole bunch of steps and went straight to selling to trying to sell their own game. Meanwhile, the people who did those great levelsets are probably doing another levelset, because that's what they know how to do. Doesn't help that between New Blood and 3D Realms you have like 600 games that are in development.
Also, something people miss, those levelsets are usually made by many people, while all these commercial games seem to be made by around 1-3 people, with some paid for sound, music and voice acting.
 

Ivan

Arcane
Joined
Jun 22, 2013
Messages
7,529
Location
California
Have had wonderful experiences with the new blood

looking forward to devil may quake when it releases proper
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,397
I think the problem is that a great level is something more than a bunch of enemies and walls, all great levels on boomer shooters tell a story with a beginning, middle and end but exclusively through gameplay and that is hard as fuck to accomplish, to create a series of encounters that move on the right pacing, right difficulty, with variety on location, enviromental context and encounters, with rising stakes on the fights achieving an unique feel to the level as if the level itself was communicating with you is a really rare ability on a level designer.

I played a few of new boomer shooters and in sometimes I felt I was playing an amorphous blob of samey looking levels that failed to be remarkable, the enemy placement didnt look like it followed any logic at all or any plan to evolve more than just random shit to shoot. Also, because the graphics/gameplay of new boomer shooters are similar to modder levels and modders have more liberty in going wild, many being experienced mappers, you dont see much difference from some new new boomer shooter levels and some random mapper content while the best mappers are making content that is actually better than released products.
 

Utfärd

Guest
And here I thought this thread was about boomers going on shooting sprees...

:negative:
 

Arthandas

Prophet
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,390
I like the newly made boomer shooters, but it is true that nothing can ever reach the perfection of Quake 1.
Ahh yes, the original Quake...
qrack006b-1.jpg
 

Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,614
Location
Nottingham
Got Dusk & Amid Evil sat wait to be played, must get round to them soon.

Arthurian Legends was cool though, great difficulty gradient.
 

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