NWN Why was Neverwinter Nights 2 not as popular as NWN1?

[Jvegi]

Nwn1 graphics fucking suck. The only good thing about them were combat animations, due to their 3d novelty. The novelty which wore off after a few hours.

As for nwn2, it's obviously not very popular. Even in this thread we keepctalking about the first game.

 

[Just Locus]

two already great games ported into an inferior engine are good modules.

I still think it speaks volumes about the capabilities of the toolset that you can recreate two entirely separate games in it. Not to mention the simple novelty of playing AD&D 2nd Edition games in 3.5e.

 

[mondblut]

Obsidian sequels just don't have the same pleb appeal as the original goy slop by the (((usual suspects))). Cases in point: KOTOR, Fallout 3, and yes, NWN.

 

[damager]

Yeah Obsidian can neither do popamole nore groknardian stuff. They are stuck in Josh Sawyers pierced asshole.

 

[Lacrymas]

To answer the question in the title - because the toolset isn't as easy to use. NWN2's aesthetics are also not as charming as 1's, so there's no nostalgia or niche appeal there.

 

[Old Hans]

two already great games ported into an inferior engine are good modules.

I still think it speaks volumes about the capabilities of the toolset that you can recreate two entirely separate games in it. Not to mention the simple novelty of playing AD&D 2nd Edition games in 3.5e.

but those fantastic 2d backgrounds were a really important part of the game. Once you take that out, It is nothing more than a twisted mockery, like Morgoth twisting elves into orcs with the use of the NWN engine

 

[damager]

Yeah. Porting these beautiful 2D games into a bad to mid 3D graphic (with bad camera lol) is very backwards.

 

[Laz Sundays]

Yes, it does, you fucking troglodyte. There's subjectively wrong, like saying NWN sucks, then there's objectively wrong

Riight, I keep forgetting how many of you are still playing that shit religiously.

It IS a downgrade. Everything except ToEE is shit at being D&D. Neverwinter JUST LOOKS LIKE D&D FROM AFAR, and the argument how it is superior because it allows you to mod it and hook up with your likeminded friends is bs. That ain't a feat, that's more of a sad reality. If the only thing available is an abridged shit, I ain't fucking eating it.

I was originally talking about the core singleplayer experience it offers, and how it is catered to casuals/beginners compared to something more complex like ToEE. NO REASON TO TURN IT INTO A PERSONAL ATTACK, YE CUNT. Enjoy and play whatever the fuck you want

 

[Laz Sundays]

Even the single player character building is way more true to DnD ruleset than. Infinity engine ever was. You know, infinity engine? The game were your priest could have 8 wisdom and would be the same than a 18 wisdom priest?

Infinity era sucks at being D&D aswell, yes. There was no game that got as far as ToEE. We've been playing mutations for decades

 

[damager]

It's mages with int though. that's why I deleted this argument

Yeah ToEE was such a good adaption of DnD. With their one monstertype in all of the game. Classic

 

[roguefrog]

The original Neverwinter Nights campaign sucked balls. It was an afterthought. And you only controlled one character, with real-time with pause.

NWN2 campaign was also mostly terrible, and the camera was the worst shit ever produced, but the game had some flashes of brillance. It beat Dragon Age: Origin to it's Landsmeet with the court scene...

Both games offical expansions were much better than their...dogshit OCs, and The Mask of the Betrayer wins easily.

 

[Camel]

NWN2 is good RPG not to mention Mask of the Betrayer. But I vividly remember the camera from hell spinning out of control. Bishop is a cool evil character and girls loved him.

 

[GentlemanCthulhu]

Just Locus, like others have said, the camera and party controls were quite clunky and frustrating. Not quite as terrible as BG3's today, but still pretty all-around bad. Check my guide for some pointers to ease the pain.

The OC was also a disappointing experience, generally underwhelming in spite of one or two standout moments (the trial, the keep) and riddled with rushed, poor implementations. That said, NWN's own OC was widely panned and for good reason, yet it didn't stop the game from pulling strong with subsequent expansion content and a huge library of fan modules.

Which brings us to NWN2's biggest failure - the Electron Toolset. The original NWN was built as a platform first and a videogame second, and that's reflected in the magnificent Aurora Toolset, powerful, reliable and supremely accessible. Module-building was as much a feature of the game as singleplayer and multiplayer. NWN2, however, was developed as a regular videogame, with the dev tools offered "as-is" to sweeten the deal. Electron, despite some improved building capabilities, is a massive regression in usability due to labour requirements, poor design and brittle coding. You still can build whole campaigns with it and some people have, but few had the patience for it and NWN2's community library is a fraction of NWN's as a result. So NWN2 got its good expansions (SoZ, MoW and the stellar MotB), but not as much fan content.

To add to this, NWN2 did somewhat abrogate the multiplayer/co-op focus of its predecessor. This was somewhat logical since NWN also zeroed back into the singleplayer side after the OC and the bulk of community content was singleplayer, but the PW community was a sizeable and persitent driver in the game's modding scene. NWN2 couldn't tap into that to add to its longevity.

Also, as a minor point, NWN2 was actually a bit demanding on hardware when it came out. I couldn't comfortably play it on release and had to wait to upgrade my PC. Not the be-all, end-all of anything, but it certainly won't have helped early adoption.



P.S. catfood, fuck you too, buddy!

You’re the only other person I’ve seen who considers BG3’s UX terrible. An opinion I wholeheartedly agree with. It is atrocious. I extend this to entirety of the UI as well.

 

[Snufkin]

some of the enviromentals, like the forest where you could only see the tree trunks, still look good today and were innovative for its time.

Graphics do still look good, but at the time they required very speedy hardware, a lot of people couldn't run it smoothly. Combine that with camera issues and you have a flop on your hands.

Ran very good on my voodoo3 and P3 500.

 

[Nas92]

I agree with most everyone here but I think another huge problem was how uninspiring the vanilla NWN2 campaign was. The festival was an especially dogshit starting area and it didn't get much better. MOTB may have been awesome but it was already too late, NWN2's fate has been sealed.

 

[GreyViper]

The camera and UI, man I recall getting a new GPU to play NWN2 OC when it came out, what a disappointment it was. I will say this, the mods and modules had me playing this a bit longer then I would have otherwise, but unlike NWN 1 its hard to go back to it.

 

[rubinstein]

NWN2 is good RPG not to mention Mask of the Betrayer. But I vividly remember the camera from hell spinning out of control. Bishop is a cool evil character and girls loved him.

the amount of questionable quality fan-arts of him with various self-inserts is truly something to behold. girls love rascals, true, and they were done dirty with the only romanceable companion being casavir, a paladin with extremely strong pussy-drying aura. i feel for them. bishop wasnt anything special anyway, but still one of the better companions from the lot. on the other hand, we, gents, didnt have it much better with elanee. no words on the musky bitch. whenever she talks i always tell her to shove it up her mossy cave, so we can proceed with questing. usually by neverwinter i am on like -9999 influence with her, no regrets. once i unlock qara, i let elanee take roots in the flagon. shes not getting sunlight for long. you gotta applaud obsidian for picking the worst characters, maybe except for unfuckable freaks like the frog or grobnar, to be romanceables. i mean, just like many people on dex im not into romances, but some people are, and nwn2 OC will not be a game for them. obviously motb is much better in all the departments, this one too. obsidian learnt their lesson. safiya romance is much more than just an obligatory crpg romance. it beautifully ties into motb story and themes. imo some masterfully written shit, at least for gaming standards. gann seems to be bishop-lite, with bigger emphasis on being wild and charming than opportunistic and cruel. not many fan-arts of him online, but at least you can find few of them. when i tried looking for "casavir nwn2 fanart" i got returned with some drawings of bishop holding/kissing female protags. thats another level of being cucked, lmao.

 

[Gargaune]

Everything except ToEE is shit at being D&D. Neverwinter JUST LOOKS LIKE D&D FROM AFAR, and the argument how it is superior because it allows you to mod it and hook up with your likeminded friends is bs.

I have no issue with you not liking NWN, there's plenty around here who (unfortunately) don't, but it's absurd to blast it as "the most castrated form of D&D" when it's quantifiably the most comprehensive attempt at bringing that experience to your computer. The multiplayer, DM and module-authoring features weren't incidental little bonuses (like Todd sharing Gamebryo tools), but explicitly assumed pillars of the game's design and no other CRPG - not BG3, not Solasta nor KotC - has ever tried to slap that full scope of D&D onto your screen like NWN has.

ToEE? I love it and it's mechanically the best D&D-based CRPG I've played, but that's what it is, not a virtual D&D platform like NWN. Now if that platform ain't good enough for you, fair enough, but we've had innumerable other CRPGs do a lot less as "forms of D&D."

Enjoy and play whatever the fuck you want

You too, brother, all's good in the hood.

You’re the only other person I’ve seen who considers BG3’s UX terrible. An opinion I wholeheartedly agree with. It is atrocious. I extend this to entirety of the UI as well.

Naturally. Brandy, cigars, and hating BG3's UI - these are the things to occupy a gentleman. In all seriousness, though, I'm always dismayed at how much crap Obsidian got over NWN2's (legitimately crummy) UI, yet BG3's obscenity of an interface skirts by with barely a mention. The power of romances, I guess.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

NWN is better at what it tries to be, which is a platform to bring D&D into virtual worlds. It's easier to control as a player, generate content, and runs better. NWN2 tries to move back closer to the IE engine with parties, but with lackluster results.

Both have disappointing OC with quite good expansions. While NWN2 is also harder to create content for, I think NWN2 just got overshadowed by WoW and the MMO age. That was already cutting into the NWN player base heavily by 2004.

 

[damager]

Fuck I think I have to install NWN1 and look for some oldschool RP PW with a shitload of haks. Can somebody recommend something good?

 

[damager]

 

[Faarbaute]

When NWN 2 was initially released it was a complete mess. Nothing was satisfactory. It was buggy, it was unoptimized, it ran badly and it crashed alot. Everything from the camera and the UI, to the animations and spell effects just screamed low budget. It also implemented a more balanced, that is, boring version of DnD. Haste no longer sped up spellcasting, and attribute buffs from different sources no longer stacked (to +12) among other things.

It was just shit.

 

[Fargus]

Cuz it feels like NWN 1 halfway through transition into NWN2. Bad plastic visuals, bad animation, old music tracks mixed with new ones, dual dialogue systems old nwn dialogue box and cinematic, lots of half assed shit.

But i played through the main campaign and kinda liked it unlike NWN1 OC.

I haven't played a single module for NWN 2 and NWN1 i play only for modules.

 

[deuxhero]

You couldn't unequip the clothes of female characters

 

[Just Locus]

holy shit, I've never played in any PvP PWs but this looks like utter chaos

But i played through the main campaign and kinda liked it unlike NWN1 OC.

NWN2's OC is better than NWN1's OC but the bar is so low, that it penetrated the earth, so not much to praise there.

that is, boring version of DnD. [...]

Really? In NWN2 you have a lot more races and subraces like Genasis, Gnomes, Planetouched, and more prestige classes IIRC.