Interview Why Morrowind sucked - the Douglas Goodall interview

[Roqua]

I went over the whole rpg thing a million times, no reason to do it again now for someone who is now finally able to play a role due to awesome weather effects and graphics (something pen and paper rpgs dont have but manage to somehow still allow the players to play a role everytime).

So bethesda's has how much working capital? How much did obnlivian take? Is it all financed in house? No, they run on debt like every business. If oblivion sells well they can negotiate better terms for debt, maybe even work on more titles, to acrue more debt, and chase economic wealth for its owners, as all business' do (besides non-profits who just chase wealth for the executives). Its called business, you should learn about it. Trokia is a good example of what happens when you have no clout in terms of debt negotiations and you don't gear your games towards getting good reviews from the mega-awesome sites, and in turn don't make the sales to get more debt to make more games to make more sales.

 

[Roqua]

Double post again. Everytime I post I get an error message and get a double post.

 

[obediah]

Don't blaim bethesda for making games the reviewers, and by contrast the gamers, will like and will sell well. Blaim your buddies right here on this site for liking stupid fake-rpgs and destroying the genre. Blaim the lemmings who actually go to gamespy and those other sites that think kotor and nwn are TB games, and there are no stealth options in H&S, and people dissapear. Blaim yourselves for not supporting the games you should making sure no rpgs will ever be made again by a big dev. Don't blaim the guys trying to make as much people happy as possible by making a fake rpg that most "rpg" fans will like far better than a real rpg. You're the ones that favor graphics over content, buy "action-rpgs" over real ones, and created this situation. You made your fucking bed, now lay in it bitches.

p.s. stop being gay, queers.

I imagine you delivering this speech ala Patton and it brings a tear to my eye and has me ready to get on the warpath.

Unfortunately, it is complete and utter bullshit. The issue has nothing to do with fans abandoning real RPGS, and everything to do with video games growing beyond a niche market. Bethesda wants to make big, cutting edge games, and unless you can charge $300 or convice everyone to buy 6 copies you aren't going to do that with the hard core RPG audience. My only beef with them is they insist on the PR doublespeak bullshit instead of just saying "You are no longer our target audience. Thanks for your earlier patronage."

 

[Roqua]

So, bethesda shouldn't try and do as well as possible? Can't do that and sell to a niche market. A niche market that is inflated by people who say they like rpgs, but are really action game fans. Is hammer and sickle not getting slammed by the big sites? Is this hurting their sales? Yes or no?

Bethesda has a fiscal responsibility to do as well as possible, and marketing to the three fans of crpgs isn't very fiscally responsible. Again, reap what you sow, bitches. If you support this shit you'll get this shit. Just admit you like this shit.

Am I getting Oblivion? Hell no. I like rpgs. Is 99% of the people bitching uselessly about oblivion getting it? Yes. They are supporting that which they supposedly do not like. Makes sense huh? But they sad thing is, they'll love it. Dumbed down or not, Oblivion is going to get the rpg of the year awards next year. Thats how it is.

Am I mad at bethesda for ruining, in my opinion, the ES series (which peaked at daggerfall)? No. I am mad at the "rpg" community that made it so bethesda had to ruin the ES series in order to stay in business. Wow, thats whacky, putting blaim and responsibility onto those who are at fault.

 

[Camrin]

I went over the whole rpg thing a million times, no reason to do it again now for someone who is now finally able to play a role due to awesome weather effects and graphics (something pen and paper rpgs dont have but manage to somehow still allow the players to play a role everytime)..

Right, but were talking about computer rpgs. No about paper ones. When concerning the computer rpgs it was clear from the start that they can not substitute your imagination, and the direction of crpgs was obvious from the start --> if they can't imitate GM, human's imagination, they'll try to partially overcome it with graphic which'll become more superior and superior.

So bethesda's has how much working capital? How much did obnlivian take? Is it all financed in house? No, they run on debt like every business. If oblivion sells well they can negotiate better terms for debt, maybe even work on more titles, to acrue more debt, and chase economic wealth for its owners, as all business' do (besides non-profits who just chase wealth for the executives). Its called business, you should learn about it. Trokia is a good example of what happens when you have no clout in terms of debt negotiations and you don't gear your games towards getting good reviews from the mega-awesome sites, and in turn don't make the sales to get more debt to make more games to make more sales.

They are still in the game, aren't they? Making another crpg which is hailed "best rpg" of the year months long before it'll hit the stores. So they are wealthy enough for me. Not bankrupt at least. I don't know much about good/bad reviews or big review sites, because I don't read much reviews on the net. But from what I saw in Poland and one or two English language sites, Arcanum had very good reviews. But it didn't sell that great, did it? I dunno the story, was it because of the reviews? I'd rather say that Arcanum was too ambitious for most of "audience". And I'm not at all surprise. If it was a Tolkien-like universe, had some good gay hobbit characters and big bad sadistic orcs and more coloured, Baldur-like graphics it would sell better. Not for me, I love it, amazing, grim world which reminds me so much about WFRPG sessions Well, if I can brighten you up a bit: developers fall, great games remain. Fallout, Arcanum (althought fighting sucked a bit here, you must admit). We can still play them, forever and ever

 

[Roqua]

Camrin,

I don't know about arcanum's reviews as i was in the army and didn't read them or see them. I didn't even have the internet until 2001. I played through daggerfall and never even knew it was buggy or had a patch or what a patch was. I bought Fallout 2 before 1 because i never saw 1 and the back of 2 said you could be a pimp. Before the army I went to the gaming store and looked at the back of the boxes and picked from the multitude of real rpgs the one that looked the most interesting.

I have only had one friend who liked cumputer games in my life, and that was one of my sisters boyfriend's brother. But he liked command and conquer, Hexen, and warcraft and crap like that, stuff that doesn't do it for me. but he turned me onto privateer and JA and x-com. Games I would have never even looked at the back of because the cover didn't look interesting to my tastes (fantasy rpgs). He was a good guy though.

You don't have to brighten me up either; I'm not angry, I'm a prick. I went to warsaw after i got out of the army. it was a breath of fresh air after going through the countries where the guys are all touchy feely, huggy kissy. Pollocks seem to have a little testosterone. I really enjoyed how at every bar there were girls whose only job it was to light cigarettes and stand quietly by. Thats probably why you aren't that business savvy. Anyway, no one likes me, so no reason for you to be nice. It really steals my fire.

edit: I don't know exactly when Arcanum came out, or if I was in the army when it did. But I know it was before I got the internet because I never heard of it and got it because of the back. The good ol' pre-internet days of going and picking with no knowledge at all of what was going on or in development.

 

[bryce777]

Bethesda will be out of business in 5 years, blessedly. They have never sold all that well before morrowind, and the reason they have cash is due to a buyout.

Computer game sales just go down and down and down. Why? Because computer games suck more and more.

They are NOT the same as console games, and trying to make a generic 'video game' that appeals to console gamers is what has killed them. Plain and simple.

Orgin sold fucking great, until they sold out and put out crap games, and disappeared. Same with Interplay. Same with so many companies.

The market never really changes, just the monkeys in the suits change; they put out a game like toee that is half done then they cry out "See! No one likes RPGs or turnbased games. "

 

[obediah]

Am I getting Oblivion? Hell no. I like rpgs. Is 99% of the people bitching uselessly about oblivion getting it? Yes. They are supporting that which they supposedly do not like. Makes sense huh? But they sad thing is, they'll love it. Dumbed down or not, Oblivion is going to get the rpg of the year awards next year. Thats how it is.

How many people do you think there are bitching about Oblivion being dumbed down? It's not that many. If they all boycott Oblivion, they will affect Bethesda's bottom line about as much as I'm affecting the drug trade by refusing to do heroin. For every person that's played Daggerfall and wants it back, there are many x-boxers waiting to play the pretty new rpg-lite. I know 3-4 people that bought and played Morrowind that otherwise wouldn't touch an RPG, and would fall asleep out of boredom halfway through the first turn of any TB game.

You seem to think that if all of in the "rpg" community boycott oblivion, Bethesda will come crawling back to their roots. A more likely result would be that Oblivion still outsells morrowind, but x-box 360 sales dwarf PC sales and Bethesda makes all future releases 360 exclusives.

Am I mad at bethesda for ruining, in my opinion, the ES series (which peaked at daggerfall)? No. I am mad at the "rpg" community that made it so bethesda had to ruin the ES series in order to stay in business. Wow, thats whacky, putting blaim and responsibility onto those who are at fault.

I agree with you that bethesda isn't to blame, they're just making games for money . But I think those decisions were more influenced by the attraction of a different, larger audience rather than some betrayel by daggerfall fans.

 

[Camrin]

I didn't know Daggerfall was Buggerfall either, until I've read reviews in polish crpg magazines (which were in fact copies of reviews from UK and US magazines), all to my surprise.

Hey. Don't worry about being a prick. I'm a prick too (no, I'm not trying to pick you, there's still some ounces of testosterone in my blood or somewhere). In fact I've noticed this forum is different from other crpg forums because there's definitively more old pricks like me posting here. That's why I signed in. And they are quite rude and uncensored old pricks, which makes it kinda... more exotic.

So you've been to Warsaw, eh? Well, you've earned some karma points to distribute on my prick-characters charts. Dunno about chicks lighting cigarretes in bars, this must have been some exclusive, like High Heels Cat's Paw or something, because in some places you've got to have a good car outside and trademarked clothes on, otherwise the only cigarette you're going to light is your own. I'm more after a cheap working class places, when chicks are more hearthy (where they don't judge people looking at car and shoes). I'm still a student who doesnt want to get an army ticket (it's low paid and waste of time here, mainly because Polish army sucks, if you're more into Iraq campaign you maybe know stories about our soldiers' equipment). I go rarely to bars and clubs but when I do, chicks usually drink beer or bounce around, which isn't fun for me, cause I don't like modern dance, "don't touch just watch" thing.

But we're becoming more and more like Germans and Americans, I mean free market and everyone-must-be-liberated-oh-so-free and don't say a bad word about your neighbour. You know what, if I'm ever gonna marry I'm picking a Belarussian girl or any Eastern girl, even a muslim (now what a conservative prick I am). Why? Because our girls just don't have that blink in eye. I don't mean exotic, running around with long dress, husband-abiding women with face all covered with some scarf. I mean spirituality. Everyone's becoming so career obsessed in Warsaw, and serious chicks for life and for other things are hard to find.

Sorry for mumbling that all, slightly off topic, but you've started

Back to rpgs - I used to play a lot with my brothers in law, and with other friends since '93 (paper rpgs arrived very late to Poland). I had played crpg before, but I haven't got a clue what all role-playing stuff's about. Somewhere around 95, Daggerfall came and it became my favourite... until Fallout. I still think Fallout1 is probably the only game which is somewhere somehow "close" to art, cause it touched me deep. Years passed, I've grown up and my brothers grew up and it was about 3-4 years ago, when I played paper rpg for the last time. We were never 200% commited, hardcore role players or something, no candle lighting and dressing in knights, you know. All we needed were some other persons to make a session. I remeber playing in the bus, with no paper no pencil or dice, on a trip to Spain (so maybe from anpther point of view we were a
little hardcore).

But now, I'm old, too pricky to kick out doors of some rpg club and shout: "count me in". Most of them are youngsters out there, and that's not my kind of play (I remember my own begginings with rpg, I was like them: take all what's precious, kill everyone and fuck everything what's still warm [but only in imagination]).
Nowadays, I have less time, and more worries in general. No mates to play roles with, no time to prepare a session. But there's allways time for... Nuka Cola. Or a Morro session. Or Mound&Blade, or any other which'll feed my escapist's brain.

 

[Camrin]

I agree with you that bethesda isn't to blame, they're just making games for money . But I think those decisions were more influenced by the attraction of a different, larger audience rather than some betrayel by daggerfall fans.

Right, they're making this for money. But... which software developer isn't? There are some crpg fans that are doing on they own, but if they ever get an idea of "real rpg", they probably can also forget about big money.
Wasn't Interplay thinking of money when they did F1 or F2? Wasn't Bethesda thinking of money when they made Arena and Daggerfall (which had sold well enough, I remember guy in tv in 1996 or so saying they had 300.000 copies sold until then, so that's "encouraging" to say at least)?

I think they were thinking like: how to sell succesful and at the same time make something what we would like to play on our own. Fallout - if I can use it as an example for ambitious crpg - is very catchy. It was all so dirty, so uncensored, such freedom of choice, but you know, the universe wasn't that original, it wasn't so risky from financial point of view, more like a copy: Burntime, Wasteland, Boy and his dog, Mad Maxes, add this, mix that, you all know. Was Daggerfall more ambitious than Arena? It was much greater, that's for sure, and better graphics. I believe Oblivion can be a step forward comparing to Morrowind.
I guess that only comparing to today's standards, these old games can be seen as more "real" and ambitious rpgs. It's the same as with movies, less and less are good.
Once upon a time, developers were taking such risks. It seems insane from today's point of view: games like Darklands, Elviras, Twilight 2000, these original and unique universes, and also the ones we were speaking of before, we know it just won't ever happen again. No more risky business. Less and less games will be made for PCs, I agree with all that you said about shrinking rpg market and console audiences. But the PCs won't cease to exist. At least in my country, I don't see such a possibility in nearest 10 years. Average age of "receiver"/audience is decreasing, simpler things for simple minds, I agree, but...

Hey, but there are still great movies (although hard to get), and I'm sure that a great, REAL crpg that some of us wait for is gonna to jump out of the sea some day, like great movies do (at least for me, in that our American-oriented market). I believe it, because there are still pricky demanding audience that's big enough to see and buy it and make a decent deal for some fresh programmers (do you know that the biggest game comunity in Poland is Fallout community? and after how many years?).
I don't see something like "close to real" rpg will ever make big money. I'm happy that Oblivion will be the RPG of the year. You won't buy it, Roqua, and some others won't too, but I think in 5 years or so not only I will be remembering "good times when we were playing real rpg, Oblivion". Just in a way we talk about Daggerfall now.
Somehow I still have some faith. Part of it comes from lone-wolfs like GearHead designers, or Polish Fallout-inspired game whis is being made by fans - Forlorn World. Most of their "amateur" (non-financed) projects won't survive, will just disappear like mist. But the strongest, the best ones will survive.
The second thing which I kinda have faith in, are game- based editors, like TES Construction Set in Morrowind. If they'll still become better and better, there will be more fans making mods and more chances of critical hit: a mod that'll be more interesting, in terms of role playing, than the real game.

PS: Obediah, in fact there were lot of people among Polish gamers, and also few reviewers, that said they were nearly napping when playing Morro. So no matter what Roqua says, I will always regard it as an ambitious and demanding crpg

 

[Section8]

Maybe I'm romanticising the past, but there's been a complete paradigm shift in the way suits and devs interact. Back in the day, it seemed the suits were content to admit they knew nothing about this exciting new medium, but saw potential to make money, and ergo happily funded those who knew what they were doing.

Now, so much more, the suits are calling the shots and so we're getting games with the sole premise that money must be made. So yes, games such as Fallout wouldn't have been made without the backing of a commercial enterprise, but the funding took a backseat in the actual development, which is how things should be.

 

[Roqua]

I agree with you that bethesda isn't to blame, they're just making games for money . But I think those decisions were more influenced by the attraction of a different, larger audience rather than some betrayel by daggerfall fans.

I think we are talking about the same thing. If bethesda wants big contracts they need a big audeience to justify it. There just isn't the audience there to make a big-budget real rpg. They just wouldn't be able to get the debt.

But I also think most people here thing corps run off of cash. They don't. they run on debt. Money sitting around does nothing, the would buy bonds or reinvest the money. They get funded by accrueing debt to start new projects. It all counts as capital, but no company runs on profit. They run on debt. Profit helps them get better debt with better terms. A history of good decisions and profitable ventures means financers will see an investment in you as less risky and charge lower interest with better terms. All new projects get run through an alalysis, get assigned risk, and projected profitibility with wieghts, etc. Then there is the oppertunity cost (the second highest profitible venture the bedt could of went to). etc.

You need real numbers to do this. Projections are made with solid data. You can't try and get bedt by saying, "I know there is nothing to support this at all, and all the data you have says this venture is wicked risky, but I feel there is a larger market for real, heavy-rpgs, give me good terms and a lot of debt."

 

[Roqua]

So you've been to Warsaw, eh? Well, you've earned some karma points to distribute on my prick-characters charts. Dunno about chicks lighting cigarretes in bars, this must have been some exclusive, like High Heels Cat's Paw or something, because in some places you've got to have a good car outside and trademarked clothes on, otherwise the only cigarette you're going to light is your own. I'm more after a cheap working class places, when chicks are more hearthy (where they don't judge people looking at car and shoes).

This was at the end of 2000 and it was definitly at every bar i went to. How many people on average do you see behind a bar? In poland there was at least double what I'm used to, usually triple. I didn't have to wait and try and get the bartenders attention, there was someone actually trying to meet my needs before I had them. You guys in europe also usually have a coat check at every place. In Massachusetts (we get a lot of snow) we only have coat checks in fancy places.

And it seemed everything I ordered in Poland came with horse radish. I had a ball in poland though.

 

[Camrin]

This was at the end of 2000 and it was definitly at every bar i went to. How many people on average do you see behind a bar? In poland there was at least double what I'm used to, usually triple. I didn't have to wait and try and get the bartenders attention, there was someone actually trying to meet my needs before I had them. You guys in europe also usually have a coat check at every place. In Massachusetts (we get a lot of snow) we only have coat checks in fancy places.

And it seemed everything I ordered in Poland came with horse radish. I had a ball in poland though.

Hey. I've heard they add horse radish only in gay bars :shock: Joking here, mate :D
Well, we have quite a strong drinking tradition and not so many places to go to. Few are most popular, when the other places arent at all. I'm used to booze myself in those "other" bars, which are sometimes incredible, my fav one is say, 5x6 metres all claustrophobic, you can listen to tired voice of bartender and only one customer's personal problems But all in all, I must admit, Warsaw bars and club suck in general in most of the ways Can't compete with places of Cracov, Lublin, Poznań, or... my love for life Baligrod. Oh, Baligrod, fountain of me dreams...

My opinion is every place when there is any kind of check is shite and also costly, so I don't frequeant that kinda places. About 1998 we had a new subculture formed, called "dresiarze". Those are guys bit simililar to slavers from Fallout, bald & often taking steroids but dressed in some cool firm clothes, f.ex. adidas, and every unit has the newest trendy mobile - saying shortly. So they are in general rather pish when taken one on one, but when few of them will gather, they can make a mess, especially in club or bar. That's why such places often do SHOES check. And so there are places in Warsaw and other cities, when you can be welcomed with your adidas or killing new nikes and other places where doors will be shut before your nose. Now thats fun, eh?

 

[Elwro]

But we're becoming more and more like Germans and Americans, I mean free market and everyone-must-be-liberated-oh-so-free and don't say a bad word about your neighbour. You know what, if I'm ever gonna marry I'm picking a Belarussian girl or any Eastern girl, even a muslim (now what a conservative prick I am). Why? Because our girls just don't have that blink in eye. I don't mean exotic, running around with long dress, husband-abiding women with face all covered with some scarf. I mean spirituality. Everyone's becoming so career obsessed in Warsaw, and serious chicks for life and for other things are hard to find.

Maybe you should try visiting Cracow for a while? :D

 

[Camrin]

[quote="Elwro" ] Maybe you should try visiting Cracow for a while? :D[/quote]

I'd love to, sure. But what's keeping me here in Warsaw is a lot of cultural events and things going on (and I'm doing on art&culture field, you know), and I'm used to hanging at 2-3 best cinemas in Poland here. I like Cracov, it has a soul, Warsaw doesn't have one, seems to me like it's trying to be New York and St. Tropez (seen our palm tree?) at the same time, and it's too much of a caricature for my taste. And I can say that for sure, cause I've lived all my life here, and been to other places.

Now, this thread has turned from Elder Scrolls to some weird Polish bushes, haven't it?

 

[Vault Dweller]

I disagree with this. For a start, it's good to hear that Bethesda the company had nothing to do with the interview being removed. There's no evidence that the company, or any of its staff - Ken or Todd in particular, made any such request. That is to their credit.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... 201585&hl=

The moderator's stated reason for removing it is:

Linking to another forum that allows Potty Language to run rampant, isn't a good idea

What the fuck is that shit?

Edit: duh - I'm a bit slow tonite. I think I might just post the full text itself on that board and see what happens.

Edit 2: I really have too much time on my hands.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/inde ... pic=201890

I'm going to remove the interview out of respect both for Douglas and for others. It was taken from the Imperial Library for a reason, and no it isn't a "cover up", its an issue of sometimes people say things in the heat of the moment that they don't fully mean, and that they regret later. It seems there are ample backups around anyway.

Please respect this decision.
...
Reread my post. I said and for others. Deal.

 

[Jason]

Please do not disrespect the power and authority of Archie the Moderator. He is there for your safety and mine.

 

[Kuato]

For every person that's played Daggerfall and wants it back, there are many x-boxers waiting to play the pretty new rpg-lite.

when games get dumbed down too much they become niche games - the rpg lite /action lite game is a niche game ( see Jade Empire sales)

I beleive Morrowind sales and highly overated reviews were due to the lack of other games in the same genre for the xbox at the time, this will not be the case this time around if Lost Odyssey is released right before Oblivion ships, thats going to be some pretty major competition and if a turned based game like FFX has a niche audience broader than Halo or GTA I would be targeting the niche audience for my next rpg game
http://xbox360.ign.com/objects/731/731773.html

 

[Section8]

You need real numbers to do this. Projections are made with solid data. You can't try and get bedt by saying, "I know there is nothing to support this at all, and all the data you have says this venture is wicked risky, but I feel there is a larger market for real, heavy-rpgs, give me good terms and a lot of debt."

That may be true, but I don't see how "Let's make a mediocre imitation of something that's popular now, because it's sure to sell well after 18 months of development time!" is any better, and that seems to be the predominant attitude. You're also talking about a creative enterprise where making accurate predictions and projections is exceedingly difficult at best, and there's a great deal of scope for making false assumptions.

 

[Kuato]

You're also talking about a creative enterprise where making accurate predictions and projections is exceedingly difficult at best, and there's a great deal of scope for making false assumptions.

Tell me about it, if you only knew how much focus group testing goes on over all aspects of initial game concepting and proofing, and too a much larger degree how poor the focus group tests are organized and run and on top of that how insanely wrong the information gets interpreted and ultimately implimented. not only costing a fortune and bleeding budgets but also completely derailing projects off of false assumptions.

As far as I can tell the focus group testing only really serves as a scapegoat if the project does poorly.

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

I beleive Morrowind sales and highly overated reviews were due to the lack of other games in the same genre for the xbox at the time

That wouldn't explain the high review scores and sales numbers the PC version received. If the game had been a poorly reviewed flop on PC, you might have a point -- but neither is the case.

 

[Roqua]

For every person that's played Daggerfall and wants it back, there are many x-boxers waiting to play the pretty new rpg-lite.

when games get dumbed down too much they become niche games - the rpg lite /action lite game is a niche game ( see Jade Empire sales)

I beleive Morrowind sales and highly overated reviews were due to the lack of other games in the same genre for the xbox at the time, this will not be the case this time around if Lost Odyssey is released right before Oblivion ships, thats going to be some pretty major competition and if a turned based game like FFX has a niche audience broader than Halo or GTA I would be targeting the niche audience for my next rpg game
http://xbox360.ign.com/objects/731/731773.html

I know nothing about console japan rpgs, and haven't played an FF since NES. But what i do know is you can't compare x-box sales w/ ps2 sales straight up. X-box sold how many units world wide compared with ps2?

And was ff whatever stat heavy? When i say rpg, you seem to think console. I think pc. I think realms of arkania trilogy, buck rogers, FO 2, ToEE, darklands, wizardry, etc. I think spending 10 hours just creating a character in daggerfall, spending an hour taking a shit with a note pad with a manual trying to come up with a good party concept for Star Trail. I think of Prelude to Darkness, and Avernum.

Console rpgs have nothing for me (besides Fire Emblem) I want that after Hammer and Sickle.

Look at the reviews of Hammer and Sickle at the big game sites. What I think is an rpg and what the console crowd does are two different things. I am in a niche market. You are not. Games are being made and released for you all the time. My games are made in a cellar now.

When I say rpg we are not on the same page, never mind close to the same market.

That may be true, but I don't see how "Let's make a mediocre imitation of something that's popular now, because it's sure to sell well after 18 months of development time!" is any better, and that seems to be the predominant attitude. You're also talking about a creative enterprise where making accurate predictions and projections is exceedingly difficult at best, and there's a great deal of scope for making false assumptions.

No, I'm not talking about accurate predictions. I'm talking predictions. There is always risk. Experts don't know what people want. But there are trends, and models that can makes wieghts for risk.

A lot of venture capitalists look for high risk ventures so they can make a killing. And that killing will make up for all the failed ventures + some. Are you risk adverse?

The only way to see who is right or wrong is to see how well Oblivion sells. But we are talking taste and preferences, just as with movies, its always risky. A game can have all the right elements and just not be fun, like I hear EQ2 is. Or it can look good on paper, like SWG, and just not be good in reality, or so I hear. Or it can be accessable to everyone and take ALL markets into consideration, like WoW, and break records.

If you were going to try and get debt for an mmorpg, and you went in with radical, risky ideas, like permadeath, and shit like that, the chances of gaining anything is pretty low. And if you do get funded, the terms are going to highly favore the loaner and they will have more control.

Do you guys really think Trokia wanted to release buggy games? They had no clout so got shit contracts. I am willing to bet my life they had two choices, shit contract or no contract. And then there shit contracts made it so they were in a no contract situation. Look at ToEE. It was a test dummy for atari for d2d and yahoo games on demand. And it totally fucked up the cash flow. It had to of.

 

[Kuato]

I beleive Morrowind sales and highly overated reviews were due to the lack of other games in the same genre for the xbox at the time

That wouldn't explain the high review scores and sales numbers the PC version received. If the game had been a poorly reviewed flop on PC, you might have a point -- but neither is the case.

I guess that tells us something about about the state of PC rpgs at the time as well

 

[MrSmileyFaceDude]

I beleive Morrowind sales and highly overated reviews were due to the lack of other games in the same genre for the xbox at the time

That wouldn't explain the high review scores and sales numbers the PC version received. If the game had been a poorly reviewed flop on PC, you might have a point -- but neither is the case.

I guess that tells us something about about the state of PC rpgs at the time as well

Dungeon Siege, Never Winter Nights, Arx Fatalis, Gothic II, Asheron's Call 2, Divine Divinity, Heroes of Might & Magic IV, and Icewind Dale 2 are some of the other PC RPGs that were released the same year as Morrowind, FWIW.