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Game News Wizards & Warriors released on GOG

V_K

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W&W is way better than all of those put together.
Only if you ignore Grimoire, that is.
Nope. W&W has a manual.
Sort of. It autopauses while waiting for your orders, but unpauses if you start moving or open the inventory. It's not twitchy/2-step dance if that's what you're worried about.
So.... it's... RTwP?
Essentially, yes. But it feels much closer to turn-based than IE-style RtWP. Honestly, I think it's a much better system for a continuous-movement blobber than the one in Wiz8 - battles last a lot less while not losing much of tactical complexity (if at all).
 

Roqua

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I think W&W is a good game, but there is a reason it never reached the status of Wiz8 for people who loves this kind of shit, even though it arguable has better chargen and chardev - the content just isn't as good, and I think the combat isn't nearly as good. Is it a good game worth playing? Yes, definitely. I don't think it is at the same level of MMX, Grimoire, or Wiz7/8. When it came out it failed to attain cult status because it neither made fans of the MM6-8 type of blobber, nor fans of the Wiz7/8 type go all a weak in the knees with its greatness.

Personally, I grouped it with POR:ROMD - it was a good game worth playing that other people were shitting on for reasons I didn't understand (other than the drive wipe thing). I could understand MM9 and the reasons people from all camps thought it was lacking (even though I enjoyed it more than them). Its a good game, just not a great game. But it is great it is being enjoyed by people now - it just sucks that GoG didn't make it work out the box without still relying on fan fixes.
 

Raghar

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Best part was that cave where you were changed into a big dumb smelling ogre. If you was able to cast spells, you casting success rate dropped by 80 percent or so. At least with difficult spells.

As I said. It should be freeware, not something that should be milked for money again and again.
 

Crispy

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For those of you still kind of on the fence about this game because you're not sure whether it's RTwP or TB or something in-between, here's a brief summary of how it works. Roqua, et al, please correct me on anything I get wrong:

- While you're exploring in the game, which features full mouselook and even WASD movement if you configure it so (it's actually p. cool this way), enemies move freely and the game is fully in real-time. In this fashion, the game is a lot like a first-person shooter. If, and only if, you decide to target and attack an enemy, AND, only if you have the game's options configured so (there is a hotkey for turning TB-mode on and off in addition to an in-game slider controlling the game's "speed"), that's when the game goes into turn-based (or actually phased-based; see below) mode.

- Once in TB-mode, the game indicates which character's turn it is to act, and he does so. In a phase-based fashion, the enemies will also act on their turn, specifically for attacking. I believe the exact order of this is based on Dexterity, or the speed statistic, but I could be wrong. Enemies are free to maneuver during combat, so they may (and frequently do) try to surround you, putting your backline characters in harm's way. You can also move, as a blob of course, but should do so cautiously, because you have to be quite close to enemies -- basically kissing them -- to be within melee range. The patch(es) that Roqua recommends alter this aspect a little, making the reach for certain weapons like spears a little longer.

- Crucially, if you get in over your head during a fight, you can actually just run for it, even using a sprint key, and that puts the game back into real-time mode unless, I think, you're actually struck with something or you decide to re-engage.

- The manual states that combat can be paused and put into phase-based mode through other actions besides attacking, such as clicking on a spellbook to decide what to cast, but since I'm still reacquainting myself with the game I haven't tried that yet.

---

Some other notes:

- Going through the patching and modding list that Roqua posted is certainly worth it. Running in the modded higher resolution really helps a lot on modern large monitors, and the balance and other alterations are very welcome. The game is still quite challenging but not frustratingly so (so far).

- I'm experimenting with the game's speed adjustment, but there's something about its pseudo-realtime component that adds a uniqueness to the game. It's similar to Wizardry 8, of course, but just different enough to not feel you're playing the same game.

- There are enough "modern" touches to the game, such as right-click functionality, bindable keys, some fairly well-done voiceovers, etc., to make one smile and appreciate the game more. Playing Bard's Tale Trilogy, in contrast, is also a lot of fun, but even with its graphical overhaul and addition of convenience features it still feels extremely primitive (which is to be expected, seeing as it was released 15 years earlier!) compared to W&W.

- There is noticeable mouse lag running the game on my system (Windows 10) but it's nothing that I couldn't get used to within 5 minutes. Messing around with the mouse settings in Control Panel seems to help a tiny bit, but it's not worth it to have to change those every time I want to play the game so I just said forget it. Everyone complaining vehemently about it at GoG and elsewhere are either exaggerating like hell or have some oddball setup going on with their mouse.

- Play this game. It's six bucks, ffs.
 
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Roqua

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I agree but Wiz8 did a lot better in letting you know if something like an AoE spell would hurt your party members too, or if your party members were in reach or how to protect them, etc. This combat is more spamming and less tactical.

What I'd really like to know is if the exe is tied to gameplay or can effect gameplay. I tried using just the DLLs of the mod and not the mod's included exe. I just replayed W&W a couple, maybe three eyars ago and don't remember getting 1 and only 1 skill point on level up no matter how many times I save scummed. My party ranges in intelligence from 8 to 14. My memory sucks but I remember getting at least 3 skill points on level up. I have always played with the full mod since the game was originally released. I'm not sure if something is messed up so I am hesitant to continue. The mod states

Characters will be granted quite a few more skill points per level. They will receive ((Int / 4) + (CurLevel / 2)) skill points, with a minimum of 1 every level. If their level in their current class is not their highest level, this number will be halved (again, with a minimum of 1). This balances the ridiculous number of skill points necessary to increase skills past level 5 or 6 via regular level ups.

At 14 int at lvl 1 and 2 I should have gotten more than one. Even at eight int. At level 2 my 8 int guys would be ((2)+(1)) skill points, right?

Did you replace the exe, Crispy? I didn't because I think it changed something graphics-wise and made my mouse a little more laggy. But I was also figuring the exe changed nothing but the no-cd hack and graphic script and wouldn't change the game systems or mechanics? I am not a tech guy and have no idea how that shit actually works though.
 

Strange Fellow

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The manual said:
Here we are at last with the game where it truly belongs: in your hands.

In the end, the only thing that will matter is whether you, the player, have derived any enjoyment from embarking upon the many strange journeys that are waiting inside this fanciful creation. The worlds of Wizards & Warriors exist to challenge you; to test your resolve, wits, and daring; and victory will not often come easy. But if along the way you perchance discover something about your own mettle, or if it provides you with even a momentary taste of being alive in a world far different from our own, then the goal of this creation has been accomplished, and its deed achieved.

I bid fortune smile upon you in your travels through these distant lands.

- D.W.Bradley
:love:
 

Crispy

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Did you replace the exe, Crispy?

Yes, exactly according to the instructions. I think you have to in order to take advantage of the resolution mod.

I even compared it to what is listed as the higher 1024x768, and I know it's working because that looked much worse.
 
Repressed Homosexual
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The manual said:
Here we are at last with the game where it truly belongs: in your hands.

In the end, the only thing that will matter is whether you, the player, have derived any enjoyment from embarking upon the many strange journeys that are waiting inside this fanciful creation. The worlds of Wizards & Warriors exist to challenge you; to test your resolve, wits, and daring; and victory will not often come easy. But if along the way you perchance discover something about your own mettle, or if it provides you with even a momentary taste of being alive in a world far different from our own, then the goal of this creation has been accomplished, and its deed achieved.

I bid fortune smile upon you in your travels through these distant lands.

- D.W.Bradley
:love:

He was truly a genius and a one of a kind. His games had such a unique whimsical style and were about pure imagination.

I prefer that to 10000 hipster indie games.
 

Roqua

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His games had such a unique whimsical style and were about pure imagination.

Dungeon Lords had such a great chargen and chardev system in the original game (the new steam version really gutted it though). If it wasn't so linear and had some small real cities/towns with shops and npcs and shit it would be a much better game regardless of the combat.
 

Roqua

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Yes, exactly according to the instructions. I think you have to in order to take advantage of the resolution mod.

I guess I'll have to restart and just treat the steam version like the CD version in which case I just wasted my money.

I just want to confirm though - exe files do seem to impact gameplay and mechanics somehow? I can see them pulling like graphic scripts or checking for cds, but I thought gameplay and mechanics would come from the DLLs and other files.
 
Repressed Homosexual
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His games had such a unique whimsical style and were about pure imagination.

Dungeon Lords had such a great chargen and chardev system in the original game (the new steam version really gutted it though). If it wasn't so linear and had some small real cities/towns with shops and npcs and shit it would be a much better game regardless of the combat.

I really don't understand what's the deal about this game. I think it bombed hard and as such he was unable to get further investor funding. So the only thing he could do to have Heuristic Park subsist as more than a shell was make a couple of low cost improvements to it and re-release it. And now Heuristic Park is back to being a shell.

It's obvious he was never good with graphics. He just wanted to tell silly stories in strange worlds with strange and attaching characters, with intriguing dungeons and a deep gameplay system underlying it all. But modern graphics are destructive to all of this. They don't make you dream, they only make you realize how much they're all in the uncanny Valley.
 

Roqua

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
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His games had such a unique whimsical style and were about pure imagination.

Dungeon Lords had such a great chargen and chardev system in the original game (the new steam version really gutted it though). If it wasn't so linear and had some small real cities/towns with shops and npcs and shit it would be a much better game regardless of the combat.

I really don't understand what's the deal about this game. I think it bombed hard and as such he was unable to get further investor funding. So the only thing he could do to have Heuristic Park subsist as more than a shell was make a couple of low cost improvements to it and re-release it. And now Heuristic Park is back to being a shell.

It's obvious he was never good with graphics. He just wanted to tell silly stories in strange worlds with strange and attaching characters, with intriguing dungeons and a deep gameplay system underlying it all. But modern graphics are destructive to all of this. They don't make you dream, they only make you realize how much they're all in the uncanny Valley.

I think its graphics weren't good enough to draw in the graphics crowd, and the combat turned off a certain section of his fans, while even people like me where turned off by how linear the game was and was disappointed that other than an odd npc here and there, there was no town hubs, shops, etc. I think people at the time who thought they liked rpgs found out it wasn't just like Gothic and ignored it.
 

Crispy

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Roqua, roaming around at night in this game is a little dangerous at first and it's easy to get lost.

Any way to advance the game to morning?
 

Strange Fellow

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
How does the class system in this game work, exactly? The manual says that Elite Roles can only be acquired by advancing in a guild, but it doesn't say which Elite Roles are associated with which guild. Or can any character learn any Elite Role from any guild, provided he has the required stats?

This character creation process is absolutely agonizing. I love it.

Edit:
xfc5d5.jpg

OK?
 
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V_K

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The manual says that Elite Roles can only be acquired by advancing in a guild, but it doesn't say which Elite Roles are associated with which guild.
It does. See pages 18-20.
We really need the RTFM button.
I did, and it absolutely doesn't.
Page 18:
The Armory & Warriors Guild [...] caters to the needs of fighters including Warriors, Paladins, Rangers, Barbarians, Samurai, and Ninjas.
The Magic Shoppe & Wizards Guild [...] caters to the needs of spellcasters including Wizards, Warlocks, and Bards.
Page 19:
The Pawn Shop & Rogues Guild [...] caters to the needs of all rogues including Rogues, Barbarians, Bards, and Rangers.
And so on.
 

Strange Fellow

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The manual says that Elite Roles can only be acquired by advancing in a guild, but it doesn't say which Elite Roles are associated with which guild.
It does. See pages 18-20.
We really need the RTFM button.
I did, and it absolutely doesn't.
Page 18:
The Armory & Warriors Guild [...] caters to the needs of fighters including Warriors, Paladins, Rangers, Barbarians, Samurai, and Ninjas.
The Magic Shoppe & Wizards Guild [...] caters to the needs of spellcasters including Wizards, Warlocks, and Bards.
Page 19:
The Pawn Shop & Rogues Guild [...] caters to the needs of all rogues including Rogues, Barbarians, Bards, and Rangers.
And so on.
I'm using this one, which is the only version I can find online (I'm not using the GOG version). Yours must be different.
 

Roqua

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Roqua, roaming around at night in this game is a little dangerous at first and it's easy to get lost.

Any way to advance the game to morning?

I don't know. I just cast torchlight. I spend the early parts just grinding to get gold to get in guilds and get guild quests and it seems to spawn more enemies at night.

I did, and it absolutely doesn't.

You eventually join them all for all characters. A trick is to get an advancement quest for a class that belongs to two guilds (like accept paladin for fighter even if you don't want paladin) and then join the other guild and drop the class advancement quest.

I know the bushido guild has a couple of the elite classes I think, but by the time you are ready you will be in all the guilds and have a solid grasp anyways.

I thought joining a guild automatically gave you a trait but I joined all the guilds and have no traits. Anyone remember how you get the fighter's oath and magicians oath traits?

Edit - not all guilds are in the first town. Just mage, fighter, and cleric. Rogue and bushido are in other towns.
 

V_K

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The manual says that Elite Roles can only be acquired by advancing in a guild, but it doesn't say which Elite Roles are associated with which guild.
It does. See pages 18-20.
We really need the RTFM button.
I did, and it absolutely doesn't.
Page 18:
The Armory & Warriors Guild [...] caters to the needs of fighters including Warriors, Paladins, Rangers, Barbarians, Samurai, and Ninjas.
The Magic Shoppe & Wizards Guild [...] caters to the needs of spellcasters including Wizards, Warlocks, and Bards.
Page 19:
The Pawn Shop & Rogues Guild [...] caters to the needs of all rogues including Rogues, Barbarians, Bards, and Rangers.
And so on.
I'm using this one, which is the only version I can find online (I'm not using the GOG version). Yours must be different.
Yep, I'm using the mocagh one. But yours has this information too, only on pages 12-14.
BtW, the game originally came with an html version of the manual anyway. Any download that's using disc images should have it too.
 

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