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The Witcher Witcher 3 was too big and had bad pacing

Old Hans

Arcane
Joined
Oct 10, 2011
Messages
1,615
The Witcher 3 has many filler quest but they are made interesting anyway because they have some backstory.
what was wrong with Witcher 3 pacing?
they give you this big area to explore, but at the same time it has this narrative that's all "holly shit we gotta find Ciri!!1"

even when you do stick the main story it still feels like clunky. The Blood Baron quest line feels like Geralt is just wasting his time & everyone knows it except him.

Isn't that how every single open world rpg works?
only the ones scrapping the bottom of the barrel for ideas. You can tell they just threw in those witcher armor blueprints at the last minute. Even dragon quest 8, which had a pretty big world to explore had interesting unique items inside the chests. witcher 3 has rope ladders & another version of that sword you just threw in the garbage, but this one does 4% more boring shit.
 

moon knight

Matt7895's alt
Joined
Apr 7, 2015
Messages
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Italy
witcher 3 itemizing & crafting feels like it was added in the last weekend of development. it was total trash. Witcher 1 had a really good balance & then they decided they needed color coded diablo loot bullshit

It was the safest and easiest way to fill a huge open world. It's not wrong in principle but it needed more "tuning".

they give you this big area to explore, but at the same time it has this narrative that's all "holly shit we gotta find Ciri!!1

Meh. It's not a race against time.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,326
I just hope they have better reward for the side quest. In Witcher 3 the equipment you get from doing those quest are useless, and it only grants a small amount of experience comparing to the major quest, so you pretty much get nothing for doing them.
That's a more a problem of the itemization in general.

witcher 3 itemizing & crafting feels like it was added in the last weekend of development. it was total trash. Witcher 1 had a really good balance & then they decided they needed color coded diablo loot bullshit
Because it was, I posted a link to the article a while back how the economy was completely redone at the last moment (and how they thought they did a great job with it)
 

Old Hans

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Oct 10, 2011
Messages
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I just hope they have better reward for the side quest. In Witcher 3 the equipment you get from doing those quest are useless, and it only grants a small amount of experience comparing to the major quest, so you pretty much get nothing for doing them.
That's a more a problem of the itemization in general.

witcher 3 itemizing & crafting feels like it was added in the last weekend of development. it was total trash. Witcher 1 had a really good balance & then they decided they needed color coded diablo loot bullshit
Because it was, I posted a link to the article a while back how the economy was completely redone at the last moment (and how they thought they did a great job with it)

ah I never knew that. I managed to find the article & holy shit.

"The Witcher 3's economy, crafting, and inventory systems. These three core elements of the game were "fragmented and incomplete" to the point that "there was no time left in the project to accomplish everything by the deadline." no wonder everything felt so shitty
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
Witcher 3 had lots of unremarkable empty space between points of awesome. The graphics were quite pretty on a moment by moment basis, but so much of the map was completely forgettable. Whatever flaws Skyrim had, I couldn’t walk 10 feet without seeing something interesting off in the distance. 80% of the Witcher 3 map was just a blur.
 

ScrotumBroth

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In
Yep, same goes for the Nilfgaard camp, just half done. Lots of half done all around, it's best to just stick to the main quest.
 

aeroaeko

Learned
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
159
this makes zero sense, the side quests and optional content was by far the best aspect of the game.
 

Mazisky

Magister
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Rome, IT
Witcher 3 had lots of unremarkable empty space between points of awesome. The graphics were quite pretty on a moment by moment basis, but so much of the map was completely forgettable. Whatever flaws Skyrim had, I couldn’t walk 10 feet without seeing something interesting off in the distance. 80% of the Witcher 3 map was just a blur.

Are you talking about the same dungeons and assets they copy-pasted throughout the whole map? Because that's the impression i had when playing Skyrim. Quantity over quality i guess.

Witcher 3 may be more sparse but it has quality content.
 

Frozen

Arcane
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
8,453
Witcher 3 was already too big. Cyberpunk will be also. More is not always better. If a RPG is longer than 35 hours and remains engaging it is truly exceptional.

If they put a time stamp on finding Ciri, like water chip from Fallout 1 it would fixed unrealistic passing and give you replayability.
 

Mazisky

Magister
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Let's be honest: Rockstar games and CdProjectRed were the only capable of creating the most believable open worlds in the last decade, regardless if their games are good or not.
 

Chippy

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May 5, 2018
Messages
6,090
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The major flaw for me is that I autistically did just about everything and hit max level before half of the game content. Then I started again, and installed a load of mods that expanded the class slots, traits (whatever it was called) and still maxed out almost before then end, and before I tackled the vampire DLC set in France. It might still be interesting because I've yet to get access to the mutagens.
If you're gonna do a massive single player game, content isn't an issue, you need to keep people' interest with the XP bellcurve as well.
I really need to get back to that game...
 
Joined
Sep 16, 2016
Messages
296
I liked how big the world was in TW3. Not so big that it wasted a ton of your time, but not so small as to feel weirdly cramped and compact (like Bethesda games often do). I thought there was just enough stuff happening around the open world to keep things fresh, but I also liked the combat quite a bit so that helps.
 

Gerrard

Arcane
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
12,326
Velen wasn't big enough, the fucking Nilgaardian army is camping 20 minutes walk away from Novigrad for fuck's sake.
 

JDR13

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The Swamp
Witcher 3 was already too big. Cyberpunk will be also. More is not always better. If a RPG is longer than 35 hours and remains engaging it is truly exceptional.

While I agree TW3 is too big in some ways, and I got a little burned-out before the end, I was engaged for a lot longer than 35 hours.
 

sser

Arcane
Developer
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Mar 10, 2011
Messages
1,866,734
Witcher 3's side-content is vastly superior to virtually all other action RPGs I've played so in this case I'll allow some poor pacing.
 

JDR13

Arcane
Joined
Nov 2, 2006
Messages
3,973
Location
The Swamp
The major flaw for me is that I autistically did just about everything and hit max level before half of the game content. Then I started again, and installed a load of mods that expanded the class slots, traits (whatever it was called) and still maxed out almost before then end, and before I tackled the vampire DLC set in France. It might still be interesting because I've yet to get access to the mutagens.
If you're gonna do a massive single player game, content isn't an issue, you need to keep people' interest with the XP bellcurve as well.
I really need to get back to that game...

Is that really a flaw though? Games have to be designed so that even people who don't do a ton of side-quests can still acquire enough XP to be able to finish the game.

Most people aren't OCD about trying to complete every single quest in games like this.
 

Master

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
1,160
Witcher 3 had lots of unremarkable empty space between points of awesome.
That's the key. Those dead spaces are what makes a world feel believable, in contrast with the smalled and crammed maps Bethesda makes.
Gothics and Risen 1 didnt have much or any dead spaces. There was always *something* just ten seconds away. Yet they were 100% believable.
 

Incendax

Augur
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Messages
892
Yeah. I felt like Blood & Wine was a big improvement (relatively speaking) in making good use of space. There were some empty spots, but you really didn’t have to go far to get to the next cool story or beautiful sight. Unlike the main Witcher 3 campaign where you could gallop for several minutes and stumble across nothing in particular.

The emptiness in the main campaign actually reminded me of Kingdoms of Amalur.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
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Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
"Poor pacing" is not a different way to say "this game had too much". You can have little content but poor pacing if it is say frontloaded.

Witcher did have poor pacing though, mostly because the way they gated main story to specific locations as individual chapters felt more like they tried to force it to be more open world than it needed to be, not because it had loads of side content or whatever which are all optional. If you get lost doing side content that is not poor pacing and probably related to how interesting main quest is compared to side content.

There is a trend in filling the world with bunch of collectables for 100% autists but maybe don't be a 100% autist?
 

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