Star Wars Why I fell out of love with KOTOR

[Heroic Liberator]

to me NwN 1 is better than KotORs, NwN 2

KotOR 2 > MotB >>> KotOR >>>>>> rest of NwN franchise.

KotOR is a decent game, but it's just vanilla Star Wars. And while it works decently in a cinematic format (including SW games with no C&C in this category), it's just goofy as an RPG. You either play as a cartoon villain or as some silly paragon of justice. And NwN is just vanilla fantasy played safe. Cozy if you're into that sort of thing, but overall just meh. Prefer BG for that sort of thing.

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Bioware games were always at best mediocre where NWN1 was terrible and KOTOR even worse with the steady downhill decline of overrated trash into the bottom of the dumpster. Even BG1 is overrated and BG2 is even more highly overrated.

 

[Volourn]

NWN is best game ever. Only retarts ever. Out if the Bio games I played, only ME3/4 and DA3 are worse than KOTOR.

 

[Storyfag]

It is the fault of authors of these characters that they fail to address the bigger picture implied by the lore and the world in which their characters are set: why would a Sith master be angry with his former apprentice if the latter managed to oust him from his position? Doesn't the Sith Code literally say that things like strength, power and victory matter the most? Isn't the one who achieves those things, and removes his master out of the picture, proving by definition to be in possession of qualities for a master himself? Isn't betrayal wholly natural and expected, in fact necessary course of action for every apprentice? Why would a master feel anguish at being bested by his apprentice, doesn't that prove that the master did a good job and has created someone of greater worth to be a Dark Lord?

Simple, really. Every Sith Master wants to remain one forever, so being bitter about losing the status is only natural. Why take an Apprentice at all, then, you ask? The reasons vary. Having a competent minion is convenient. Not taking one is a show of weakness. To quote Palpatine, "A Master without an Apprentice is a Master of nothing."

Likewise, why would a former apprentice, now a master, feel the constant need to babble on about his supposed superiority and how he will, most definitely THIS TIME!, destroy completely once and for all his former master?

In Malak's case, his "victory" over Revan always felt incomplete. He mentions it during the Leviathan confrontation. Indeed, he did not defeat Revan at the height of Revan's power, but when he was weakened by a Jedi strike team. That other Sith questioned these circumstances is, again, only natural.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

decline started with Mass Effect, Witcher and Dragon Age

Jade Empire actually.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

KotOR 2 > MotB >>> KotOR >>>>>> rest of NwN franchise

This post brought to you by the association of story focused homosexuals.

 

[Kainan]

I tried Kotor 1 the other day and at the start you have two dialogue options that lead to the same outcome? I kept saying how i wont go after Bastila but ended up saying okay bc I couldn't say anything else.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I tried Kotor 1 the other day and at the start you have two dialogue options that lead to the same outcome? I kept saying how i wont go after Bastila but ended up saying okay bc I couldn't say anything else.

Going after her is part of the main plot.

 

[Radiane]

Star Wars is just fairy tales for (so called) grown ups. Pfff. Very cringeworthy. Also, don´t forget that the aliens who made this like to milk your hard earned cash. Pure Fail on your side to fall in for that. Besides, the Kotor games are overrated. And no, I won´t read your wall of texts. Better play Avernum next time.

 

[whydoibother]

Bioware games were always at best mediocre where NWN1 was terrible and KOTOR even worse with the steady downhill decline of overrated trash into the bottom of the dumpster. Even BG1 is overrated and BG2 is even more highly overrated.

Contrarian history revisionism. "Bioware devs are being gay on Twitter in 2020, therefore Baldur's Gate was bad hurrr durrr"

 

[Lagole Gon]

I said it already and I will say it again.
KotOR is not the worst game ever. But it might be the most wicked horseman of decline in the history of cRPGs.
Think about it.

And if you still don't see it, buy yourself a fuckin' guide dog.

 

[Barbie]

KOTOR is a game that is not meant to be dissected and disseminated. It is a game meant to be enjoyed for what it is and not for any brilliance, or lack thereof, nor for a thesis to be written about it. It is not a deep game, it is meant to be a timesink of a few days. It is not a game that you are supposed to play again and again, that one is on you. Of course it won't be difficult for you after 40 runs, it's a game aimed as a feel good nostalgia to the OT after the prequel shitshow.

Of course the characters feel shallow and terrible. You are trying to find nuance in a game that was aimed to appeal to the simpler times. A game that is aimed for 13 year Olds to enjoy as well. It is your own fault for being this butthurt at a game that you have invested too much emotion and time in. The game is simple and does great at what it aims at, being a simple feel good throwback. Malak is a decent villain for what he is, storyfag explained this already in a good way so no reason for me to address this more.


Also, Bastila acts like a petulant teenager you say? She is supposed to be 18 or so, she IS A petulant teenager. You seem upset that you put too much value and weight to a game that never delivered the value you assigned to it, and now you are upset it was exactly what it aimed to be and not what you decided it should be.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Spot on take, Barbie. Would also say that this applies to BG1.

 

[Harthwain]

Of course the characters feel shallow and terrible. You are trying to find nuance in a game that was aimed to appeal to the simpler times.

Except we have KotOR 2 for contrast. And this shows exactly the difference between Obsidian and BioWare at the time (and the same goes for Fallout 3 vs Fallout: New Vegas).

Malak is a decent villain for what he is

Nah. Malak is shit. Even if you want to justify him with "Star Wars universe is supposed to be like this" you have to look at Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine to see the huge difference. Just see The Force Unleashed, if you want to see a more contemporary attempt and not the one straight up from the Original Trilogy. Then you also have Darth Malgus - another really good take on a competent Sith Lord.

 

[Barbie]

Of course the characters feel shallow and terrible. You are trying to find nuance in a game that was aimed to appeal to the simpler times.

Except we have KotOR 2 for contrast. And this shows exactly the difference between Obsidian and BioWare at the time (and the same goes for Fallout 3 vs Fallout: New Vegas).

Malak is a decent villain for what he is

Nah. Malak is shit. Even if you want to justify him with "Star Wars universe is supposed to be like this" you have to look at Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine to see the huge difference. Just see The Force Unleashed, if you want to see a more contemporary attempt and not the one straight up from the Original Trilogy. Then you also have Darth Malgus - another really good take on a competent Sith Lord.

KOTOR 2 does not aim to do what KOTOR 1 does. That is what you are missing here, BioWare wanted to make a simple feelgood game to make people feel better after the prequels. People's main criticism for the prequels was that they were too convoluted with character arcs being referred to that did not exist and plot setups that went absolutely nowhere. Ask yourself, what was the plot of the prequels? The answer is that there is no clear plot setup, tension nor payoff. There are just disjointed scenes that are scrambled together to a barely narrative "movie".

KOTOR aimed out to remedy what people hated about the prequels and wanted to appeal to nostalgia. KOTOR has a simple plot with a setup, arc and payoff. Malak is a cartoon villain in a way, he is setup as an intimidating villain at first but in the end he is nothing but a sniveling bully. He is the embodiment of a 13 year old nerds school yard bully. We all know how this ties into the target audience, i.e. any Star Wars fan of the era. KOTOR 2 was aimed to dissect Star Wars, of course it will be more critical and deeper. Obsidian was not setting out to do a Star Wars game in a way, they had ideas and plots that they tied into Star Wars. I personally prefer KOTOR 2, but I also think it has a totally different target audience than KOTOR 1.

 

[Pink Eye]

Bioware games were always at best mediocre where NWN1 was terrible and KOTOR even worse with the steady downhill decline of overrated trash into the bottom of the dumpster. Even BG1 is overrated and BG2 is even more highly overrated.

Contrarian history revisionism. "Bioware devs are being gay on Twitter in 2020, therefore Baldur's Gate was bad hurrr durrr"

He's right though. Bioware's writing is garbage. Go back and play their gay Mass Effect games. Even Baldur's Gate is silly too.

 

[luj1]

Of course the characters feel shallow and terrible. You are trying to find nuance in a game that was aimed to appeal to the simpler times.

Except we have KotOR 2 for contrast. And this shows exactly the difference between Obsidian and BioWare at the time (and the same goes for Fallout 3 vs Fallout: New Vegas).

Malak is a decent villain for what he is

Nah. Malak is shit. Even if you want to justify him with "Star Wars universe is supposed to be like this" you have to look at Darth Vader and Emperor Palpatine to see the huge difference. Just see The Force Unleashed, if you want to see a more contemporary attempt and not the one straight up from the Original Trilogy. Then you also have Darth Malgus - another really good take on a competent Sith Lord.

Fallout New Vegas is a turd

and Obsidian is a turd

their only good game was KotOR 2

 

[FriendlyMerchant]

Bioware games were always at best mediocre where NWN1 was terrible and KOTOR even worse with the steady downhill decline of overrated trash into the bottom of the dumpster. Even BG1 is overrated and BG2 is even more highly overrated.

Contrarian history revisionism. "Bioware devs are being gay on Twitter in 2020, therefore Baldur's Gate was bad hurrr durrr"

When did I bring up devs being gay? But for reference, they were pretty gay at least at the point of Trash Effect. BG1 was mediocre but enjoyable. BG2 was bad as a direct downgrade of BG1. NWN was terrible. And everything continued further downhill with KOTOR and Trash Effect.

 

[Baxander]

Still better than Grimoire.

 

[Kainan]

I tried Kotor 1 the other day and at the start you have two dialogue options that lead to the same outcome? I kept saying how i wont go after Bastila but ended up saying okay bc I couldn't say anything else.

Going after her is part of the main plot.

Why give me the option to say no then? Ok for some flavor but still it's kind of dumb.

 

[Jvegi]

Why give me the option to say no then? Ok for some flavor but still it's kind of dumb.

Have you like played a game ever before?

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

BioWare wanted to make a simple feelgood game to make people feel better after the prequels.

Lol, it's because the prequels were doing gangbusters at the time that KotOR even exists. Bioware did not make it because "OT only" fags needed copium.
The plot of the prequels is Palpatine's rise to power and Anakin's fall to the dark side. It's easily tracked over the course of the three films. It isn't complicated.

 

[KörangarTheMighty]

Why give me the option to say no then? Ok for some flavor but still it's kind of dumb.

I would like to live in a world where retarded-evil players get a game over screen within the first 5 minutes of the game because they attempted desertion while completely naked and unarmed after they ignored the sound advice of the fully armed and armored soldier standing in front of them.

 

[Ivan]

I fell out of love with KOTOR​

good

 

[Storyfag]

Star Wars is just fairy tales

Yeah, no shit? What gave it away? "A long time ago, far, far away"? Princess in distress? Black knight? And the Death Star fulfills the role of a dragon.