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World of Whorecraft: Battle for Asseroth
- Thread starter Zed
- Start date
Let's not diminish the great personal sacrifice from others who played their part as well...
Euronymous
Augur
I stopped playing World of Warcraft at Cataclysm, according to some fans it was even declining at Wrath of the Lich King.
Revenant
Guest
Careful with idea generation there, Blizzard employees might be reading this forum
J1M
Arcane
- Joined
- May 14, 2008
- Messages
- 14,741
It was an everquest joke. My understanding is that this idea has already been done.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 2,846
Metro
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2009
- Messages
- 27,792
I remember in vanilla WoW when casters were complaining that physical DPS classes scaled with attack power and mages/warlocks/etc had no similar stat (this was before +spell power). Fangtooth's argument was that while +attack power could increase a warrior/rogue/hunter's DPS a mage or warlock would benefit from +int because the more mana he had the more spells he could cast... so he could do more damage. Shit you not.
That reminded me good'ol Molten Core days where I only cast frost bolt over and over and magic missles when clearcasting procs.
Also supplying whole damned raid with only 2 mages...bleh!
Also supplying whole damned raid with only 2 mages...bleh!
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 2,846
Since the WoW devs have spoken that they'd once again amp up dungeon difficulty? (Lulz them and their lies) I wrote a topic regarding it in their forums, providing the insight only a noble person such I can. Since this is the discussion regarding what's next for WoW, why not provide my highly monocled opinion here as well? :O
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9052187924#1
Dungeon difficulty is something that is often brought up, both in threads and in form of threads such as this. More often than not the views are quite simplistic too, such as the demands for more CC.
Those demands often fail to dig deep into the reasons of why CC was useful in the past and why it's not anymore, with prevalent opinion being "Increase the damage so you must CC! Add more HP so you must CC!" sort of stuff which is inherently wrong and only additivies to the difficulty if paired with real reasons for crowd control that existed.
Far too many things have changed mechanically to make CC itself interesting enough to spice up dungeon runs as large majority of reasons for it has vanished, few of them which I list later.
To understand what made dungeons difficult was not the damage necessarily, nor the HP of the mobs but the various mechanics they laid down which do not happen anymore, mostly replaced with clearly marked and EASILY avoided "AVOID THIS STUFF IN THIS HUGE RING OF WARNING" or "INTERRUPT BLOODY NOW!!!" sort of stuff.
To make dungeons difficult again or atleast mildly challenging, on any sort of level few key things needs to revert and be made.
To name few, crowd-control itself needs to aggro again so it becomes a reactionary, planned thing, be it as a puller or post-pull mechanic you apply to encounter, not something you can passively hold up almoust indefinitely and just wait about for pull to happen.
Threat needs to make return so people are more careful with how they play and approach the nuke in the first place. This very much includes healing threat. It'd add extra emphasis on usage of especially short term CC on fly if for example a long term CC target is freed but nothing is done to it.
Groups of mobs need to have back meaningful abilities that take direct control away from player. This means fears, gouges, sheeps, silences, mind controls and all sort of other stuff. This encourages creative play under unforeseen circumstances and promotes skill. A great example of this was the disarming mobs in BRD prison section. They disarm tank = practically no threat generation to any of them and those packs could be 4-6 mobs large. Demanded participiation from all group members in some form to handle them.
Mob group placement need to be more aggressive, not pre-chewn and conveniently placed. Packs that are closer together, and have patrols walking between them promote observation and more careful approaches to the pull itself. Stealthed mobs placed on surprising places can add a lot for good design.
These are few things that would immediatly make dungeons far more interesting to run again and now we're only talking about things that already have existed in some form within the past. Combine them with some of the new mechanics and we'd be facing dungeons of both surprising challenge which require some sensible thought put into them overall. It'd also promote a more hybrid gameplay from 5 mans, something that has practically not existed since vanilla and early TBC.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/9052187924#1
Dungeon difficulty is something that is often brought up, both in threads and in form of threads such as this. More often than not the views are quite simplistic too, such as the demands for more CC.
Those demands often fail to dig deep into the reasons of why CC was useful in the past and why it's not anymore, with prevalent opinion being "Increase the damage so you must CC! Add more HP so you must CC!" sort of stuff which is inherently wrong and only additivies to the difficulty if paired with real reasons for crowd control that existed.
Far too many things have changed mechanically to make CC itself interesting enough to spice up dungeon runs as large majority of reasons for it has vanished, few of them which I list later.
To understand what made dungeons difficult was not the damage necessarily, nor the HP of the mobs but the various mechanics they laid down which do not happen anymore, mostly replaced with clearly marked and EASILY avoided "AVOID THIS STUFF IN THIS HUGE RING OF WARNING" or "INTERRUPT BLOODY NOW!!!" sort of stuff.
To make dungeons difficult again or atleast mildly challenging, on any sort of level few key things needs to revert and be made.
To name few, crowd-control itself needs to aggro again so it becomes a reactionary, planned thing, be it as a puller or post-pull mechanic you apply to encounter, not something you can passively hold up almoust indefinitely and just wait about for pull to happen.
Threat needs to make return so people are more careful with how they play and approach the nuke in the first place. This very much includes healing threat. It'd add extra emphasis on usage of especially short term CC on fly if for example a long term CC target is freed but nothing is done to it.
Groups of mobs need to have back meaningful abilities that take direct control away from player. This means fears, gouges, sheeps, silences, mind controls and all sort of other stuff. This encourages creative play under unforeseen circumstances and promotes skill. A great example of this was the disarming mobs in BRD prison section. They disarm tank = practically no threat generation to any of them and those packs could be 4-6 mobs large. Demanded participiation from all group members in some form to handle them.
Mob group placement need to be more aggressive, not pre-chewn and conveniently placed. Packs that are closer together, and have patrols walking between them promote observation and more careful approaches to the pull itself. Stealthed mobs placed on surprising places can add a lot for good design.
These are few things that would immediatly make dungeons far more interesting to run again and now we're only talking about things that already have existed in some form within the past. Combine them with some of the new mechanics and we'd be facing dungeons of both surprising challenge which require some sensible thought put into them overall. It'd also promote a more hybrid gameplay from 5 mans, something that has practically not existed since vanilla and early TBC.
Delterius
Arcane
Wilian, when were those things removed from encounter/dungeon design? I can't possibly have quit WoW so long ago.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 2,846
Threat was practically removed in WotLK patch when every tank got good AoE (Shortly got reintroduced in Cata yet quickly nerfed again), groups of mob were made to suit player interest in WotLK as well, they were so far apart you could not make misspull even if intended, unless they were 1 person patrols that bore no consequence due to the otherwise ease of the dungeon. Groups of mobs didn't have any meaningful abilities ever since WotLK either, except for 4 bersker vrykuls in Utgarde Pinnacle that could fear and two AoE monsters in Halls of Lightning. Those was the only time a mob had the capability to fuck you over with their abilities. Every class got super strong AoE in WotLK as well, promoting further the "AoE everything down without care" mentality.
...so basically on introduction of WotLK, to answer the question shortly.
...so basically on introduction of WotLK, to answer the question shortly.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Messages
- 17,068
orc music is better, man.
orcs 4 lyfe
orcs 4 lyfe
Few mounts and never did old raids. Fag.
Send me a ressurection scroll plox, my character doesn't display anymore in the armory, I'll just log in to reactivate him.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 2,846
Why don't you join me on my endeavour on the only proper vanilla WoW server http://www.therebirth.net/PlayNow eh? Tried to look you up for Ress scroll but says such character doesn't exist.
Vanilla WoW is overrated as fuck. No fucking way I'm ever spending like a week of my life in The Barrens again, killing hundreds of hoofless animals.
I'm on the US servers.... must be that.
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2011
- Messages
- 2,846
Only if you join the filthy Horde that are not good for anything other than a quick HK to be served on plate. If you join the noble, monocled Alliance there is no Barrens grind and quests are plentiful and varied to a point you can pick and choose your favourite!
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2013
- Messages
- 798
Barrens chat, Chuck Norris jokes, no Death Knights or Pandas ? Grinding away another 1000 hours of my life when the interest and intrigue has long ago withered away? Exchanging chat insults with legions of pre-pubescent moronic rogues et al. for what reason? I've lost enough already to that whore.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2002
- Messages
- 17,068
I played my warrior in vanilla and profile wont show it because of inactivity. I have many early MC/BWL/AQ40/Onyxia/NX40/Event Dragons kills.
I started playing my shaman in TBC, and only raiding when there's interesting raid content
When I do raid, I raid srs business.
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