Why did Real Time Strategy genre die out?

[Desman]

Wonder if the fact this is a genre that only works on PC has something to do with it.

The first RTS I ever played was Dune II on megadrive. Then I played Red Alert and Warcraft 2 on PS1

One of the first RTS - Herzog Zwei - was made originally for megadrive

So it's not really a problem

Most of the time the console version was way worse than the PC version and it was not just about the controler (starcraft 64 sup ?)

 

[Damned Registrations]

Civilization specifically no, but to argue the genre never would have gone anywhere is retarded. Koei belted out a ton of strategy games and they're anything but primitive, and while they released on PC first, they probably had more console sales given Japan's tiny PC market. It's a fairly retarded question to begin with, given that the only relevant difference is keyboard and mouse support, and peripherals for such showed up pretty quickly and would have without home PCs.

 

[Ol' Willy]

Wonder if the fact this is a genre that only works on PC has something to do with it.

The first RTS I ever played was Dune II on megadrive. Then I played Red Alert and Warcraft 2 on PS1

One of the first RTS - Herzog Zwei - was made originally for megadrive

So it's not really a problem

Most of the time the console version was way worse than the PC version and it was not just about the controler (starcraft 64 sup ?)

Again not an issue

I constantly see retards who state that N64 Doom is better than vanilla Doom

An idea that could arise only in sick, deranged mind, and yet, it is the parasite that has many hosts

 

[Lyric Suite]

It's terrible, but hey, didn't impact the genre

Now i know you are just trolling.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Did BG3 actually resurrect anything?

We shall know 10 years from now, when all the devs start releasing what they started to work on back at 2023

Well, we know there's at least one company that won't change because of BG3 lmao:

 

[Necrensha]

Well, we know there's at least one company that won't change because of BG3 lmao:

Bethesda when you ask them to make an effort:

 

[Ol' Willy]

It's terrible, but hey, didn't impact the genre

Now i know you are just trolling.

I mean the *popularity* of the genre

I get your argument, but the "console death" looks different

Let's say we have the genre that is popular on PC
The proverbial corpos find it and and think - we could make some good money selling it on consoles
But you can't play a genre like this on the console
No worries, we have specially trained coding monkeys to accommodate the gameplay for console peasants

And thus the bastard is born, the grotesque abomination which instantly loses the majority of its former player base

The peasants may like it - letting the bastard live, or may not, dooming it to perish

This is indeed what happened with shooters, the scars of consolitardation are very deep. But the bastard of console shooter is alive and well commercially

But I don't really see many bastards - be them successful or not - in RTS genre.

RTS were ported on consoles since their inception, and were ported oftentimes very well and faithfully.

 

[Beans00]

It's goes beyond that. Herzog Zwei was an action game because those generally predominated on console or the arcades.

The thing you want to ask yourself is, would Civilization exist if it wasn't for home computers?

RTS games took advantage of the same environment that made Civilization possible. If only consoles existed the genre would have never gone farther than Herzog. Just a strategy/arcade hybrid.

Maybe you should cry some more, lol.

 

[Damned Registrations]

The whole 'console death' thing is especially retarded when you consider the mobile game market, which is even bigger, and hasn't really done fuck all to stop real games from being made. Fromsoft didn't start making Bejeweled clones.

There have always been shitty, low effort cash grab games being made. Consoles and phones are just the newest low bar for how to make them. Shifts in what genres and details of those genres are all about the sorts of developers anhd publishers that are around today, marketing, and the audience. Casuals were never going to play hyper twitchy multiplayer games that require being played like a 2nd full time job to enjoy, and some mega conglomerate company was never going to make games for a niche market instead of targetting the 90% of people that buy games, play for an hour and forget about them, preferably after setting up a subscription.

 

[Lyric Suite]

My argument had nothing to do with the size of the market.

My argument was that because PC games have to be made for consoles, their nature has been irreparably compromised. Genres that can't work on consoles have been decimated. Some have just been degrated, dumbed down or otherwise ruined.

Mobile market doesn't enter into this argument because they aren't included in multiplatform development. Mobile market WOULD of course be an issue if all games had to be made simultaneously for PC, console AND mobile.

 

[Beans00]

My argument had nothing to do with the size of the market.

My argument was that because PC games have to be made for consoles, their nature has been irreparably compromised. Genres that can't work on consoles have been decimated. Some have just been degrated, dumbed down or otherwise ruined.

Mobile market doesn't enter into this argument because they aren't included in multiplatform development. Mobile market WOULD of course be an issue if all games had to be made simaltanously for PC, console AND mobile.

All the best selling rts(except starcraft and aoe 2) came out in the early 00's, after the console boom.

Explain that crybaby

 

[Damned Registrations]

My argument was that because PC games have to be made for consoles, their nature has been irreparably compromised.

Yes, this is a dumb argument because they don't have to be made for consoles. Plenty of games still get made that aren't intended for a console port. Last I checked, there weren't any EU4 or SC2 or Total Warhammer console ports.

Games that don't work on consoles haven't been decimated. They just haven't exploded like the games for casuals have. There have been plenty of RTS games released in the last 20 years. You're just moping because nobody wants to play your particular favourite brand of twitchy pvp crap, and most of those that do aren't willing to learn a new game instead of continuing to play the one they invested thousands of hours learning to play. Factorio has 150,000 reviews. Rimworld 165k. So clearly those aspects of RTS have a demand, and judging by the plethora of clones, it's being served.

Grey Goo has 2500 reviews, and it was released 5 years earlier than Factorio and hailed as the best RTS since SC2. Supreme Commander 2 was 5 years before that and has 7700 reviews. AoE2 definitive edition has 130k. Red Alert 3, 13k. AoE4 has probably the best showing at 54k, being that it's fairly casual oriented with lots of QoL features and single player stuff.

This idea you have that if only consoles didn't exist there'd be half a dozen AAA twitchy RTS games coming out every year is retarded. There's no demand for this shit. There never was. Have you even played half the games I listed? Why the fuck not, if you're so desperately thirsty for this 'dead' genre?

"Oh, woe is me! Shitty games I won't even buy aren't getting made as often as they used to!"

 

[Ol' Willy]

In fact, are there any well known indie RTS from recently?

Because we have plenty of indie shooters
Plenty of indie RPGs
Plenty of indie TBS, including the Panzer General clone fest of several years ago
In fact, we finally get a proper tank simulator from indie studio, the first since 2011 (!)

But nobody makes any RTS?

 

[Inec0rn]

The OP means AAA RTS / SC2 hurr durr. There are quite a few good RTS about to come out and a lot of very active mod communities for good existing games.

- Recent Tiberian Sun mods have been really good, https://www.moddb.com/games/cc-tiberian-sun/mods
- Beyond All Reason scratches the TA/SupCom itch, but only skirmish and MP so far.
- Tempest Rising has got a bit of hype around it, Frank Klepacki doing the music is also great - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kjwl_7Ah-kc
- All the SC2 clones look shit to me, but there is still interest there and several in development.
- Sanctuary Shattered Sun.
- Godsworn / WC3 clone looks good but taking forever.
- Homeworld 3, meh didn't play wasn't interested.
- D.O.R.F is 2.5d and I think it looks great.
- Also the recent Starship troopers and Terminator RTS's (while a little bit different to traditional RTS's) were generally well received and not bad games.
- Dust Front looks alright too, https://store.steampowered.com/app/2610770/Dust_Front_RTS/

I'm sure other's could probably add another 10-15 games to this list, but hey the genre is dead ..

 

[Lyric Suite]

Your post indicates beyond the shadow of a doubt that the genre is indeed dead.

 

[Lyric Suite]

But nobody makes any RTS?

Not the argument. A genre can still be dead despite still existing.

Rock music is pretty much dead even though there's still rock bands out there still making music.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Yes, this is a dumb argument because they don't have to be made for consoles.

Yes they do. That's the whole point of "multiplatform" developement.

Name one big game released after the shit box that wasn't developed and released simultaneously for console and PC.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Have you even played half the games I listed? Why the fuck not, if you're so desperately thirsty for this 'dead' genre?

Because most of those games are mid and outright shit.

There were a lot of mid and shit RTS games back in the day as well. We ignored most of those too.

What deflated the momentum for me was SC2. It already felt the genre was on its eay out even before that, but we all waited for Blizzard next release to sort of resurrect the hype. But Starcraft 2 was so shit in so many respects, not to mention all the shenanigans they pulled with Battle.net 2.0, that for me it was basically the final nail in the coffin.

With Blizzard gone to shit, and Westwood getting killed off because of EA's utter incompetence and greed, the two major players of the genre were gone, so what was left?

 

[Inec0rn]

I think your series of posts indicate beyond a shadow of a doubt that your brain doesn't work very good.

Sure multi-platform is a no-brainer to sell products and baked into a lot of the engines dev's use thesedays but not absolutely mandatory depending on the project. Right i guess minecraft, moba's, CS, mmo's etc havn't made billions (that's right billions) or anything without console.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Yes, this is a dumb argument because they don't have to be made for consoles.

Yes they do. That's the whole point of "multiplatform" developement.

Name one big game released after the shit box that wasn't developed and released simultaneously for console and PC.

You mean besides all the RTS games? Was AoE4 not a big game? SC2? Total War franchise? Civilization? Diablo 3? Warframe? Various MMO games?

In before more retarded anti-logic about why none of these count.

Why the fuck do you want a 'big' game anyways? Blizzard wasn't some sort of multi billion industry megacorp when it made Warcraft, and the bloated budgets of the AAA industry is a big reason why they're all so shit. Indie studios without shareholders to appease have always been where the best games come from. Try playing some real games instead of moaning about their perfectly reasonable budgets and development times.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Why the fuck do you want a 'big' game anyways?

Because there is no genre without big games.

It's like asking "why do you need something as big as The Beatles, or Led Zeppelin anymore? Look, rock is still alive today (proceeds to list shit nobody has either ever heard or is just a second rate imitation of the "big" bands of the past)".

Rock music died around the 90s and by the early 2000s is was already a rotten corpse being kept alive with necromancy. The fact there are still bands making rock music today doesn't change this fact.

The same applies here. RTS games became big as a genre because big games made it big, same as everything else in art or entertainment.

 

[Damned Registrations]

Oh no, shitty casuals won't know about my favourite thing, how can I possibly enjoy it without a million retards agreeing with me and 'important' people talking about it? Fucking hell that's a pathetic world view.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Right i guess minecraft, moba's, CS, mmo's etc havn't made billions (that's right billions) or anything without console.

MMOs make a lot of money for the same reason Candy Crush makes a lot of money: in game purchases. But that doesn't mean much. It also only applies to a few of them (and of those it's mostly WoW). MMOs are in reality a failed genre that also died quite a long time ago, and the vast majority of them crashed and burned and are only bieng sustained today with necromantic magic.

Minecraft is not a PC exclusive game, so it doesn't count. Counter Stike isn't either.

MOBAs is the one genre that defies my argument but in reality they sort of prove it in their own way. Why? Because MOBAs essentially concentrated on elements that could NOT be adapted to consoles, so they kind ended up cornering the market and coralling every strand of PC exclusivism that was left. Everything that could be adapted to consoles became compromised. Those few genres that could never be adapted in any shape, way or form but still had a large following drew everything onto themselves, leaving nothing left for other genres, especially those that became tainted.

 

[Inec0rn]

don't play anything then until blizz release another legandary console oriented RTS then, problem solved.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Well, you are more then free to believe the genre didn't die and is just as alive as it has ever been... because of Grey Goo, or Homeworld 3.

By "alive", some of us mean something else than the existence of the ghetto shit you would have ignored back in the 90s.