WR - General Chit-Chatter/Tidbits

[Excidium]

I think it's a p. neat idea, if money is hard to come by. Otherwise nobody will bother...

 

[Surf Solar]

There's no money, you can only barter, no currency etc. Besides, as described it could also work for crafting healing items (food),craft some armor enhancments to survive in colder enviroments (like in the pictures above) and on the "highest" perk level of the profession you can loot teeth or claws from the animals to make your weapons better and so on. Thought about some similar mechanic (those "professions") for the doctor skill too, so that you can craft some mixtures out of animals poison to make your healing more effective or buff you a bit better.

 

[sgc_meltdown]

well bro I think survivalist tactic like this should have its own needed investment in skills etc and have its own kind of uncertainties instead of being a parallel for going to the hunting cave and mining for hunting meat

I am just a mere consumer so I leave the details to you the professionals

 

[Surf Solar]

So you think it should be detached from Outdoorsman? (feeling strangely like a FO3 speech check... :D )

 

[sgc_meltdown]

now that you bring that up bro convince me why I shouldn't go gambling pro for my character's welfare instead of popping molerats

is there a way to implement outdoor situations that a gambler with all his money and access to goods cannot weather as well as les stroud in What Remains

IS YOUR SKILL BALANCING A HOUSE OF LIES

 

[Surf Solar]

First of all, there is no gambling skill in What Remains. In the grim world of post apocalyptic 23.10.77 people are too depressed to play with cards. As said, there is no currency, no caps/gold coins/used condoms to use as a currency. Second, yes there could be a merchant with the barter skill, but relying on that skill alone will bring you nowhere. Infact, with that hypothetical system I described above it could be very viable to invest into outdoorsman and a bit into barter so you can get the best prices for your newest Paris Fashion Molerat-hide one o one. Welfare is p. much impossible for the first two parts of the game.

Which brings me to the next question, do you think there should be a level cap? If yes, why? If no, do you think that the player being able to grind will break the game?

 

[sgc_meltdown]

just for balancing purposes there should be a level cap so you don't become cleve

shit even oblivion has a level cap

I wouldn't really discount being able to learn from books and jack the trades out of your shit but perhaps the amount of 'book skill points' should be limited by your intelligence and maybe even have prerequisites, I dunno

i.e. like high level science manuals that take you past 70% needing a minimum of 7 int

might edge into this coat gives you +5 speech territory in gameyness

 

[Luzur]

dont die on us now, or we will find you and hurt you.

also, Codexers should make cameo apperances.

 

[Crooked Bee]

Yes yes there must be a bee in there somewhere, a crooked one, flying vertically

Great job on this, by the way

 

[GarfunkeL]

Yes for level cap or then exponentially making XP requirements eventually so high that only some insane assburger will grind enough to get there.

As to book learning, I agree with meltdown that they should come in a variety, like in VTM:B where books could require certain amount of skillpoints before they could be understood and only then bestowed their gift to you. So "introduction to mechanical systems" might require INT4 and zero skill, giving you +10% to repair. Whereas "Advanced Nuclear Fusion Engineering" would require INT8 and existing skill of 80% to utilize.

Also, I checked this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOBX3eyhB60
and was curious where you found the image? Is there a better resolution version floating around somewhere?

Plus, I can help you with those encounter tables if you still need help. PM me details when you can.

 

[Surf Solar]

dont die on us now, or we will find you and hurt you.

I would rather eat Cleves neanderthal feces than to stop working on the game.

also, Codexers should make cameo apperances.

At this point with so much feedback for me on the codex here it would be a crime not to do it. :D

Yes yes there must be a bee in there somewhere, a crooked one, flying vertically

Done.

(and thanks btw )

Yes for level cap or then exponentially making XP requirements eventually so high that only some insane assburger will grind enough to get there.

I think that's a good idea. Keeping the option to do that, but having insane requirements for later levels. That's good! Still too early to really set it in stone, for example the quest rewards are all set to a default value at the moment so I can adjust them later on, there are lots of different "mobs" with the same appearance but different stats, strategies and xp values and so on and so on. Way to go!

As to book learning, I agree with meltdown that they should come in a variety, like in VTM:B where books could require certain amount of skillpoints before they could be understood and only then bestowed their gift to you. So "introduction to mechanical systems" might require INT4 and zero skill, giving you +10% to repair. Whereas "Advanced Nuclear Fusion Engineering" would require INT8 and existing skill of 80% to utilize.

Good idea. I think I will couple some of the crafting schemes to it and make different variants (like you said) of those learning books.

Also, I checked this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOBX3eyhB60
and was curious where you found the image? Is there a better resolution version floating around somewhere?

It was drawn by the user "supfinal" on the FOnline forum for me, unfortunately I don't have the source picture anymore. I could only give you this slightly bigger image, but it still has the caption on it:

Plus, I can help you with those encounter tables if you still need help. PM me details when you can.

Will do that, thank you![/code]

 

[shihonage]

She totally wants his hard, big minigun.

 

[SCO]

How about not giving xp for combat, only quests?


Worked for VTM:B. And it would troll grinders and combatfags no end in a fallout-like.

 

[Surf Solar]

I like how he seems to look like some wasteland version of Arnie. I wish the guy drawing this for me was still active, it is very rare that someone wants to help you with awesome art for free....

Garfunkel, incase you want to use it as desktop background or such, I could do some frames and some tricks around it to make the picture larger.

How about not giving xp for combat, only quests?


Worked for VTM:B. And it would troll grinders and combatfags no end in a fallout-like.

An interesting thought.. Yes, it would troll those people playing such builds p. hard, heh. What about the occasional dumb character who lacks the skills to solve quests through dialogs? (s)he would end with no xp at all then.. If it is done right and defeating big bad monster in cave ABC gives some items as reward as opposed to xp, it COULD work.

 

[Stasgard]

Pretty sure he means at quest completion rather then XP for individuals kills, Solar. Clearing the Radscoprion Cave in Fallout giving the XP rather then the radscorpions individually giving XP. ( If I recall Fallout does this too already, it would just be a matter of setting the XP value of every enemy as 0 )

Edit: Herp Derp forget to say shit about the game. Basically throw every positive comment together and it sums up my opinion.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

How about not giving XP for quests, just for specific uses of skills in them? And actually rewarding with skill points for a specific skill group?

 

[SCO]

Controlling the exp given would also allow you to plan the character progression very exactly.

In bloodlines for instance, it was possible to be absurdly powerful if you used the books at later points (just before they got ineffective). But then again, bloodlines had the advantage of not using a percent system for that.

Regardless, a difficulty level setting for the campaign could also apply a multiplier to the exp given. So a hard campaign would end on level 6 and a easy one on level 12.

^
This idea would probably be unpopular though.

Regardless, i feel that in AI, it should always strive to fuck the player the best it can.
It will undoubtedly be retarded anyway.

 

[Surf Solar]

Just implemented a fuckload of new holodiscs you can bring to the local (if it is not burned down :> ) bar to listen to. Yes, this may sound like some FO3 pipboy idiocy to you, but in the bars of Wisconsin, Illinois and Michigan, old music is serious business. Only if you activate the energy, got some basic food cycle rolling etc (it is basically inspired by the "loyality" meter from JA2) you will be able to actually gamble in the bars.

Gambling now doesn't determine the actual chance to win in the game, but the more gambling skill you have it unlocks unique dialog options, you can set higher stakes, you can play "better" games (dont worry, no minigames) through dialogs etc.

This totally rocks, I am doing it right now, listening to the music and having fun. :D


EDIT: Lol, each time I am feeling like posting here, new replies pop up.

How about not giving XP for quests, just for specific uses of skills in them? And actually rewarding with skill points for a specific skill group?

First thing can be done, but the system can't be divided into "earn xp for Small Guns while doing this, earn xp for doing skill Doctor for doing that"

Controlling the exp given would also allow you to plan the character progression very exactly.

In bloodlines for instance, it was possible to be absurdly powerful if you used the books at later points (just before they got ineffective). But then again, bloodlines had the advantage of not using a percent system for that.

Regardless, a difficulty level setting for the campaign could also apply a multiplier to the exp given. So a hard campaign would end on level 6 and a easy one on level 12.

^
This idea would probably be unpopular though.

Regardless, i feel that in AI, it should always strive to fuck the player the best it can.
It will undoubtedly be retarded anyway.

I think the idea of a difficulty system would be the best. On "whimp" level it would be the same as in the original Fallouts. From there on it gets harder and harder till it reaches the monocle mode Agreed with everything you said, but I really have to see if I can pull that off with my limited ressources. No xp for killing things seems EXTREMELY good to me atleast.. Though, I am a bit worried as it needs a fuckload of quests to do. Thats not the problem, I've got lots of stuff to do already. But it is more "do this, then you can do that" - lots of stuff is branched. If you play WR once with character XY, there will be an entirely different playthrough if you play it the next time if you chose other dialogs etc. This can get a problem...

 

[Jaesun]

How about not giving xp for combat, only quests?

I love this. However, Fallout has always been a combat heavy game. BUT, if combat xp was lowered, and major xp rewarded for finishing quests, AND rewarding more/less xp on how you solve it (like finding alternate ways) would be good.

 

[SCO]

I liked Awor Szurkrarz idea a lot. If it is unfeasible due to ruleset limitations, maybe changing the ruleset would be in order

xp for small guns could be simulated as temporary tags on each level up.

"You used these 3 skills the most, exp put into them will count double".
Tag would allow you to add "4 skills the most".

There are probably horrible mini-max bugs with this idea.

 

[Surf Solar]

The only issue is, as said earlier, that there are builds which cannot solve issues through the dialog way (playing nice), they basically HAVE to resort on violence. How to distribute XP to them?



Fake-edit: Ahahahah :D I just had the best shootout in my game ever. I tweaked some of the usual townsfolk AI files, came back to set a variable on the "is_jukebox_repaired" (to test new songs) and started the quests just like I did all the times before. But now, I gambled (like described above) and due to some oversight, I forgot to set one npc to have the same team_id as the other npcs in the town. What happened? I started a song, a script kicked in that one npc is pissed off of it ( this song was it ! http://www.zshare.net/audio/9521597370859c73/ ) - they first sent in the dogs, then the patrons kicked the shit out of me. I retreated out of the bar, hided in an abandonend train, while the dogs were accidently attacked by their friends. They eventually attacked each other and I could escape, now having -1000 reputation in the town. :D This was an awesome shootout, almost felt like some Pulp Fiction one. ;P I feel proud of myself that I already thought of "hiding" crucial npc in remote/smart corners so they don't engage in such battles. Now I need to either remedy my reputation there, or join one of the 2 other factions to destroy the faction which is now pissed at me.

EDIT EDIT: Do you think it is a smart idea to ask DU for a subforum here? The forum I made is ok, but it tears apart the actual base of people who are interested in the game...

 

[SCO]

Combat wouldn't give xp, but "getting rid of the guard" would.

Basically, they should give the exact same reward by using the same termination condition.

Quest get by guards would have a
"done yet" boolean
and would only give xp once you actually enter the building (once).
If you killed them, or talked to them, it doesn't really matter.

Surviving random encounters would not give anything (or would give something when you get out at the borders if you're feeling nice - notice that combat fags still get items so they still have advantage).

Another example, puzzle rat diplomacy:
You need to force unarmed people to do something they don't want to do. You can bribe, you can defraud, you can shoot the knee of the guy's friend (and that would make them surrender and do the stuffie). It wouldn't be "convincing the guy" that would give the xp, since that had 3 paths, but that flag of the end of the quest got turned, and that gives the same xp.

 

[Excidium]

I think it's a cool idea, sneaking dudes would benefit greatly.

About a subforum - Maybe, you could ask the dudes back in your forum to come post here.

 

[Surf Solar]

Combat wouldn't give xp, but "getting rid of the guard" would.

Basically, they should give the exact same reward by using the same termination condition.

Quest get by guards would have a
"done yet" boolean
and would only give xp once you actually enter the building (once).
If you killed them, or talked to them, it doesn't really matter.

Surviving random encounters would not give anything (or would give something when you get out at the borders if you're feeling nice - notice that combat fags still get items so they still have advantage).

Another example, puzzle rat diplomacy:
You need to force unarmed people to do something they don't want to do. You can bribe, you can defraud, you can shoot the knee of the guy's friend (and that would make them surrender and do the stuffie).

Extremely hard to balance, especially in such a combat heavy system, but I hear you. I am a bit drunk right now (hmmmm, Крым шампанское , fuck pre-halloween parties) but I will consider this tomorrow. It's good that you throw that idea in now, where the xp are still prone to change.

 

[GarfunkeL]

Yeah, was thinking of using the picture as a wallpaper.

XP only for finishing quest is a good way to eliminate grinding - as long as there are multiple ways to finish each quest (combat/sneaky/diplomacy) and the XP is the same for all three.