Wing Commander

[DesolationStone]

All of this talking about WC led me yesterday to install Wing Commander IV while waiting for the remastered. I've chosen the MS-DOS version because at least I can modify the Joystick mapping with dosbox. BTW the jump from the cringe-greenscreen environments of WC3 to the scenarios of WC4 it's truly astonishing and even the acting and the script seems very good
"The price of freedom it's eternal vigilance"

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I beat this motherfucking second expansion and I'm FINALLY done with Wing Commander 1. Crusade is a pretty shitty expansion. SM1's difficulty was fair, and it forced me to learn new strategies, but Crusade just rapes you without remorse. The difficulty spikes without rhyme or reason. In SM1, you were often forced to pilot worse ships for many missions, but this was justified in the story, and you still get to pilot the best ship for the last few systems. Crusade often forces you into the Dralthi, which is terrible. It's only got one weak weapon and the weird layout of the hud means that you can't use your side and rear views to get a bearing on your environment like with other ships because the windows are so small. Most of the time you use the Dralthi on undercover missions, and that's fine, but there's one where you have to clear out several nav points and you're forced into the Dralthi for no reason - it's not a stealth mission or anything, and it's never justified as to why you have to use it. You get the Raptor and Rapier on the last system but it's too little, too late.
The story is much worse than SM1, as well. SM1 ended with a climactic battle against a unique battleship armed with a planet-nuking superweapon. Crusade ends with escorting the Tiger's Claw out of the system, and all you have to do is fight two waves of piddly ships and some Drakhais. Every mission before this threw DOZENS of these fucking Drakhais at you so it's not really special, and your Rapier's weapons can shred through them easily anyway. The last system is the exact same as the losing path you'd be on if you failed any of the previous systems, and this extends even to the dialogue. The briefing is just like "Gee, I sure hope those Firekka will be alright!", and then you get a tiny cutscene showing how said aliens are doing. If you won, they're free, if you lost, they're enslaved. So you don't even get a unique set of missions and cutscenes for staying on the winning path, because the Tiger's Claw is forced to retreat from the sector anyway.
They got lazy with this one. I was playing through it because I thought I'd get to see the Tiger's Claw getting destroyed as is described in the WC2 manual, but apparently that happens in between games. I would've skipped to WC2 entirely if I knew that Crusade's plot would've been this insubstantial. I doubt these Fireakka guys even show up again.

 

[ValeVelKal]

They don’t show up again, but the two new crewmen (Jazz and, et, someone else) do again.

 

[Saduj]

I can't say for sure which WC2 expansion it was, but one of them had a mission that was by far the hardest out of anything in the first two games plus expansions and the only one I considered truly impossible. I remember being on the verge of dying for the Nth time/rage quitting, then thinking "this time I'm just going to fly back to base instead of dying". And, in what I considered a miraculous turn of events, the game decided that I completed the mission. Normally, I would have felt the need to beat it properly but fuck that mission. Specs Ops 2 was the better of the WC2 expansions with the Mandarins, return of Jazz, nukes, etc but it might be the one that has that poison pill....

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I can't say for sure which WC2 expansion it was, but one of them had a mission that was by far the hardest out of anything in the first two games plus expansions and the only one I considered truly impossible. I remember being on the verge of dying for the Nth time/rage quitting, then thinking "this time I'm just going to fly back to base instead of dying". And, in what I considered a miraculous turn of events, the game decided that I completed the mission. Normally, I would have felt the need to beat it properly but fuck that mission. Specs Ops 2 was the better of the WC2 expansions with the Mandarins, return of Jazz, nukes, etc but it might be the one that has that poison pill....

I'm gonna be playing WC2 and its expansions shortly so I'll let you know which one it was. Though I really can't see anything being harder than Crusade.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I see what Lemming42 was talking about with WC2's story. They actually pull the "a day before retirement" bit completely straight on the third mission.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Nobody told me Wing Commander 2 would be this ridiculously brutal. It's generally not nearly as hard as Crusade, but these missions where you have to take out a capital ship piloting a Broadsword are killing me. It's like every ship has an aura 4000m around them that if you enter, you take damage from all sides. You can't pick at them from afar with the torpedos because they'll be shot down by flak guns, so you have to get in close. That means you have to wait VERY far away from the ship, let your shields recharge (which takes at least 2 minutes) and then go for the ship, all while your screen is continuously flashing red from unavoidable damage. It's insufferable.

 

[ValeVelKal]

Nobody told me Wing Commander 2 would be this ridiculously brutal. It's generally not nearly as hard as Crusade, but these missions where you have to take out a capital ship piloting a Broadsword are killing me. It's like every ship has an aura 4000m around them that if you enter, you take damage from all sides. You can't pick at them from afar with the torpedos because they'll be shot down by flak guns, so you have to get in close. That means you have to wait VERY far away from the ship, let your shields recharge (which takes at least 2 minutes) and then go for the ship, all while your screen is continuously flashing red from unavoidable damage. It's insufferable.

You don't need to keep your nose pointed at the target to lock. You can move left and right. Or just use afterburned to glide while keeping your nose pointed.

 

[Bigg Boss]

I recall Wing Commander 3 bugged out on the last mission. That really bugged the hell out of me as a kid. I did not know if it was me or the game.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

That cutscene where Jazz is begging for mercy while he's rapidly rotating in place

 

[Saduj]

Every time I see an ejected WC pilot, I think about Maniac saying "Time to ride the crazy chair!" every time he's about to eject. My favorite wingman line in the series.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Every time I see Maniac, I think of this.



Burn in hell, you POS.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I can't say for sure which WC2 expansion it was, but one of them had a mission that was by far the hardest out of anything in the first two games plus expansions and the only one I considered truly impossible. I remember being on the verge of dying for the Nth time/rage quitting, then thinking "this time I'm just going to fly back to base instead of dying". And, in what I considered a miraculous turn of events, the game decided that I completed the mission. Normally, I would have felt the need to beat it properly but fuck that mission. Specs Ops 2 was the better of the WC2 expansions with the Mandarins, return of Jazz, nukes, etc but it might be the one that has that poison pill....

I haven't beat it yet, but it looks like you're talking about the final mission of SO1. Like 8 fighters with very high health, two capital ships that shoot antimatter guns that instantly rip through your shields and tear up your hull, and two allies who never get any kills except when they kill you with friendly fire. Looking at a walkthrough, it looks like you can actually fail this one mission and get an alternative final mission separate from the losing path.

 

[Saduj]

I can't say for sure which WC2 expansion it was, but one of them had a mission that was by far the hardest out of anything in the first two games plus expansions and the only one I considered truly impossible. I remember being on the verge of dying for the Nth time/rage quitting, then thinking "this time I'm just going to fly back to base instead of dying". And, in what I considered a miraculous turn of events, the game decided that I completed the mission. Normally, I would have felt the need to beat it properly but fuck that mission. Specs Ops 2 was the better of the WC2 expansions with the Mandarins, return of Jazz, nukes, etc but it might be the one that has that poison pill....

I haven't beat it yet, but it looks like you're talking about the final mission of SO1. Like 8 fighters with very high health, two capital ships that shoot antimatter guns that instantly rip through your shields and tear up your hull, and two allies who never get any kills except when they kill you with friendly fire. Looking at a walkthrough, it looks like you can actually fail this one mission and get an alternative final mission separate from the losing path.

Just looked it up on Youtube and that's the one. Now I remember that one of the reasons I was so pissed is that I had bought SO2 and there was no way I would move on without beating the first one. I think the best I ever did was get one of the capital ships and most of the fighters. I definitely had a mission afterwards too so I guess the game did recognize the fail but didn't mention failure since there was another chance.

Funny thing is when I looked it up on Youtube, the first video I found of someone beating it was definitely using cheat codes. Dude didn't show the whole fight, just the enemies exploding. He's got full armor at the end of the mission and says something like "Hey guys, the reason why I don't have any damage is I got really lucky. Enemies kept flying into each other and my wingmen got a bunch of kills."

Found another guy who seems to have done it fair and square. His ship is shot to shit by the end. The video doesn't work if I try to post it here so I'll just post the address to his playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLF5ACEF279F93677D

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Just looked it up on Youtube and that's the one. Now I remember that one of the reasons I was so pissed is that I had bought SO2 and there was no way I would move on without beating the first one. I think the best I ever did was get one of the capital ships and most of the fighters. I definitely had a mission afterwards too so I guess the game did recognize the fail but didn't mention failure since there was another chance.

I just "beat" it. I immediately flew back upon reaching the last nav point with all the capital ships and fighters, without destroying any of them. Then the Admiral said "I should've expected this, Maverick... You've turned defeat into victory!" Roll credits. That was easy!

 

[LarryTyphoid]

So I beat Wing Commander 2 and all of its expansions. For some reason this game crashed a lot. The base game, not so much, but the two expansions would crash half the time every time an in-game cutscene occurred, especially when you're finished and trying to land back on the home ship. So I had to repeat some missions including the final boss fight with Jazz. Besides that quibble, it's a fun game. I'm glad I wasn't dissuaded from trying out WC1&2, and I can heartily recommend them, especially if you can figure out what causes all the cutscene crashing in WC2. From what little I've played of WC3 so far, I've noticed that you can't really drift with the afterburner anymore, which is a shame.

One detail I really liked in WC2 was that Blair has unique taunts when targeting Prince Thrakhath and Jazz. Although the same does not apply to the human pirates and Mandarins you face in the expansions, which is a big oversight; for them, it's still the normal Kilrathi taunts, which don't fit human opponents.

 

[GreyViper]

So I beat Wing Commander 2 and all of its expansions. For some reason this game crashed a lot. The base game, not so much, but the two expansions would crash half the time every time an in-game cutscene occurred, especially when you're finished and trying to land back on the home ship. So I had to repeat some missions including the final boss fight with Jazz. Besides that quibble, it's a fun game. I'm glad I wasn't dissuaded from trying out WC1&2, and I can heartily recommend them, especially if you can figure out what causes all the cutscene crashing in WC2. From what little I've played of WC3 so far, I've noticed that you can't really drift with the afterburner anymore, which is a shame.

One detail I really liked in WC2 was that Blair has unique taunts when targeting Prince Thrakhath and Jazz. Although the same does not apply to the human pirates and Mandarins you face in the expansions, which is a big oversight; for them, it's still the normal Kilrathi taunts, which don't fit human opponents.

How did you like the ships and their layouts say compared to WC1? I feel like WC 2 managed to have the best experience for me after Privateer. And I will still argue Morningstar should have become a mainstay in Confed service minus the mace until WC3.
Considering WC2 was the age of particle cannons it was a successful testbed for them. Of course, there is the not-so-successful one called Epee, toilet paper armor and weapons that hunger all the power. Im almost sad we didnt get Talon or Stiletto to fly. But in a way flying that thing made us appreciate the other ships more. Shout out to Broadsword a true tank and cap ship hunter that had afterburners, unlike Crossbow.

LarryTyphoid
If you ever feel nostalgic and want to fly WC2-era ships in post-WCP timeline, try you hand on Unknown Enemy mod.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

How did you like the ships and their layouts say compared to WC1?

I liked being able to shoot from different angles of the ship. I bound the F1-F4 keys to the d-pad on top of my joystick and it worked very well. Getting a nuke in SO2 was pretty cool too.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

SO2 made me like Maniac a lot, so I'm glad there's a lot more of him in WC3&4. He's already pretty likable in WC3, though the dynamic with Blair is different since Blair's a commanding officer now. And he isn't a red-eyed shaman anymore.

I almost regret letting him die in WC1.

 

[mediocrepoet]

SO2 made me like Maniac a lot, so I'm glad there's a lot more of him in WC3&4. He's already pretty likable in WC3, though the dynamic with Blair is different since Blair's a commanding officer now. And he isn't a red-eyed shaman anymore.

I almost regret letting him die in WC1.

I was going to say... that's non canon, Maniac dies horribly in WC1.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

Maniac dies horribly in WC1.

as soon as his first mission begins. by your hand.

 

[HeroMarine]

Maniac dies horribly in WC1.

as soon as his first mission begins. by your hand.

Spoilers?

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

no, just common sense.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

Just discovered the Shelton Slide in WC3. I probably should've read the manual earlier. Kinda lame that you can only do it in two of the ships but it's still a lot of fun, and it gives me a reason to pick the Arrow over the more well-armed ships.

 

[LarryTyphoid]

I asked this same question on the GOG forums, but maybe I'll have more luck with the tech-savvy denizens of the Codex:


Has anyone else run into an issue with Wing Commander 3 where the game crashes during a cutscene? After the mission where you protect the Victory while it's escaping from Kilrathi territory, there's a cutscene in which two kilrathi are discussing the escape. The leader says "The emperor must not know of the success of the Terran incursion". While the subordinate is replying with "My thoughts exactly, my liege", the game crashes.

When I run DOSBox through a console, an error message starts rapidly appearing, which says "CDROM: GetTrack at sector 402613 is outside the playable range", then "sbpro1: dsp was reset".

I reinstalled the game (and played through all of it to that point again because I did not back up my save), and changed SoundBlaster Pro to SoundBlaster 16 (both in my .conf file and in the game's installer), but the problem persisted. This time, though, the cutscene noticeably slowed down and began to stutter before the crash. I haven't yet recorded the error messages I'd get from this configuration because I have to play through the mission again.

On my first configuration, though, I skipped past this cutscene and was able to continue. However, every single cutscene would lead to a crash, from the argument between Hobbes and Cobra on the flight deck, to the briefing screen, making further progress impossible.

I suspect that these crashes are a result of the game requiring a disk swap before the Ariel System levels begin; something is wrong with the way GOG has mounted the disks, and so the game cannot properly access the FMV cutscenes after a certain point (previous cutscenes proceeding the disk change worked perfectly - maybe these cutscenes are still stored on the first disk? Unlikely; perhaps memory just runs out after a certain point and the second disk can't be read besides the first few cutscenes and missions).

I've search and searched but nobody else seems to have encountered this issue. Has anyone got a clue?