Why is Gothic series so culty?

[Nikanuur]

I started with Gothic 3, actually. Thought it was a nice game but it was too buggy to finish and decided to try G2. The difference was fucking enormous. Completely shocked at how better it was, I finished G2 and went to play the OG one, which was easier to get used to after G2. And again, the difference in worlbuilding and questing was huge from G3. There is absolutely zero chance that I will ever again call G3 a "nice game" or attempt to play it again.

If you can't tell why first two were better, that's your problem. However, don't expect others to take you seriously.

It's not a problem. It all boils down to the paradigma of knights who say Ni! Ni! eky, eky, eky, ta peng! Sadly, they will never understand it, so...

 

[Laz Sundays]

I started with Gothic 3, actually. Thought it was a nice game but it was too buggy to finish and decided to try G2. The difference was fucking enormous. Completely shocked at how better it was, I finished G2 and went to play the OG one, which was easier to get used to after G2. And again, the difference in worlbuilding and questing was huge from G3. There is absolutely zero chance that I will ever again call G3 a "nice game" or attempt to play it again.

If you can't tell why first two were better, that's your problem. However, don't expect others to take you seriously.

It's not a problem. It all boils down to the paradigma of knights who say Ni! Ni! eky, eky, eky, ta peng! Sadly, they will never understand it, so...

Noone cares, Mr Python. It's not an illusionary spell that we're under, it's common sense. Catering became the norm, world's gone to hell. Simulations were supposed to teach, not pander. If you can't break the spell someone else will so all is good.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

G3 was PB biting off way more than they could chew. The map was enormous compared to previous games and it was obvious they couldn't handle it, hence the shit, low-effort content strewn about, the whole "liberation" questline that kinda went nowhere and was scuffed as hell, vast stretches of landscape devoid of anything interesting, and the obviously rushed aspects of the game. PB reached for the stars only to fall on its face and never recover. I respect the ambition, at least. Had they succeeded to deliver G2-level quality at the scale they attempted, it'd have been the greatest RPG ever made.

"If they just changed the design possibly for every part of the game it would b3 amazing"

You're giving them way too much credit. Their ambition for creating such a large world did not have an effect on the following:

1. Retconning essentially every piece or Lore that existed in the setting

2. Pop up tutorials from the get go & immersion breaking dialogue/journal ("Your friend like to hang out near the beach. Go find your friend at the beach!")

3. Loot. Just loot. At least hand place something, like behind special, unique enemies.

I'm already bored and don't want to keep going, but you get the point. Things that were horribly implemented due to lack of time would still be shit even if they did it well.

 

[thesecret1]

G3 was PB biting off way more than they could chew. The map was enormous compared to previous games and it was obvious they couldn't handle it, hence the shit, low-effort content strewn about, the whole "liberation" questline that kinda went nowhere and was scuffed as hell, vast stretches of landscape devoid of anything interesting, and the obviously rushed aspects of the game. PB reached for the stars only to fall on its face and never recover. I respect the ambition, at least. Had they succeeded to deliver G2-level quality at the scale they attempted, it'd have been the greatest RPG ever made.

"If they just changed the design possibly for every part of the game it would b3 amazing"

You're giving them way too much credit. Their ambition for creating such a large world did not have an effect on the following:

1. Retconning essentially every piece or Lore that existed in the setting

2. Pop up tutorials from the get go & immersion breaking dialogue/journal ("Your friend like to hang out near the beach. Go find your friend at the beach!")

3. Loot. Just loot. At least hand place something, like behind special, unique enemies.

I'm already bored and don't want to keep going, but you get the point. Things that were horribly implemented due to lack of time would still be shit even if they did it well.

Eh, I think even those things may have been done due to time constraints. No time create interesting encounters, no time to design a more natural way for quest hooks, Lore just shat together in a hurry to conform to whatever was needed at the moment... Content is usually created very late in the dev cycle, when corners are being cut on a mass scale and when management is slowly starting to panic. I'd pin it on ineptitude with other games, but there's few games out there as obviously rushed as G3 - it's especially noticeable if you go to lands beyond Myrtana, with empty as fuck deserts with garbage quests, or the northern wastes that are basically just a couple corridors filled with tons of trashmobs.

 

[Skinwalker]

The first two did a lot of things right, that made up for the horrid controls and wooden voice acting and writing.

After that, who knows. Gothic 3 was a crime against humanity on par with Oblivion, and everything since has been a tired and failed attempt to recreate the magic of the first two Gothics (meaningless title, btw).

Surprised Pirania Bytes made it as long as it did.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

I haven't been able to put into words why I think Gothic voice acting is great (if we're referring to the English one which is "dodgy"). There are 1/2 instances of some really bad voice acting, stuff I could do better in, but it does what a video game needs to do imo. I don't know, I can't put it into words.

Eh, I think even those things may have been done due to time constraints. No time create interesting encounters, no time to design a more natural way for quest hooks, Lore just shat together in a hurry to conform to whatever was needed at the moment... Content is usually created very late in the dev cycle, when corners are being cut on a mass scale and when management is slowly starting to panic. I'd pin it on ineptitude with other games, but there's few games out there as obviously rushed as G3 - it's especially noticeable if you go to lands beyond Myrtana, with empty as fuck deserts with garbage quests, or the northern wastes that are basically just a couple corridors filled with tons of trashmobs.

I can't give them participation points for trying something ambitious and failing miserably because they did nothing good, it shows they had no idea what they're doing. If it was like Troika games or early Obsidian, there's some great stuff there despite being rushed and/or being a mess. Gothic 3 is none of that so the time constraints mean nothing to me when not only was stuff not improved, everything, down to every element of what makes a good RPG, was destroyed (the failure compounded by the existence of Gothic 1/2, I don't understand how you fail this fucking bad without being rotten to the core). Even being rushed is not an excuse for every last thing being a failure.

 

[Nikanuur]

Anyway, that thing with Essen was too dark a humor for the general audience, I suppose.

Obviously, Gothic series is so culty because of its freedom of choice, reactivity, several worth of playthroughs, clumsy but still somehow awesome combat, exploration without precedence, and gritty, believable atmosphere.
People gladly forgive the game some shortcomings if its heart is in the right place. Gothics have the latter in abundance.

 

[Fargus]

Obviously, Gothic series is so culty because of its freedom of choice, reactivity, several worth of playthroughs, clumsy but still somehow awesome combat, exploration without precedence, and gritty, believable atmosphere.
People gladly forgive the game some shortcomings if its heart is in the right place. Gothics have the latter in abundance.

You're right. But i would add that one of the main reasons why these games are so great is tough but fair progression and it's very rewarding. Not to mention the handcrafted nature of the game.

 

[thesecret1]

I like that each point of XP is meaningful and each enemy unique (since there's no enemy respawn) and especially that you really feel the progression. No matter what you invest you skill points in, you can tell the difference

 

[adddeed]

To me Gothic and Risen series have the best dialogue and voice acting ive come accross in an RPG. Not pretentious, down to earth, vulgar, to the point. Often hilarious.
They have the best exploration in an RPG ive played, best progression, best designed worlds.
The quests are often intertwined. No useless loot and endless item junk. No bloat anywhere. Compact yet diverse world full of places, nooks and crannies.
World is believable, NPCs live their own lives, lots of nice details as prevoiusly metioned (pickpeting dialogues, training dialogues, animations).
Enemies all behave differently, attacks, patterns, they're just fun to fight against.
And lots more.
So i still replay these because no other RPG is like them.

 

[AshenNedra]

it's just a long stroll through stereotypes that really aren't borne out by looking at tastes in American culture.

Stereotypes are almost always anchored in reality, those that aren't don't ring true and therefore can't survive.

America is a big place, you can find p. much everything in some quantity there, even smart and tasteful people, but for every Breaking Bad or The Wire there are oodles of brain-destroying reality shows, retardaloozas like Jerry Springer, soap operas, televangelist shows and monster truck rallies.

In comparison, I'm sure not everything produced by the BBC or Dutch, French, German or Swedish TVs is brilliant but it'd be completely unthinkable to find such profound retardery there.

One of the best examples illustrating the difference between a typical Yuro and Kwa TV production is Gordon Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares, the British vs. the US version. The former is smart, funny, authentic and full of moving, deeply human stories, while the US version is loud, stupid, showy and plastic with "drama" background music.

I'm French and you are profoundly wrong about France.

The quality of films and TV - both of which are heavily subsidized and rotten by nepotism - is abysmal.

Contemporary literature is mostly navel-gazing autofiction which mainly consists of reminiscence about childhood of the bourgeoisie and guilt over the Holocaust.

We haven't had a great author since Céline and all writers struggle under its legacy. I haven't been able to find ONE contemporary single book I liked in maybe 15 years. I'm an avid reader so I mainly read in English now.

You are talking about a romanticized past era, my friend. Our historical art and heritage is great but we are in full blown decadence.

Some counter-examples for the sake of completeness that you could look up in the unlikely event you'd be interested: Jabkowski made one great fantasy book, Nekotopia is an interesting book, and some comics and animes are genuinely well-made.

 

[AshenNedra]

I like that each point of XP is meaningful and each enemy unique (since there's no enemy respawn) and especially that you really feel the progression. No matter what you invest you skill points in, you can tell the difference

And the armor! You had to work for it and it made a real difference. Really memorable.
I so despise bad itemization and itemization that is disconnected from the story.

 

[AshenNedra]

G3 was PB biting off way more than they could chew. The map was enormous compared to previous games and it was obvious they couldn't handle it, hence the shit, low-effort content strewn about, the whole "liberation" questline that kinda went nowhere and was scuffed as hell, vast stretches of landscape devoid of anything interesting, and the obviously rushed aspects of the game. PB reached for the stars only to fall on its face and never recover. I respect the ambition, at least. Had they succeeded to deliver G2-level quality at the scale they attempted, it'd have been the greatest RPG ever made.

"If they just changed the design possibly for every part of the game it would b3 amazing"

You're giving them way too much credit. Their ambition for creating such a large world did not have an effect on the following:

1. Retconning essentially every piece or Lore that existed in the setting

2. Pop up tutorials from the get go & immersion breaking dialogue/journal ("Your friend like to hang out near the beach. Go find your friend at the beach!")

3. Loot. Just loot. At least hand place something, like behind special, unique enemies.

I'm already bored and don't want to keep going, but you get the point. Things that were horribly implemented due to lack of time would still be shit even if they did it well.

Eh, I think even those things may have been done due to time constraints. No time create interesting encounters, no time to design a more natural way for quest hooks, Lore just shat together in a hurry to conform to whatever was needed at the moment... Content is usually created very late in the dev cycle, when corners are being cut on a mass scale and when management is slowly starting to panic. I'd pin it on ineptitude with other games, but there's few games out there as obviously rushed as G3 - it's especially noticeable if you go to lands beyond Myrtana, with empty as fuck deserts with garbage quests, or the northern wastes that are basically just a couple corridors filled with tons of trashmobs.

I agree.
Nevertheless, with the community patch, I think I didn't mind G3.Decline it surely was but it was an OK open-world game that I vastly preferred to Oblivion, for example.
The worst thing were the unbeatable wolves pre-patch if I recall correctly. Stun-lock to death is not fun.

 

[cvv]

You are talking about a romanticized past era, my friend. Our historical art and heritage is great but we are in full blown decadence.

Well good to know, seems the rot is spreading.

I just remember my childhood, growing up behind the Iron Curtain in Czechoslovakia. We rarely had any western movies or shows and most of what we did get was French movies with Belmondo, Delon, Richard, de Funes, Gabin etc. I'm literally breast-fed on this shit, everybody here knows and loves Fantomas or The Cop from Saint-Tropez. Oh well...

 

[Harthwain]

I'm literally breast-fed on this shit, everybody here knows and loves Fantomas or The Cop from Saint-Tropez.

Who doesn't know or love The Cop from Saint-Tropez? Louis de Funes was one the few actors I knew by name (which is a high praise, coming from me).

 

[AshenNedra]

You are talking about a romanticized past era, my friend. Our historical art and heritage is great but we are in full blown decadence.

Well good to know, seems the rot is spreading.

I just remember my childhood, growing up behind the Iron Curtain in Czechoslovakia. We rarely had any western movies or shows and most of what we did get was French movies with Belmondo, Delon, Richard, de Funes, Gabin etc. I'm literally breast-fed on this shit, everybody here knows and loves Fantomas or The Cop from Saint-Tropez. Oh well...

Yeah, it's really sad. I've been depressed for years about it.

The film industry is especially egregious now. The old movie you referred too are viewed much the same way by a lot of young people and middle-aged ones: nostalgia for a better past. Plus all the Audiard films, e.g."les Tontons Flingueurs".

Most people consume American products and don't think much about it.

The rot is indeed spreading.

I know I have somewhat of a political bias towards Americans since the work experience that allowed me to really know them, was with the elite ones -top 1%- and that was 10+ years ago.

I've never spend more than 6 months in the US ; and that was in NY, whilst working intense hours and partying hard, so I don't really know the common American people.

I don't trust online discussion to get a real sense of a people or how far the current rotten Zeigeist reflects the views of the common man, or are simply pushed by journalists, and people in power.

Therefore, I couldn't tell if an average American person is dumber, more apathetic, or has worse taste than an average French one.

 

[AshenNedra]

I'm literally breast-fed on this shit, everybody here knows and loves Fantomas or The Cop from Saint-Tropez.

Who doesn't know or love The Cop from Saint-Tropez? Louis de Funes was one the few actors I knew by name (which is a high praise, coming from me).

You should try films with Fernandel or Bourvil if you love de Funes. They were the three great comedic actors of the 50s and 60s.

 

[cvv]

I'm literally breast-fed on this shit, everybody here knows and loves Fantomas or The Cop from Saint-Tropez.

Who doesn't know or love The Cop from Saint-Tropez? Louis de Funes was one the few actors I knew by name (which is a high praise, coming from me).

You should try films with Fernandel or Bourvil if you love de Funes. They were the three great comedic actors of the 50s and 60s.

I know Bourvil from "Don't Look Now" (no idea how they came up with the English title) and of course The Longest Day. He is great but de Funes is the ultimate comedy icon over here, has been for decades. I'm told Funes' films are WAY more popular here than in France and I can easily believe it.

 

[EdinFla]

I played all three of the PB creations more times than I care to count.

I think what I found attractive was that they sorta treated the player as an adult. You get a quest. No big arrows pointing to the guy that you have to kill or whatever. You can pull up the dialogue that starts the quest but that isn't terribly helpful. You are on your own, ike real life.

I also like the fact that at the beginning at least, money actually means something. You want armor, you gotta save. Also the fact the they don't fool around with weight limits. It is game, as opposed to process, oriented.

I found the voice acting fun. It actually sounds like real folks (the English version at least). Combat? after 15 minutes it's second nature.

I like the medieval look and feel of the towns. Very German it seemed to me.

I just wish Mud made an appearance in G2 and G3

There are things I'd change. I'd like it if, after you wipe out all the orcs around the old camp, that people would sorta recognize your accomplishment. More recursive I think you might term it.

I am happy you don't choose hairstyles and race and pronouns. That is window dressing crap IMHO.

Anyhoo, thats my 2p.

 

[EdinFla]

Let me add that I also like the modding. I have been fooling around with reworks and texture packs and so on for years. That is a real plus.

Also ... I find the landscapes very attractive. The faces are a bit dodgy but in the scheme of thing that isn't a biggie.

 

[Ba'al]

I think that the reason the voice acting works is because of the dialogue. Yes, there are some instances where the acting is so bad it's bad (getting the first focus stone in Gothic 1, for example), but most of it works very well because the dialogue is very to the point. The voice acting even does a good job of conveying what the character is like, something the very crude animations cannot do. It's a bit cartoonish, sure, but an npc that knows thief skills is gonna sound sly, someone you can trick is gonna sound like a doofus etc.

They even manage to pull off some jokes, one of my favourites being this very simple snarky response that really shouldn't work, but it does:
You're stopped by a guard on watch:
"Hey, you!"
"Who, me?"
"No, your grandmother."

My absolute favourite joke might be unintentional in how it turned out: the setup is the same - a guard stops you and offers you help, for a price of course. If you turn his help down he gets passive aggressive, telling you "Have a nice death!" and turning around. What makes this encounter somewhat unique is that the guard ends the dialogue, not you, making this an interesting way of using game mechanics (the way initiating and ending conversations usually happens) to tell you the guard is done with you.

 

[Laz Sundays]

Ah, French stuff.. Seeing Doberman as a teen and falling hard for Monica B.. Well, it's not even about quality although the quality was certainly there. It's a unique flavor, on par with Spanish, Italian, English or Western ones. There were many, many good things there. French stuff has been very present and memorable in my life, Asterix&Obelix comics that I owned and loved plus their movies of all genres. I still derp about Vidocq and Le Pacte des loups. Great comedies too, and dramas, and really successful attempts at action and fantasy. Consistent musical wins, too. Amazing books over the years (if you skip fucking Zola, fucking cuck weakling). The French were very present and very welcome.

So I don't think that there's anything wrong with France in particular - this lack of good shit is a global phenomenon. Noone makes good shit anymore, nowhere. We've all declined.