NWN Why was Neverwinter Nights 2 not as popular as NWN1?

[Just Locus]

I've been playing Mask of the Betrayer, and it's been really solid. From what I've tinkered with on the game's toolset, it's a lot more advanced than NWN1's, not to mention it still runs on D&D 3.5e.

so I'm genuinely curious, why did Neverwinter Nights 2 never take off as much as 1 did? that's not to say it isn't somewhat popular, but you never hear it talked about as much as its predecessor.

 

[TheKing01]

I'd say bugs and optimization, but a vast majority of those were fixed by near-bankrupt Obsidian.

The reality is, the camera in NWN2 was horrific, and beyond expectation there's no reasonable way to fix it (even with mods) in a non-obtrusive way.

 

[Just Locus]

Yeah, I keep having to switch between tactical and exploration mode because I can never get the camera to a comfortable position consistently.

 

[TheKing01]

Yeah, I keep having to switch between tactical and exploration mode because I can never get the camera to a comfortable position consistently.

Yup, it's always just something you have to work around, not ever actually 'good'.

Always wondered how there hasn't been a single mod that has fixed this issue.

 

[Laz Sundays]

Because it was an annoying mess and most of the companions were garbage that you cannot really dismiss

 

[Harthwain]

so I'm genuinely curious, why did Neverwinter Nights 2 never take off as much as 1 did? that's not to say it isn't somewhat popular, but you never hear it talked about as much as its predecessor.

NWN1 was a big deal mainly because it was supposed to herald the era of playing cRPGs with other people (including the GM) via multiplayer. It was truly a ground-breaking concept for a videogame. In contrast NWN2 was "just" yet another singleplayer cRPG and the only thing it had going for it was the Neverwinter Nights brand. It wasn't bad, but it didn't stand out either.

 

[Late Bloomer]

Paging Gargaune

 

[Cryomancer]

Camera, controls and the OC.

 

[Nekot-The-Brave]

The Editor sucked ass (which appeared to be on purpose)

 

[aweigh]

LOVE nwn2

 

[Dr Skeleton]

Mostly bugs and camera issues. Later versions are playable but it was really bad at first, I'm talking Owlcat 1.00v bad or worse, the first time I played it I got stuck in Neverwinter with neverending loading screens and patching didn't help, the solution was essentially "reinstall the game with a different patch and start again lol". It had tons of patches, some of which I think were mutually exclusive and offered different fixes and camera options.

And it's not like the main module is some diamond in the rough, it's alright but nothing amazing, combine that with bugs, crashes and the frustration of something as basic as operating the camera so you can actually see shit and you understand why many people just quit playing and never looked back. MotB is good, but it has nothing to do with NWN2 OC being good or the game engine being good.

 

[damager]

Obisidian

Bad toolkit

 

[damager]

Nwn1 lived from its excellent toolkit and GM tool, the persistent world servers and fan campaigns. Obsidian totally missed the mark delivering a product that was something totally different. Shame on them

 

[Gargaune]

Just Locus, like others have said, the camera and party controls were quite clunky and frustrating. Not quite as terrible as BG3's today, but still pretty all-around bad. Check my guide for some pointers to ease the pain.

The OC was also a disappointing experience, generally underwhelming in spite of one or two standout moments (the trial, the keep) and riddled with rushed, poor implementations. That said, NWN's own OC was widely panned and for good reason, yet it didn't stop the game from pulling strong with subsequent expansion content and a huge library of fan modules.

Which brings us to NWN2's biggest failure - the Electron Toolset. The original NWN was built as a platform first and a videogame second, and that's reflected in the magnificent Aurora Toolset, powerful, reliable and supremely accessible. Module-building was as much a feature of the game as singleplayer and multiplayer. NWN2, however, was developed as a regular videogame, with the dev tools offered "as-is" to sweeten the deal. Electron, despite some improved building capabilities, is a massive regression in usability due to labour requirements, poor design and brittle coding. You still can build whole campaigns with it and some people have, but few had the patience for it and NWN2's community library is a fraction of NWN's as a result. So NWN2 got its good expansions (SoZ, MoW and the stellar MotB), but not as much fan content.

To add to this, NWN2 did somewhat abrogate the multiplayer/co-op focus of its predecessor. This was somewhat logical since NWN also zeroed back into the singleplayer side after the OC and the bulk of community content was singleplayer, but the PW community was a sizeable and persitent driver in the game's modding scene. NWN2 couldn't tap into that to add to its longevity.

Also, as a minor point, NWN2 was actually a bit demanding on hardware when it came out. I couldn't comfortably play it on release and had to wait to upgrade my PC. Not the be-all, end-all of anything, but it certainly won't have helped early adoption.



P.S. catfood, fuck you too, buddy!

 

[Just Locus]

like others have said, the camera and party controls were quite clunky and frustrating. Not quite as terrible as BG3's today, but still pretty all-around bad. Check my guide for some pointers to ease the pain.

I have checked your guide, it was superb. Nice job as always.

Electron, despite some improved building capabilities, is a massive regression in usability due to labour requirements, poor design and brittle coding. [...] not as much fan content.

I can see why this was the case, the first thing I did after getting NWN2 was the toolset and I was supremely overwhelmed, much more than when I had opened NWN1's toolset. Things that were naturally intuitive in Aurora were much harder to locate in Electrion, but features like terrain painting and a larger map-size were nice, I just wish it was made more accessible so that people can make greater campaigns with advanced scripting, because NWN2 has some great modules, like Baldur's Gate 1 and Icewind Dale.

NWN2 was actually a bit demanding on hardware when it came out.

I have a laptop that's more than capable of running NWN2 and it crashes anytime I change the resolution beyond 1280x720

 

[Sweeper]

If I had to guess I'd say it doesn't have the modules NWN did.
As far as the camera being shitty, NWN's wasn't much better. But I have limited experience with both games. Dropped NWN OC in chapter 2, dropped NWN 2 OC at the grey orcs bit.
Both games have excellent content on offer (or so I've been told), it's a shame that the OCs are so fucking shit that they pretty much guaranteed I'll never touch any of it.

 

[Gargaune]

I have a laptop that's more than capable of running NWN2 and it crashes anytime I change the resolution beyond 1280x720

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

They were both terrible.
But the first at least was popular as a multiplayer game, which never happened with the second.

 

[Fedora Master]

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Worst camera in history of gaming, in tight corridors near unplayable.

 

[Just Locus]

Yeah, there are a lot of moments I've been having in MOTB lately where I'm fighting the camera more than the enemies.

 

[Morgoth]

It felt exceedingly rushed, incoherent and mediocre. Althought the MotB expansion was excellent.

 

[Old Hans]

From what I've tinkered with on the game's toolset, it's a lot more advanced than NWN1's

that's what I remember being one of the reasons it never became as popular. Making areas took slightly more effort

 

[damager]

I just wish it was made more accessible so that people can make greater campaigns with advanced scripting, because NWN2 has some great modules, like Baldur's Gate 1 and Icewind Dale.

 

[Jvegi]

NWN1 was so shit it lost all good will it had from IE games. Nothing was left for the sequel.