Pathfinder Why Owlcat's Kingmaker Sucks, in Plain Language

[Daidre]

You still have GOG and EPIC to get banned from- The Trinity, as it were.

Honestly, GOG is too calm and quiet to be banned there. However, I'm sure that someone can pull it off.

And EGS does not has a forum to get banned on.

 

[Pink Eye]

Lol. I can't do that. I suffer from ADHD and get easily distracted and bored. One minute i'm doing one thing. The next I am doing another thing. Then I forget what I was doing originally. Then I get frustrated. Then I go back to playing Pathfinder. It's a cycle you see.

 

[Beggar]

Lol. I can't do that. I suffer from ADHD and get easily distracted and bored. One minute i'm doing one thing. The next I am doing another thing. Then I forget what I was doing originally. Then I get frustrated. Then I go back to playing Pathfinder. It's a cycle you see.

replace playing pathfinder to masturbating

 

[Pink Eye]

Lol. I can't do that. I suffer from ADHD and get easily distracted and bored. One minute i'm doing one thing. The next I am doing another thing. Then I forget what I was doing originally. Then I get frustrated. Then I go back to playing Pathfinder. It's a cycle you see.

replace playing pathfinder to masturbating

I go back to playing mastubating? What! That makes no sense.

 

[Verylittlefishes]

I've heard a lot of good things about the game and many times wanted to try it. Every time I stopped when seeing screenshots with generic fantasy cute portraits and colorful magic fireworks. Also as I saw in lp, writing is kinda teenage dumb (at least in Russian). But there is this fucking MCA goblin which supposed to be good...I don't know.

 

[Trashos]

Your mileage will vary with the companions, but they do have great character development throughout the game. I hated them in the beginning (and I do believe that the order in which we meet them is completely wrong), but most of them have grown on me. By now, I generally have trouble deciding who to leave out of the party. They also have Torment-esque finales in Chapter 6. But YMMV.

 

[The_Mask]

I've heard a lot of good things about the game and many times wanted to try it. Every time I stopped when seeing screenshots with generic fantasy cute portraits and colorful magic fireworks. Also as I saw in lp, writing is kinda teenage dumb (at least in Russian). But there is this fucking MCA goblin which supposed to be good...I don't know.

You should give it a shot, but be very wary of each dialogue option (right from the beginning of the game) and manually save each time a new chapter starts just to be sure.

Also either make your own lock opener OR whatever character you choose to have with you that has trickery, be sure to have it maxed.

And as far as your main char goes, I'd invest in Athletics, Mobility and Persuasion - minimum.

And take Blind Fight.



As far as Nok-Nok goes, he actually has direct *and* indirect story-telling to him, which really goes to show you how awesome MCA is.




Other than that, have fun.

 

[Pink Eye]

I've heard a lot of good things about the game and many times wanted to try it. Every time I stopped when seeing screenshots with generic fantasy cute portraits and colorful magic fireworks. Also as I saw in lp, writing is kinda teenage dumb (at least in Russian). But there is this fucking MCA goblin which supposed to be good...I don't know.

You'd never know if you don't play it yourself. It doesn't take an analyzer to realize the bias in the OP. The bias is made specifically to portray the game in a negative light. Which is fine, opinions and all. However, if you base your entire judgement off of an OP who has a history of trashing the game, then your perspective will be skewed. Ask yourself this, how is it that the game has 10k steam reviews? How is that some players in this thread have spent over 1k hours in the game? How is it the game is considered a financial success? If the game is as bad as the OP is letting on, then why do certain individuals in this thread love it so much?

Try the game, if you don't like it then refund. Steam has a 2 hour refund policy.

 

[Trashos]

As far as Nok-Nok goes, he actually has direct *and* indirect story-telling to him, which really goes to show you how awesome MCA is.

I think that all the companions have indirect story telling. It takes a while to see it, but take Ekun, for example:

Spoiler

Failed family protector gets saved and is protected by a dog. Ends up being the kingdom's fucking Warden.

Awesome stuff.

 

[ArchAngel]

You people are crazy, my Steam says I only got 1 221 hours in the game.

 

[Pink Eye]

I wish Desiderius still posted. I miss that guy so much. He's a legend.

 

[Grampy_Bone]

This is my favorite review from Steam: https://steamcommunity.com/app/640820/negativereviews/?browsefilter=toprated&snr=1_5_100010_

(this guy REALLY hates initiative)

I'm Chinese, but I'm too angry, so I have to use English and wish Owlcat can read it
Though TRPG never popular at China, i'm a faithful player(also as DM) of D&D PF COC and many other TRPG for many years
Here is the problem: I doubt Owlcat if finished alpha or beta test before
Because I'm now realize that the ridiculous balance IS NOT THE BIGGEST PROBLEM
Yes, now game is much imbalance ,but
I believe if Owlcat can rewrite their hard-level-adjustment , after realize that plus AC from 20 to 22 have differenet meaning for 3AB and 2AB , which actually reduce the hit rate 50% & 66.67% , they can easy to fix the balance
It just the game of number
See , as a vedio game, you won't find the imbalance ability combo at PF because Owlcat can easily ban them
I'm willing to give Owlcat more time to fix it
So,WHAT IS THE BIGGEST PROBLEM?

THE RIDICULOUS INITIATE SYSTEM!

I cant believe Owlcat make this to ruin whole battle system
That make this game A JOKE!

As a experienced and knowledgeable DM, I know how this system work, which many player that not played TRPG before cant understand easily,so let me explain

this game, have a global timer, which rule the round and turn of all your characters AND ENEMY
Every character, yours or enemy's, obey this rule: you can only do things at right time, except move
and the timer and the initiate system rules which time is right

BUT YOU WILL NEVER KNOW THE RIGHT TIME

I belive you often feel stuck, thats because you give the order at wrong time, so battle system make you stuck until initiate system say ok
So even the timer make just 6 seconds to 1 round, you will easily wait 8 seconds while you miss the right time.
The truth is: you miss the right time at first round, so you have to wait until the right time at next round
and here is the bad news: your enemy never make fault like this,because they are computer itself, they know the time!
It's really ridiculous to make player calculate time as computer
Did any test player tell Owlcat they were making a bad bad mistake?

IT MAKE ANY TACTICS MEANINGLESS

When I start a battle, I command my fighter move forward , absorb the damage, and the wizard, move right so he can use Burninghand without hurt fighter
What's the result?
Initiate system make wizard wait 8 seconds before he can cast the magic ,and my fighter must get more punch!

Also, when i use a bow and enemy use sword, of course i choose run between two shoot.
What's the result?
I have to wait 8 seconds before I make every shoot, which I just need to wait 6 second while standing
SO the truth is moving is meaningless, they can easily approach me if only I want shoot them

ITS RUIN EVERYTHING

You cant play a game which your effort will make things worse!
That's how you play the game i mean
You make the order, and your brilliant intelligence bring you the victory, that's how game work
You can't just DOING NOTHING because your order will make your character miss the right time and waste the whole round stand for the initiate!

I can't believe Owlcat make this!


and here is the bad news: your enemy never make fault like this,because they are computer itself, they know the time!

lolol they are computer itself

IT'S RUIN EVERYTHING guyz! I'm not a fan of the game but I think this is a little overblown. Anyway all my complaining yesterday made me want to take another shot at it.

 

[Pink Eye]

Grampy_Bone I don't get it. It seems like he doesn't understand the initiative roll? But that's in the battle log. If he is having issues tracking the initiative for each character. He can always hover over them. At the top of each character is a timer that illustrates how long until the character can act. If he is having issues with Real Time, there is a Turn Based mod.

 

[ArchAngel]

Funny shit is that Owlcat implemented it right for start of combat. Those that win initiative will get to attack first, while others wait a bit. This creates 8s round at start of combat.

 

[Tigranes]

I wouldn't know, I play turn-based and my fighter does not get more punch

 

[Grampy_Bone]

Initiative is always tricky in RTwP and I think Owlcat actually did it right, since a time delay is exactly what should happen. Poor guy needed to adjust his auto-pause settings I guess.

Turn based mode would help him but it looks like he never touched it again.

 

[Pink Eye]

Funny shit is that Owlcat implemented it right for start of combat. Those that win initiative will get to attack first, while others wait a bit. This creates 8s round at start of combat.

Basically. The only confusing bit is characters acting during the initiative "cooldown". For example flurry of blows, and other characters with high BAB, make it confusing to track in a real time environment. But that is what auto pausing and the Turn Based mod is for.

 

[The_Mask]

Turn based mode would help him but it looks like he never touched it again.

This is actually sad, because the way it sounds he might have a legitimate complaint, and he sounded like a real fan of the system. At least as far as I could tell.

If I were Owlcat, and I were to value incoming critique, I would value him 1000 more times than... say... pretty much any of the 1st page of this thread.

 

[Gregz]

I've heard a lot of good things about the game and many times wanted to try it. Every time I stopped when seeing screenshots with generic fantasy cute portraits and colorful magic fireworks. Also as I saw in lp, writing is kinda teenage dumb (at least in Russian). But there is this fucking MCA goblin which supposed to be good...I don't know.

It doesn't take an analyzer to realize the bias in the OP.

My only bias is having played every PC D&D RPG since Pool of Radiance. I've been playing PC RPGs longer than you have been alive. I have a good basis for comparing P:K to its predecessors.

The bias is made specifically to portray the game in a negative light.

My 'bias' is based on two playthroughs, and over 100 hours of actual play.

if you base your entire judgement off of an OP who has a history of trashing the game, then your perspective will be skewed.

PE is right about this. The only thing you have to lose is your time, money, and peace of mind. In fact I actively encourage you, and everyone on the Codex, to play this game. BUT, make certain you play it from start to finish.

Ask yourself this, how is it that the game has 10k steam reviews?

It has 10k reviews because they had to scrap their original release which had mixed reviews. They hid that fact with a re-release trick (the 'Enhanced Edition') that changed nothing except to expunge the negative reviews from experienced gamers who had long since moved on. That re-release, and a swarm of shills inflating the current rating (which is still only 7/10), tricked more people into buying their shitty game.

How is that some players in this thread have spent over 1k hours in the game?

As you demonstrated in your post above, you (and several others in here) are insane. However, you can easily clock those hours just by starting kingmaker, tabbing out, and leaving it afk for a week. That's another way owlcat fooled people.

How is it the game is considered a financial success?

It's a financial 'success' because hype, brand recognition, and fake reviews tricked people into buying it. There's also the fact that producing a game in a shithole like Russia costs peanuts.

If the game is as bad as the OP is letting on, then why do certain individuals in this thread love it so much?

I can only assume you guys are sadomasochists. Which is fine, there's a niche for everyone.

Try the game, if you don't like it then refund. Steam has a 2 hour refund policy.

This is one of the worst things. Character creation and the first few hours of gameplay are actually quite good. Owlcat is very aware of Steam's refund window, and they succeeded in duping players into thinking the remainder of the game is like the first chapter. It is not.

 

[Pink Eye]

Turn based mode would help him but it looks like he never touched it again.

This is actually sad, because the way it sounds he might have a legitimate complaint, and he sounded like a real fan of the system. At least as far as I could tell.

If I were Owlcat, and I were to value incoming critique, I would value him 1000 more times than... say... pretty much any of the 1st page of this thread.

Yup. I wonder if Owlcat does read the reviews. Probably not. Who knows.

 

[Crispy]

I'm Chinese...

I think it's interesting what the guy is saying. My only question to him would be how exactly is he determining which characters are getting screwed out of their actions taking place in a timely fashion? It's not like there's a ToEE-like initiative queue at the top of the screen.

 

[Pink Eye]

Gregz Wait why go after me. Go after Daidre she's smarter than me.

 

[Crispy]

My 'bias' is based on two playthroughs, and over 100 hours of actual play.

So you completed each complete playthrough in 50 hours? That's impressive, especially for a guy who hates the game.

 

[ArchAngel]

My 'bias' is based on two playthroughs, and over 100 hours of actual play.

So you completed each complete playthrough in 50 hours? That's impressive, especially for a guy who hates the game.

More likely he did two runs of Act 1 but rage quit two times after going to Rat Cave.

 

[Tigranes]

I don't get it. I can see how someone might not rate the game very much, but this doesn't seem to be the kind of game that has very clear "oh god it's bullshit" moments or very clear idiot tests.

POE's ghosts were a "do you know the game systems" detector, just like Underrail's Depot A, but unlike those places, spider swarms aren't really in your face so much. There's no unusually egregious area like NWN2's orc caves. Did stuff really substantially change between release and now, maybe?

I can imagine how with all the crazy bugs and broken quests on release, it might have just worn people out.