Wiz 8 questions

[Anthony Davis]

I played Wiz8 when it first came out, and I beat it... thought I don't remember much about it.

Crooked Bee's thread about Ian and Linda had some complaints and it got me thinking about the game again.

What I remember about combat, was that if I was out numbered, I always backed into a corner somewhere to prevent getting flanked.

Is that how everyone else played it too?

Also, I don't remember every changing classes, there just didn't seem to be a real point to it.

What did I miss about that?



I ask this because after having a lot of fun with Grimrock, I'm thinking of either playing Wiz8 again, or Stonekeep, or the Lands of Lore games.

 

[Renegen]

Longtime Wizardry 8 player, I've done at least 7 playthroughs.

Yes, everyone backed away in a corner and hunkered down for the enemy. Wizardry 8 is a very interesting game because it is very different from Grimrock or Lands of Lore or Stonekeep, it's very tactical and its combat can be very in-depth. And yet they look similar. If you want to walk confidently and not be afraid to be ambushed, being a bit heavy on the magic helps. Status effect spells are extremely powerful. You could cast Freeze Flesh to mass paralyze everyone, or Insanity to cause mass insanity or Blinding Flash for mass blindness or Terror/Sonic Boom to disperse them. Better yet, cast a few of them in the same turn and follow that with some AoE spells. Understanding how to use spells in what situations is very important. The other thing to remember is what type of monsters you're facing. They all have different makeups, but a lot of them follow the "high DPS, low hp, high numbers" approach, if you encounter monsters with "high hp, medium dps" then you'll want to rely more on your melee and hide in a corner. Some monsters can even be outrun and you can circle strafe them with ranged attacks.

Wizardry 8 is a special game because with all that complexity it does succeed very well in being balanced. Basically the game rewards specialists. You have huge latitude to play as a dwarven mage or a fairy warrior and pump sense or mace skills, but if you go for the traditional builds and race/class combos you will do very well. Pick the right race, put all the skill points in the immediate combat or magic skills you'll need, select spells at level up and everything will work out fine. The game is also balanced around items as it's very difficult to improve damage for example without getting a better weapon so don't try to save money and search well. A crappy beginner sword is better than a level 15 quarter staff wielding mage that has a lot of experience with staves. There is no reason to dual class, and I would also advise you don't go too heavy on hybrid classes (lord, ninja, bishop etc) if you're not experienced.

 

[Anthony Davis]

Longtime Wizardry 8 player, I've done at least 7 playthroughs.

Yes, everyone backed away in a corner and hunkered down for the enemy. Wizardry 8 is a very interesting game because it is very different from Grimrock or Lands of Lore or Stonekeep, it's very tactical and its combat can be very in-depth. And yet they look similar. If you want to walk confidently and not be afraid to be ambushed, being a bit heavy on the magic helps. Status effect spells are extremely powerful. You could cast Freeze Flesh to mass paralyze everyone, or Insanity to cause mass insanity or Blinding Flash for mass blindness or Terror/Sonic Boom to disperse them. Better yet, cast a few of them in the same turn and follow that with some AoE spells. Understanding how to use spells in what situations is very important. The other thing to remember is what type of monsters you're facing. They all have different makeups, but a lot of them follow the "high DPS, low hp, high numbers" approach, if you encounter monsters with "high hp, medium dps" then you'll want to rely more on your melee and hide in a corner. Some monsters can even be outrun and you can circle strafe them with ranged attacks.

Wizardry 8 is a special game because with all that complexity it does succeed very well in being balanced. Basically the game rewards specialists. You have huge latitude to play as a dwarven mage or a fairy warrior and pump sense or mace skills, but if you go for the traditional builds and race/class combos you will do very well. Pick the right race, put all the skill points in the immediate combat or magic skills you'll need, select spells at level up and everything will work out fine. The game is also balanced around items as it's very difficult to improve damage for example without getting a better weapon so don't try to save money and search well. A crappy beginner sword is better than a level 15 quarter staff wielding mage that has a lot of experience with staves. There is no reason to dual class, and I would also advise you don't go too heavy on hybrid classes (lord, ninja, bishop etc) if you're not experienced.

Ok, so I wasn't crazy then how I remember combat and how I played the combat.


As far as the class changing, I didn't make any crazy class combos. For example I think I had a Draconian Fighter, a Lizard Figher, Mook Ranger, Hobbit Gadgeteer, etc, and I don't remember EVER changing classes

I was just wondering if anyone did and can point out a compelling reason to actually change classes?

For example, I've played all of the older Wizardry games and I remember changing classes in 7, though I don't remember why...

Gettin old sux.

 

[Renegen]

Without cheating and grinding like crazy, there's few reasons to change classes. You could go from a mage to a Samurai for example, which is simply the reverse way of having a hybrid except one that's strongest in magic followed by some combat skills. Above all the game offers flexibility for those who want a different party. Maybe a fighter to ranger change would be interesting for example. Or a low level bard to a combat class.

 

[DraQ]

Backing in the corner is good (unless you want to run), because it works like any other chokepoint - it limits the number of enemies and directions they can hit you from.

Changing classes depends on your playstyle, I was never much of a switcher, but there can definitely be a point to switching from caster to hybrid, or making your Bard into something else at high level if you don't love bard-specific gear that much (because beyond the gear there is little reason to stay bard, instruments can be used by anyone with music and bard levels).


As for flexibility, there are very few race-class combinations that are genuinely bad and don't have surprise highlights.

 

[hoverdog]

Just to chime in: I found making a priest and switching him to lord at lvl 2 very useful. He gets a jumpstart on spells (and you can never have enough healing), while hardly sacrificing any combat prowess.

If only Arnika road wasn't always infested by level-scaled mobs

 

[DraQ]

Just to chime in: I found making a priest and switching him to lord at lvl 2 very useful. He gets a jumpstart on spells (and you can never have enough healing), while hardly sacrificing any combat prowess.

He also gets skill points that are already in maces rather than daggers, though I'm not sure getting something like stiletto in the offhand and good +crit gear would be all that bad for a lord, despite measly damage and everyone switching to maces because of "Diamond Eyes, man" - which is definitely a respectable reason.

 

[hoverdog]

Just to chime in: I found making a priest and switching him to lord at lvl 2 very useful. He gets a jumpstart on spells (and you can never have enough healing), while hardly sacrificing any combat prowess.

He also gets skill points that are already in maces rather than daggers, though I'm not sure getting something like stiletto in the offhand and good +crit gear would be all that bad for a lord, despite measly damage and everyone switching to maces because of "Diamond Eyes, man" - which is definitely a respectable reason.

oh yes, that's the other thing. man, it's been a long time since I last played Wiz8 (that unfortunate shitty buggy modded LP)...

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Get a faerie ninja. The fact that they cater so much to that class had to be the result of some kind of in-house joke.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Hmm, never thought of using a Lord wielding stilettos.
Not a bad concept methinks.
It could be very useful on my Lizardman thief who dual wields Berserker with that blade. Not a bad idea at all.

 

[DraQ]

Hmm, never thought of using a Lord wielding stilettos.
Not a bad concept methinks.
It could be very useful on my Lizardman thief who dual wields Berserker with that blade. Not a bad idea at all.

Neither have I, just speculating - Fang + Stiletto + some headgear with +crit might work.
Then again, if you want +crit, then why the fuck aren't you using samurai, monk or ninja?

 

[Internet]

There was a very powerful artifact that only faerie ninjas could use, if I remember correctly.

I think the way multi-class worked in Wiz 8 your character would lose the old class' special skills, keep that in mind if you want to replay the game.

 

[Black]

Longtime Wizardry 8 player, I've done at least 7 playthroughs.

Seems to be the magic number.

There was a very powerful artifact that only faerie ninjas could use, if I remember correctly.

Staff of Corpus or something, p fucking good. Even has solo fairy ninjas builds centered around it... Uh, centered or centred?

Anyway, I found myself making almost exclusively female-only parties just because of those god damn female only stamina regenerating amulets.

Like our forum scally, I never actually multiclassed in Wiz 8, I was content with how the classes worked.
If you want an interesting playthrough and haven't done it already, try going for a party that has no "vanilla" classes in it.
My by far the most powerful and fun to play party was the one which had an Alchemist, Bishop, Gadgeteer, Bard, Samurai and something else in it.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Even has solo fairy ninjas builds centered around it... Uh, centered or centred?

Depends on whether you are :patriot: or

 

[DraQ]

Two sets of questions:

1. Can samurai LS with staves?

tl;dr:
SoD LS with maxed out crit



2.

-For (non-faerie) melee Ninja build (sword+dagger) dualing to Rogue after maxing out crit - would offhand stiletto (10% kill, vs at best 5% kill) make up for the loss of class bonus to crit? What if we factor in items such as Assassin Cap?

-For crit ninja or samurai - how does extra attack/swing compare with %kill on weapon in terms of actual crit chance?

tl;dr:
Dragon cannot into Wiz8 crit-math.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

No one can into Wiz8 crit math so no one will answer this question precisely. From reading discussions on various forums I remember that people claimed every 25 points in crit skill giving 1%, so it's bad and ninja's bonus would only give +1%. I'm completely unsure how crit skill combines with crit chance from weapons. Do they combine or are there two separate rolls or whatever :itisamystery:

 

[Major_Blackhart]

I don't see why Samurai cannot LS with staves.

 

[uaciaut]

Is there any mod that lets you create a full (8 member) party rather than 6? Asking this because most NPC's suck.

 

[DraQ]

I don't see why Samurai cannot LS with staves.

Me neither, but is it confirmed to work?

 

[Invictus]

I usually start off with a rawulf priest to switch to lord or valkyre arround level 4; gives them a great jump in healing magic right at the start of the game, plus they are decent fighters to start with.
Then a mook alchemist to switch to ranger arroind level 4 (develops more slowly but gives early access to various effective spells and again healing
Third an elf ninja to provide a real combatant and to start increasing the critical skill
Next up is a dracon bishop, which needs to be developed VERY carefully as to not be a jack of all trades; either he is an offensive mage or a support healer but probably not wise to try both
For the 5th char I use a psonic (felpur works well) which can be very effective as a pure area effect caster instead of a bard
And lastly a mage which can switched to bard or samurai depending the mood, since both the samurai and bard gear and items top out arround the mid level point in the game I prefer to keep them pure mage.
I would recommend grinding quite a bit in the monsastery after switching the priest and alchemist so they can get some melee experience from the safer mobs of the monstery which take a lot of physical dmage (especialy slimes) and are great for safe grinding and getting up your skills.
Don't level more than level 5 with your party members to avoid blood vines and all sorts of unbalanced encounters in arnika road

 

[Major_Blackhart]

Fuck, don't give it all away to any newcomers.

 

[coldcrow]

You can beat vanilla Wiz8 with almost any party. You can use those dual-class suggestions outlined above, but monoclass characters work aswell, you just need a bit more grinding (which isn't all that much actually).
An alltime favourite party of mine is the Piety party. You want 3-4 spellcasters, ideally bishops and for the frontline Valks/Lords. You trade firststrike ability and some melee damage for the highest possible spellpoints and Iron Will on all characters. Valk/Lords would be skilld as true hybrids (pie/str), which eases the tedium of raising their divinity. Iron Will is the best ability in the game, you do not even need soul/element shield anymore and it reduces the chance of special attack effects heavily.

 

[DefJam101]

wizardry 8 really is not an exceptionally hard game and certainly not one you'd need spoilers to complete. so don't read spoilers.

basically any strategy / party can work if you know the game in-depth, and any basic status effect / melee party will steamroll 90% of combats

 

[theSavant]

any basic status effect / melee party will steamcrawl with the speed of a snail 90% of combats

fixed

 

[treborSux]

Wizardry 8 isn't nearly as autistic or interesting as Wizardry 6 and 7. You can pretty much make any party you want and be ok. Wizardry 8 balanced most of the classes to make all characters evenly sucky.