NWN Why was Neverwinter Nights 2 not as popular as NWN1?

[Faarbaute]

Really? In NWN2 you have a lot more races and subraces like Genasis, Gnomes, Planetouched, and more prestige classes IIRC.

True. I was referring to the way the rules had been implemented more strictly, at (IMO) the expense of fun.

 

[Jaesun]

The camera in NWN2 was utterly terrible but the toolset and engine (and VFX tools) are incredibly well done. Here we are.

 

[Just Locus]

I was referring to the way the rules had been implemented more strictly, at (IMO) the expense of fun.

How so? Not arguing, just genuinely curious since the way it was implemented seems fine to me.

 

[Faarbaute]

I was referring to the way the rules had been implemented more strictly, at (IMO) the expense of fun.

How so? Not arguing, just genuinely curious since the way it was implemented seems fine to me.

It also implemented a more balanced, that is, boring version of DnD. Haste no longer sped up spellcasting, and attribute buffs from different sources no longer stacked (to +12) among other things.

 

[Nikanuur]

I've been playing Mask of the Betrayer, and it's been really solid. From what I've tinkered with on the game's toolset, it's a lot more advanced than NWN1's, not to mention it still runs on D&D 3.5e.

so I'm genuinely curious, why did Neverwinter Nights 2 never take off as much as 1 did? that's not to say it isn't somewhat popular, but you never hear it talked about as much as its predecessor.

NWN2 was one of the first to come with the MMORPG level of empty environment in a single player game.
That is, masking as CRPG but empty aside enemies and basic stuff like chests, doors, simplistic lever usage, etc.
From what I heard, the Mask of the Betrayer remedied that substantially, but the main game remained the same.

 

[Laz Sundays]

It may have given the option to use it for multiplayer custom content, but it still did a Bethesda at the core of the design.

Also it isn't true that I hate it, I played it more than all of the other D&D crpgs actually, including ToEE. I ran the absolutely broken cleric with Knowledge + Magic domains, opening all chests disarming traps and identifying shit for free. There's a trick to make ridiculous early money spamcasting Light on all common armor/weapons/amulets/rings/belts increasing their price. I know complete NwN 1 campaign and dlcs by heart - never said it was a bad experience. The bad thing is that it's not good enough to be called a D&D experience and it never will be, and the sad thing is that noone ever made a better substitute setting in all these years.

We shouldn't just make peace with it and call it "the best". It ain't that good at all.

 

[Beans00]

As someone who disliked nwn 1, and who was extremely disappointed by it;

NWN 2 added in full party control, with the most annoying companions in the history of rpgs. Everything else about it was worse than nwn 1, which IMO already wasn't a good game.

 

[luj1]

Because NwN 1 was, and is, better

It's a game that's still played a lot today, has a cult following, people are still coming up with builds and making custom content

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

NWN1 came out on the heels of Baldur's Gate saga, when Bioware was at the top of the world. It's hard to expain to you young nincompoops how big Bioware was in the RPG world in late 90s, early 2000s. Everyone expected NWN to be some great D&D toolset/engine that would create a thousand Baldur's Gates in glorious 3D, and let you play them with GMs, friends, or solo.

NWN2 came out in 2006, by which point everyone already knew that NWN was actually made by some interns/2nd rate team at Bioware, while their first team was finishing up BG expansions. Everyone knew that the NWN Original Campaign was utter shit, and while there were good community made modules for it, it just wasn't the same. So yeah, the hype level was several thousand times lower.

 

[d1nolore]

NWN1 came out on the heels of Baldur's Gate saga, when Bioware was at the top of the world. It's hard to expain to you young nincompoops how big Bioware was in the RPG world in late 90s, early 2000s. Everyone expected NWN to be some great D&D toolset/engine that would create a thousand Baldur's Gates in glorious 3D, and let you play them with GMs, friends, or solo.

NWN2 came out in 2006, by which point everyone already knew that NWN was actually made by some interns/2nd rate team at Bioware, while their first team was finishing up BG expansions. Everyone knew that the NWN Original Campaign was utter shit, and while there were good community made modules for it, it just wasn't the same. So yeah, the hype level was several thousand times lower.

The NWN engine was much more advanced and complete, they had a real pro team work on the engine.

After all these years people still don’t get NWN. It was first and foremost a multiplayer game, it was inspired by Neverwinter Nights(1991) an online game. The reason it was single character control was because you were meant to play it multiplayer so other players made up the party, you were never meant to control a party in single player and you can not. They just threw it henchmen as a feature of the OC if you wanted one.

It was made with a powerful and easy to use toolset so you could make modules and play with your friends, or make a multiplayer module and host online using the the nwserver program which you can host without running the game. All the tools were there provided from day dot. There’s persistent worlds still running today that have been around for decades now. Early on near launch you could pull up the server listing and there were 100’s of unique servers to play; action, pvp, team pvp, roleplaying, heaps of stuff made and hosted by players.

Back in the day with a group of friends we would play a castle siege mod where we were split into 2 groups of castle defenders and attackers. There were multiple ways to attack the castle so you could try different routes. There was also defences you could set up. When one team lost the game would reset. It was a module on the nwvault, we didn’t make it, and there was heaps of stuff like that.

A big feature was the Dungeon Master client where a player could DM a game. So it could be an online server with 50+ players and they jump in and interact with players and create encounters in real time. Or they could create or run an adventure with a private group like a dnd campaign. DMs can possess npcs and monsters, spawn stuff, teleport players to different areas, change weather and stuff, the community made heaps of tools to extend the DM capabilities. So imagine a quest where NPCs are played by a dungeon master, he can jump between npcs or monsters, jump ahead to areas and setup traps or new encounters. This is why players have been playing this game for so long because it’s not static at all.

Think about the BG multiplayer experience; it was basically just combat for the secondary players you couldn’t follow anything that was going on. In NWN, and in the shitty OC, you could complete the game together with a party and everyone follows what’s happening. You can even go on different quests at the same time if you want, or get lost and catch up, whatever you wanted. Way more advanced than infinity engine.

Single player was just another component. Yes the OC sucked ass but that’s because the main bulk was spent on the engine and tools. So later modules were much better than the OC. Some single player modules are great.


So you don’t have to like the game, if you wanted the next BG game and didn’t want multiplayer then yeah you would be disappointed. But atleast get what it actually was, it wasn’t a game about the F’ing OC and shit henchmen.

NWN2 sucked because they didn’t have a team capable or enough time to replicate NWN. NWN was a masterclass in game design.

 

[volklore]

When it comes to NWN 1 and 2 original content, they are quite similar. The OCs are pretty terrible, both of them, and their expansions are much better, shorter and more focused adventures.

 

[Lacrymas]

NWN2's OC is better than 1's.

 

[Tuco Benedicto Pacifico]

NWN2's OC is better than 1's.

Talk about setting a fucking low bar.

 

[Faarbaute]

NWN1 came out on the heels of Baldur's Gate saga, when Bioware was at the top of the world. It's hard to expain to you young nincompoops how big Bioware was in the RPG world in late 90s, early 2000s. Everyone expected NWN to be some great D&D toolset/engine that would create a thousand Baldur's Gates in glorious 3D, and let you play them with GMs, friends, or solo.

NWN2 came out in 2006, by which point everyone already knew that NWN was actually made by some interns/2nd rate team at Bioware, while their first team was finishing up BG expansions. Everyone knew that the NWN Original Campaign was utter shit, and while there were good community made modules for it, it just wasn't the same. So yeah, the hype level was several thousand times lower.

The NWN engine was much more advanced and complete, they had a real pro team work on the engine.

After all these years people still don’t get NWN. It was first and foremost a multiplayer game, it was inspired by Neverwinter Nights(1991) an online game. The reason it was single character control was because you were meant to play it multiplayer so other players made up the party, you were never meant to control a party in single player and you can not. They just threw it henchmen as a feature of the OC if you wanted one.

It was made with a powerful and easy to use toolset so you could make modules and play with your friends, or make a multiplayer module and host online using the the nwserver program which you can host without running the game. All the tools were there provided from day dot. There’s persistent worlds still running today that have been around for decades now. Early on near launch you could pull up the server listing and there were 100’s of unique servers to play; action, pvp, team pvp, roleplaying, heaps of stuff made and hosted by players.

Back in the day with a group of friends we would play a castle siege mod where we were split into 2 groups of castle defenders and attackers. There were multiple ways to attack the castle so you could try different routes. There was also defences you could set up. When one team lost the game would reset. It was a module on the nwvault, we didn’t make it, and there was heaps of stuff like that.

A big feature was the Dungeon Master client where a player could DM a game. So it could be an online server with 50+ players and they jump in and interact with players and create encounters in real time. Or they could create or run an adventure with a private group like a dnd campaign. DMs can possess npcs and monsters, spawn stuff, teleport players to different areas, change weather and stuff, the community made heaps of tools to extend the DM capabilities. So imagine a quest where NPCs are played by a dungeon master, he can jump between npcs or monsters, jump ahead to areas and setup traps or new encounters. This is why players have been playing this game for so long because it’s not static at all.

Think about the BG multiplayer experience; it was basically just combat for the secondary players you couldn’t follow anything that was going on. In NWN, and in the shitty OC, you could complete the game together with a party and everyone follows what’s happening. You can even go on different quests at the same time if you want, or get lost and catch up, whatever you wanted. Way more advanced than infinity engine.

Single player was just another component. Yes the OC sucked ass but that’s because the main bulk was spent on the engine and tools. So later modules were much better than the OC. Some single player modules are great.


So you don’t have to like the game, if you wanted the next BG game and didn’t want multiplayer then yeah you would be disappointed. But atleast get what it actually was, it wasn’t a game about the F’ing OC and shit henchmen.

NWN2 sucked because they didn’t have a team capable or enough time to replicate NWN. NWN was a masterclass in game design.

The technical shortcomings of NWN2 coupled with its shift in focus to the single player (OC) experience, essentially, and functionally, made it not a sequel to NWN anymore, but a poor man's Baldur's Gate, instead.

Everyone in my rather large circle of friends and acquaintances, who were all really into NWN back then, were initially really excited by NWN 2's release, but they all bounced off it and back to NWN 1, once this all had become apparent to them.

It was a sequel to the wrong game, and a bad one at that.

 

[aweigh]

i tried re-installing NWN2 Complete Edition yesterday all set to replay the game and it crashed on me every single time i tried to start.


pirated version, of course. i owned the original physical release when it came out but have long since lost it inbetween movings, so i have no qualms about pirating something i previously owned already.

i heard from other people that the Steam and Gog versions supposedly "run better" (i.e. probably won't crash instantly on a modern PC) but the game is selling for $30 dollars in 2024 and there is zero chance i'm paying that for NWN2. Only way i'd re-buy NWN2 right now is if it was like max 5 bucks.

 

[notpl]

I think the simplest answer is that NWN1's multiplayer and community content was lightning in a bottle and there was too much inertia behind it for the community to switch over.

 

[aweigh]

I've been playing Mask of the Betrayer, and it's been really solid. From what I've tinkered with on the game's toolset, it's a lot more advanced than NWN1's, not to mention it still runs on D&D 3.5e.

so I'm genuinely curious, why did Neverwinter Nights 2 never take off as much as 1 did? that's not to say it isn't somewhat popular, but you never hear it talked about as much as its predecessor.

NWN2 was one of the first to come with the MMORPG level of empty environment in a single player game.
That is, masking as CRPG but empty aside enemies and basic stuff like chests, doors, simplistic lever usage, etc.
From what I heard, the Mask of the Betrayer remedied that substantially, but the main game remained the same.

I love the NWN2 OC, prefer it to MotB tbh. Love the fantasy pastiche and comfy atmosphere in NWN2.

 

[Gargaune]

Only way i'd re-buy NWN2 right now is if it was like max 5 bucks.

I think I've seen it go on sale for around $8 on GOG, but it's not that often. Stick it on a wishlist.

 

[Just Locus]

I love the NWN2 OC, prefer it to MotB tbh. Love the fantasy pastiche and comfy atmosphere in NWN2.

I'm not sure I'd go that far, but I respect it.

 

[Lagole Gon]

Camera and interface. It's just painful to interact with.
Bugs and optimization on the release.

Rushed OC campaign. But I don't hate it, it was frustratingly close to being kind-of-good.

 

[damager]

They sell nwn2 for 30$? What the fuck

Because of that shit leecher cooperation beamdog I actually have to rebuy nwn1 because my diamond edition is not supported by any servers anymore. Even though it runs perfectly in high definition out the box, with scalable UI and modern network code. What a disgusting business model are these people running? lol

 

[Lacrymas]

NWN1:EE is fine and it constantly gets on sale for like 2 Euro.

 

[Grunker]

both games are absolutely terrible

though at least NWN2 is mainly bad to due to its camera and similar technical issues, not because its fundamental design is ass

 

[damager]

NWN1:EE is fine and it constantly gets on sale for like 2 Euro.

Whats fine about it? It just seems completly superflous and made the old version useless.

So now I have to wait for a sale to play the game I already bought twice before? Why is this acceptable? What does the EE version bring me the diamond edition did not have?

 

[Konjad]

NWN1:EE is fine and it constantly gets on sale for like 2 Euro.

Whats fine about it? It just seems completly superflous and made the old version useless.

So now I have to wait for a sale to play the game I already bought twice before? Why is this acceptable? What does the EE version bring me the diamond edition did not have?

Bring you?