Star Wars Why I fell out of love with KOTOR

[Risewild]

I've been lurking in my thread and others for a few weeks now just to get a feel for this place. I definitely expected the TL;DR responses but I didn't really expect all the rest. Is it normal here for people to go on weird basically off topic shitflinging duels? Or to just completely ignore what's in the OP and drop your own opinion about the topic?

Yes, it's normal.

Welcome to the Codex.

 

[HeatEXTEND]

just completely ignore what's in the OP

The stuff in OP is generally accepted fact (KOTOR's strength if any lies in it's seasoning, not the meat/potato) and posters gonna post so there you go.
Post pics of Bastilla body pillow.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I like kotor

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Kreia is a conservative

lol what

 

[DalekFlay]

lol what

"Are you really helping that person by handing them something, teach a man to fish instead" is a conservative principle, last I checked. Half her rants are about such things.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

lol what

"Are you really helping that person by handing them something, teach a man to fish instead" is a conservative principle, last I checked. Half her rants are about such things.

Her entire philosophy is about throwing away tradition.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

lol what

"Are you really helping that person by handing them something, teach a man to fish instead" is a conservative principle, last I checked. Half her rants are about such things.

If you don't help the man she is also unhappy and belittles you for being cruel.

 

[Harry Easter]

If you don't help the man she is also unhappy and belittles you for being cruel.

She's never satisfied, no matter what you do ... like any real mother.

 

[Nano]

If you don't help the man she is also unhappy and belittles you for being cruel.

Tried an evil playthrough once and she wasn't nearly as approving as I thought she might be. Bitch really just complains about everything.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

If you don't help the man she is also unhappy and belittles you for being cruel.

Tried an evil playthrough once and she wasn't nearly as approving as I thought she might be. Bitch really just complains about everything.

Her being your counterbalance is entirely within character though.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Bitch really just complains about everything.

She's merely being a contrarian because she's old and cranky.

 

[Nano]

Her being your counterbalance is entirely within character though.

Doesn't make her any less of an annoying bitch.

 

[Harry Easter]

She's merely being a contrarian because she's old and cranky.

Now I imagine her being like this, since she went to kindergarden.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

She's merely being a contrarian because she's old and cranky.

Now I imagine her being like this, since she went to kindergarden.

Guess the cranky is congenital.

 

[Harry Easter]

Guess the cranky is ccongenital.

Probably. She always gave me some "angry german grandma from bavaria" - vibes. Space German complaining is a thing now!

 

[DalekFlay]

If you don't help the man she is also unhappy and belittles you for being cruel.

Well this just further cements my opinion that she's an insanely over-hyped character then.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

If you don't help the man she is also unhappy and belittles you for being cruel.

Well this just further cements my opinion that she's an insanely over-hyped character then.

He has a kinda Socratic approach in her teaching. You know ,challenging people for the sole sake of philosophical inquiry.

I think she is more interested in why people do things they do and what the consequences are rather than if what they believe is true.

 

[Shadenuat]

I think she needs another editing pass and like whole game suffers from messed production - Atris was supposed to be main villain, but they changed it, and it shows in the flow of dialogue. There was even a redemption ark in game for Kreia, unused.
The dialogue where you can only be either goody or dumbevil is crap regardless of any subversion, and so is bluered meter. My guess that mca could have been cynical enough to force player into this choice to then belittle them and make a comment on bad dual good/evil choices in dialogues in such a way, including kotor1; but that approach is too cynical and takes away players freedom to make choices and I don't like it.

 

[JDR13]

I've never understood the love for KotOR to begin with. Take away the Star Wars trappings and it's an average game at best. Compared to Bioware's earlier stuff, it's undeniable decline.

The biggest problem is that it was designed around the hardware limitations of the original Xbox. Those limitations permeate every aspect of its design outside of the writing.

 

[DalekFlay]

He has a kinda Socratic approach in her teaching. You know ,challenging people for the sole sake of philosophical inquiry.

I think she is more interested in why people do things they do and what the consequences are rather than if what they believe is true.

I guess my reaction there was because challenging the player no matter what seems more simplistic than I expected. I'm not saying she's written poorly at all though. She's written very well, and your explanation is a good one. People just act like she's written so amazingly well it's worth playing an otherwise mediocre game for, and I don't think that's true.

 

[Jedi Master Radek]

He has a kinda Socratic approach in her teaching. You know ,challenging people for the sole sake of philosophical inquiry.

I think she is more interested in why people do things they do and what the consequences are rather than if what they believe is true.

I guess my reaction there was because challenging the player no matter what seems more simplistic than I expected. I'm not saying she's written poorly at all though. She's written very well, and your explanation is a good one. People just act like she's written so amazingly well it's worth playing an otherwise mediocre game for, and I don't think that's true.

I think that arguing if something is merely very good or amazing is meaningless, we are really far into field of subjectivity here. Using simplistic tactics like challenging player no matter what is not a problem in itself. Every good story consist of many simplistic elements that are just executed well.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

I've never understood the love for KotOR to begin with. Take away the Star Wars trappings and it's an average game at best. Compared to Bioware's earlier stuff, it's undeniable decline.

The biggest problem is that it was designed around the hardware limitations of the original Xbox. Those limitations permeate every aspect of its design outside of the writing.

star wars RPG naturally lends itself to having a lot of C&C by having to support both light side and dark side approaches
avellone's influence on KOTOR2(his hatred of a strict light side/dark side split, favor of a gray jedi) was good too, and it heavily influenced SWTOR writing e.g., one of the most highly rated class stories is the light-side sith warrior who is more like an honorable duty-bound knight or samurai

 

[Commissar Draco]

Yes the Jade Empire is more fun KOTOR game than Kotor is, more interesting setting, story, some karate and two hot waifus to romance, lost any interest in Star Wars after prequels really it always was a space opera for Kwan children with only very few things like Thrawn and Chiss or Fell Empire rearmament being above this carthoonish eighties Reagan rebels good empire bad morality. And now they scrapped legends and replaced it with utter poz, frack this game and setting, even Mandalore is now that great its just bit better than sequels are.

 

[laclongquan]

IF somebody could mod her face and her body into hotness then it would be fun to see how gamers' perception of her change~

 

[makashimaster2]

while a good amount of fair points are made to this game I do think you are unfair to it in some areas. this is mostly about the characters because I have not played the game in a while.
most of the companions have little impact on the main storyline but that is no reason to get rid of them. they still provide depth and interest to the game and the game is better for having them.
Jolee is kind of your mentor throughout the game. his stories offer a timeless perspective and make you think about the ways of the Jedi.
Juhani is kind of boring after Dantooine but is not awful by any standards.
also, they are two completely different characters, how the hell would you combine them?

did you forget about Zaalbars storyline on Kashyyyk? and the missions storyline on Tatooine? I like their storylines and they add to the star wars feel. what else do you want?
again combining them into Ban makes no sense because she has nothing in common with either of them.

As far as i know, Carth does not have PTSD. he has trust issues.

Bastila and Anakin are very different characters. Bastila followed the Jedi code and made a bad relationship with her parents while Anakin was an orphan who was reckless to a fault.
They do echo each other but that is the point. KOTOR still does its own thing and echoes the original trilogy but is much more creative and in-depth about it.

Malak is kind of a weak villain but i think that actually kind of works because of one reason.
he took your place.
Malak is a weak ass brute who stole your position and all your hard work. the fact he is kind of a mustache-twirling idiot kind of works because he took your place. it feels personal that he is doing a worse job than you and stabbed you in the back. are you really going to let this impatient asshole take all your stuff and do it worse. no you do not. there is also the fact you are entirely responsible for his fall to the dark side. he is a brutish bastard but he is your brutish bastard

KOTOR is a good game that got many people into RPGs. it was also one of the forerunners of the classic Bioware RPGs. Of course, it has problems but it truly left its mark on the RPG industry. its stories parallel's the films but it does it in its own way. it adds depth to the Jedi and the Sith and adds a lot of smaller stories that are completely their own. it is clunky and has some major problems but overall its a great RPG.

If you played it a million times it must be doing something right. however I believe if you play something for too long you will burn out on it and as you grow your tastes change. it might just not be for you anymore and that is fine.
I still love Kotor for how it expanded on the star wars universe and added an epic story that reminded me of the original trilogy but still did its own thing. I actually might replay it with your review in mind and see how it holds up to scrutiny. i shall see if you have a point or two.