Wizardry Wizardry: Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord remake by Digital Eclipse

[Covenant]

That one guy in the Codex who refuses to play older games because of "bad" graphics.

I recently (in the last 5 years) replayed stuff like W6, W7, Lands of Lore, Betrayal at Krondor, Ishar, Ravenloft, Albion, Battle Isle 2. Shit from the early 1990s in short. And had an absolute blast. Maybe because that's the shit I grew up with as a wee lad.

But no, I can't into wireframes with text. I'm autistic but not that much.

Lands of Lore still looks better than a lot of the shit put out nowadays, not sure why it was included in that list.

 

[vitellus]

I'm autistic but not that much

i played a lot of roguelikes and dwarf fortress for too many years to be really bothered by it. playing atom rpg yesterday got me thinking about graphical fidelity in gaming and how, while nice, ultimately doesn't mean too much to me as it boils down to "dice" rolls. i get the same thrill of victory from realm of the mad overlord as i do from a victory in knights of the chalice or underrail. if the combat is solid, i don't need a story or very much in the way of graphics but your mileage may vary; it's why the gold box games are top notch and still copied to this day.

 

[octavius]

Personally I draw the line with ASCII graphics.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

How about ASCII - Vector line gfx where the ascii is the lines and forms?

You run into a cat warming itself by a campfire.

Uh oh! Dungeon bitch is mad she has ascii titties.

“Let’s see what she’s hiding.:-D”

It is a wave of excitement.

EVEN I HAVE BECOME ASCII!!!!

 

[Jrpgfan]

I'm autistic but not that much

i played a lot of roguelikes and dwarf fortress for too many years to be really bothered by it. playing atom rpg yesterday got me thinking about graphical fidelity in gaming and how, while nice, ultimately doesn't mean too much to me as it boils down to "dice" rolls. i get the same thrill of victory from realm of the mad overlord as i do from a victory in knights of the chalice or underrail. if the combat is solid, i don't need a story or very much in the way of graphics but your mileage may vary; it's why the gold box games are top notch and still copied to this day.

"Looks don't matter"

Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

I'm not really picky when it comes to graphics but wireframe is too much even for me. I really envy whoever manages to get enjoyment out of it.

 

[vitellus]

How about ASCII - Vector line gfx where the ascii is the lines and forms

i could totally play either one of those provided the gameplay is good. something like ultima iv gets a huge pass on nostalgia and historic value but the combat is boring garbage compared to something like wiz1 which...

"Looks don't matter"

...would have to be one charming motherfucker for looks not to matter and since i'm not trying to stick my dick in a game, looks definitely take a backseat to substance and good gameplay/combat/explo etc and wiz1 has that in spades.

 

[SpurdoFan]

Does the identify glitch still work?

Let me answer my own question: No. The Apple 2 Interface shows the option to press I)dentify, but the actual interface doesn't let you do it. At all actually. I could only identify items in the shop.

Call me a filthy casual, but I like the automatic mapping, although it resets everytime you leave and reenter. Whether this or one of the 2000 other ports is the best to play, I can't tell you.

 

[Covenant]

Call me a filthy casual, but I like the automatic mapping, although it resets everytime you leave and reenter. Whether this or one of the 2000 other ports is the best to play, I can't tell you.

I've never really understood the people who are so vehemently anti-automap. Filling in lines on graph paper is near-impossible to fail at. It's just busywork. Now, sure, don't let it be a slippery slope into real decline - I don't want a quest compass, or the map to already be filled in from the start - but frankly, I've got better things to do with my time than repeatedly switching out between Excel or Grid Cartographer or a pencil and paper or whatever mapping tool you prefer.

I'm all for a challenge, but mapping isn't it (short of spinners/teleporters, which 90% of the time are done in such a way that it still doesn't require any brainpower to actually navigate); give me harder combat or puzzles instead.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

I suppose this don’t work…

 

[Be Kind Rewind]

I've never really understood the people who are so vehemently anti-automap.

It's an integral part of the game, might as well go full bethtard if you can't handle mapping out a dungeon. Age of Decadence is a game made for the likes of you, it teleports you around since you have better things to do than explore and walk around.

 

[KeighnMcDeath]

Sir Tech even helps you out a little: HERE!

Print that out and GO!

 

[Covenant]

I've never really understood the people who are so vehemently anti-automap.

It's an integral part of the game, might as well go full bethtard if you can't handle mapping out a dungeon. Age of Decadence is a game made for the likes of you, it teleports you around since you have better things to do than explore and walk around.

Can you make an actual argument though? Seriously, I would love to understand it; what are you 'handling' by doing the map yourself, rather than the program automatically filling it in as you travel? Explain to me how it's any different than making me unequip one weapon before equipping another (rather than having trying to equip the second one automatically swap them), for example.

 

[octavius]

It's just part of the challenge of the game.
It's like doing combat manually instead of using quick combat, or finding your way to a quest object armed only with directions instead of a magical quest compass.
And in combat heavy games, like the Bard's Tale games, it makes for more varied gameplay.

 

[JarlFrank]

 

[Casual Hero]

I still haven't bought it yet, but I was super curious about the music in the game. I mean, the original Japanese ports of Wizardry 1-3 had music composed by Kentaro Haneda, and they are nothing short of iconic. What direction would this remake take the ost in?

So I searched youtube for some actual gameplay to try to hear the music that plays in-game, and imagine my utter shock when I am greeted with a heavily remixed medley of Haneda's music playing on the town screen.

WHAT?

I have no idea how they got to use his music, but it is absolutely a remix of the music present in the Japanese NES port. The battle and dungeon theme are even closer to the NES port than the town theme. Super weird, but a good surprise.
I only wish that each building in the town had its own theme, like how Haneda did it.

 

[Be Kind Rewind]

Can you make an actual argument though?

I don't know how to explain video games to brown people. Why aren't items sold automatically to vendors and the best items automatically equipped? Why do players need to walk to vendors in RPGs in the first place, why aren't items converted to currency directly if they aren't better than what the party is wearing? Why aren't all video games barely interactive movies and idle games?

Wizardry is a game designed with mapping out the dungeon by hand in mind, there are gameplay elements that directly tie into this. It's fun, it makes you interact with the gameworld differently than if it was handed to you on a plate and provides you with more unknowns to discover.

 

[Casual Hero]

Yeah, mapping by hand is fun.
If you actually sit down and try it, you might find out that you love it; I certainly do.

If you don't enjoy mapping things out on paper, then I think it is similar to not enjoying FPS games, or Myst-clones. It doesn't mean that it is bad design, lazy devs, or outdated mechanics. It simply means that it isn't your cup of tea. It is still fun, and a very valid form of gaming.

 

[mondblut]

I recently (in the last 5 years) replayed stuff like W6, W7, Lands of Lore, Betrayal at Krondor, Ishar, Ravenloft, Albion, Battle Isle 2. Shit from the early 1990s in short. And had an absolute blast. Maybe because that's the shit I grew up with as a wee lad.

But no, I can't into wireframes with text. I'm autistic but not that much.

Lands of Lore still looks better than a lot of the shit put out nowadays, not sure why it was included in that list.

And W7. And Ishar. And...

 

[Grauken]

Personally I draw the line with ASCII graphics.

ASCII can have a lot of charm

 

[mondblut]

It's just part of the challenge of the game.
It's like doing combat manually instead of using quick combat, or finding your way to a quest object armed only with directions instead of a magical quest compass.
And in combat heavy games, like the Bard's Tale games, it makes for more varied gameplay.

Tedium is never "part of the challenge". It just forces you to stop for a few seconds after taking each step. And if automaps make spinner and teleport traps moot, good riddance! (and it is easily fixed anyway, see Demise)

 

[Casual Hero]

It's just part of the challenge of the game.
It's like doing combat manually instead of using quick combat, or finding your way to a quest object armed only with directions instead of a magical quest compass.
And in combat heavy games, like the Bard's Tale games, it makes for more varied gameplay.

Tedium is never "part of the challenge". It just forces you to stop for a few seconds after taking each step. And if automaps make spinner and teleport traps moot, good riddance! (and it is easily fixed anyway, see Demise)

its fun, and i get a cool piece of paper to look back at. pure satisfaction.
if you dont like it, then you dont like it--- not bad design.

 

[Grauken]

I've got better things to do with my time than repeatedly switching out between Excel or Grid Cartographer

Just use two monitors, and before you say this is expensive, I use a decade old 2nd monitor that I got for 10 bucks and it works like a charm for mapping

 

[mondblut]

its fun, and i get a cool piece of paper to look back at. pure satisfaction.

I did my share of it back in the 90s (I never originally figured the automap in Wiz7, for fucksakes), and I don't want to anymore.

if you dont like it, then you dont like it--- not bad design.

You know what's good design?

This.

 

[Casual Hero]

I hate to sound argumentative, but is Wizardry even that much fun without mapping?
I don't get why you'd even want to play it in that case, because then it really can start to feel tedious. You just play a minimap.

 

[mondblut]

I hate to sound argumentative, but is Wizardry even that much fun without mapping?

The first five? Not so much, but they ain't that fun with mapping either. Some neolithic artifacts are better left in neolith.