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WTF was Viconia Evil in BG3

Roguey

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Copy-pasted text and a possibly retconned background in BG1 doesn't magically vanish her BG2 writing and epilogues.

It wasn't retconned. She tells you the rape-farmer story when you ask her about what she was up to you after you parted ways. It wasn't a "tell me the story of what you were up to before we met."

She worked with Drizzt Do'Urden in non-romance epilogue. Take-a-fucking-hint.
So? She works with a good-aligned PC as long as your reputation doesn't get too high. The epilogue is written in a way that's noncommittal to whether she's good or bad.
 

Lagole Gon

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She felt extremely shoehorned in. Why include her at all if you're just going to make her a 0 depth bossfight with nothing to say.

Most of the references to the games and books felt pandering and kinda pointless and weird.

I lost count how many times they reference random nobody-gives-a-fuck drow from Menzoberranzan / RA novels.. completely hamfisted in some weird way that makes no sense.. (finding random notes from those NPC's in random places they would of never possibly been)

It really feels like the writer for this game played BG2 for an hour and read the first 30 pages of Homeland and called it a day.
Actually, at first I felt like they are doing everything right.
The book about the bhaalspawn events is very vague.
Jaheira is very evasive about the past events. And she's a decent character too.
It all seemed like the right low effort way to do it.

Oh, little did I know Larian is only lowering my defences to kick me in the nuts with a full force.
 

Yosharian

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Viccy is unquestionably evil and her redemption, such as it is, in ToB is not canon.

Them's the breaks kids, modern gaming industry doesn't give a shit what you did in your bg2 playthrough 20 years ago
 

Lagole Gon

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Copy-pasted text and a possibly retconned background in BG1 doesn't magically vanish her BG2 writing and epilogues.

It wasn't retconned. She tells you the rape-farmer story when you ask her about what she was up to you after you parted ways. It wasn't a "tell me the story of what you were up to before we met."

Okay. Fine. I concede the point about retcon.

But.

It's an event we know pretty much nothing about.
1. Do you think she would do it for the evil lulz?
2. Do you think it would fit her character writing in BG2?
 

Roguey

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It's an event we know pretty much nothing about.
1. Do you think she would do it for the evil lulz?
2. Do you think it would fit her character writing in BG2?
Not just for kicks, but there are a number of reasons why she'd kill a family.

And sure it fits.

Mazzy: Listen to me, drow. Though our leader has made the foolish choice of allowing you to join this party, you shall receive no welcome from me. Slayer of innocents! You taint the sun with your evil!
Viconia: Ha! You do not frighten me, tiny pretend-paladin. I've had taller footstools and am little concerned with whatever brawn your diminutive form could muster.
Mazzy: Cruel words will do you little good when your head is on a pike. Step across the line even once, and I will kill you.
Viconia: We shall see when Fate plays her hand who shall be the last one standing.

Viconia: Sarevok, may I share a whispered word with you?
Sarevok: Yes, drow? What is it you want?
Viconia: I miss the customs of my homeland, like the breaking in of new pleasure slaves. The largest and strongest were the hardest to break, but they were the most rewarding. Sarevok, I find your great size... intriguing.
Sarevok: Were you to break me, Viconia, you might find nothing but the chill emptiness of the grave within.
Viconia: That does not repulse me as you might imagine. We drow are ever eager to broaden our... experiences.
Sarevok: I orchestrated a war to slaughter thousands. I have felt the cold embrace of death. I have witnessed the horrors of the Abyss. But you, Viconia... you scare me.
Viconia: Cowards everywhere I turn! If you find your courage, Sarevok, seek me out.


Viconia: Sarevok, have you had the opportunity to consider my earlier offer? Untold pleasures await you if you would but submit to me.
Sarevok: I have considered it, Viconia. And I must reject you and your... temptations.
Viconia: A pity your manhood is so lacking. I am a cruel mistress, but my slaves always found their subjugation to be most satisfying to their own physical desires as well.
Sarevok: When Bhaal held sway over my soul, I reveled in the bloody carnage I wrought. But my will was not my own. As captivating as your dominance might be, Viconia, I will not surrender my being to the whims of another again... be they god or drow.
Viconia: Then you are of no further interest to me, rivvil... though I suspect your dreams will be filled with dark imaginings of the hedonistic pleasures you have denied yourself. But even your dreams will be but a pale shadow of my true decadence.
Sarevok: Of that, Viconia, I have no doubt.
 

Lagole Gon

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It's an event we know pretty much nothing about.
1. Do you think she would do it for the evil lulz?
2. Do you think it would fit her character writing in BG2?
Not just for kicks, but there are a number of reasons why she'd kill a family.

And sure it fits.

Mazzy: Listen to me, drow. Though our leader has made the foolish choice of allowing you to join this party, you shall receive no welcome from me. Slayer of innocents! You taint the sun with your evil!
Viconia: Ha! You do not frighten me, tiny pretend-paladin. I've had taller footstools and am little concerned with whatever brawn your diminutive form could muster.
Mazzy: Cruel words will do you little good when your head is on a pike. Step across the line even once, and I will kill you.
Viconia: We shall see when Fate plays her hand who shall be the last one standing.

Viconia: Sarevok, may I share a whispered word with you?
Sarevok: Yes, drow? What is it you want?
Viconia: I miss the customs of my homeland, like the breaking in of new pleasure slaves. The largest and strongest were the hardest to break, but they were the most rewarding. Sarevok, I find your great size... intriguing.
Sarevok: Were you to break me, Viconia, you might find nothing but the chill emptiness of the grave within.
Viconia: That does not repulse me as you might imagine. We drow are ever eager to broaden our... experiences.
Sarevok: I orchestrated a war to slaughter thousands. I have felt the cold embrace of death. I have witnessed the horrors of the Abyss. But you, Viconia... you scare me.
Viconia: Cowards everywhere I turn! If you find your courage, Sarevok, seek me out.


Viconia: Sarevok, have you had the opportunity to consider my earlier offer? Untold pleasures await you if you would but submit to me.
Sarevok: I have considered it, Viconia. And I must reject you and your... temptations.
Viconia: A pity your manhood is so lacking. I am a cruel mistress, but my slaves always found their subjugation to be most satisfying to their own physical desires as well.
Sarevok: When Bhaal held sway over my soul, I reveled in the bloody carnage I wrought. But my will was not my own. As captivating as your dominance might be, Viconia, I will not surrender my being to the whims of another again... be they god or drow.
Viconia: Then you are of no further interest to me, rivvil... though I suspect your dreams will be filled with dark imaginings of the hedonistic pleasures you have denied yourself. But even your dreams will be but a pale shadow of my true decadence.
Sarevok: Of that, Viconia, I have no doubt.

Is that some kind of argument or something?
I'm really not sure what did you try to achieve here, aside from maybe giving someone a slight boner.
 

Roguey

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It's an event we know pretty much nothing about.
1. Do you think she would do it for the evil lulz?
2. Do you think it would fit her character writing in BG2?
Not just for kicks, but there are a number of reasons why she'd kill a family.

And sure it fits.

Mazzy: Listen to me, drow. Though our leader has made the foolish choice of allowing you to join this party, you shall receive no welcome from me. Slayer of innocents! You taint the sun with your evil!
Viconia: Ha! You do not frighten me, tiny pretend-paladin. I've had taller footstools and am little concerned with whatever brawn your diminutive form could muster.
Mazzy: Cruel words will do you little good when your head is on a pike. Step across the line even once, and I will kill you.
Viconia: We shall see when Fate plays her hand who shall be the last one standing.

Viconia: Sarevok, may I share a whispered word with you?
Sarevok: Yes, drow? What is it you want?
Viconia: I miss the customs of my homeland, like the breaking in of new pleasure slaves. The largest and strongest were the hardest to break, but they were the most rewarding. Sarevok, I find your great size... intriguing.
Sarevok: Were you to break me, Viconia, you might find nothing but the chill emptiness of the grave within.
Viconia: That does not repulse me as you might imagine. We drow are ever eager to broaden our... experiences.
Sarevok: I orchestrated a war to slaughter thousands. I have felt the cold embrace of death. I have witnessed the horrors of the Abyss. But you, Viconia... you scare me.
Viconia: Cowards everywhere I turn! If you find your courage, Sarevok, seek me out.


Viconia: Sarevok, have you had the opportunity to consider my earlier offer? Untold pleasures await you if you would but submit to me.
Sarevok: I have considered it, Viconia. And I must reject you and your... temptations.
Viconia: A pity your manhood is so lacking. I am a cruel mistress, but my slaves always found their subjugation to be most satisfying to their own physical desires as well.
Sarevok: When Bhaal held sway over my soul, I reveled in the bloody carnage I wrought. But my will was not my own. As captivating as your dominance might be, Viconia, I will not surrender my being to the whims of another again... be they god or drow.
Viconia: Then you are of no further interest to me, rivvil... though I suspect your dreams will be filled with dark imaginings of the hedonistic pleasures you have denied yourself. But even your dreams will be but a pale shadow of my true decadence.
Sarevok: Of that, Viconia, I have no doubt.

Is that some kind of argument or something?
I'm really not sure what did you try to achieve here, aside from maybe giving someone a slight boner.
That's some pretty evil talk. Also she doesn't dispute Mazzy calling her a slayer of innocents.
 

Lagole Gon

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Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut Pathfinder: Wrath
It's an event we know pretty much nothing about.
1. Do you think she would do it for the evil lulz?
2. Do you think it would fit her character writing in BG2?
Not just for kicks, but there are a number of reasons why she'd kill a family.

And sure it fits.

Mazzy: Listen to me, drow. Though our leader has made the foolish choice of allowing you to join this party, you shall receive no welcome from me. Slayer of innocents! You taint the sun with your evil!
Viconia: Ha! You do not frighten me, tiny pretend-paladin. I've had taller footstools and am little concerned with whatever brawn your diminutive form could muster.
Mazzy: Cruel words will do you little good when your head is on a pike. Step across the line even once, and I will kill you.
Viconia: We shall see when Fate plays her hand who shall be the last one standing.

Viconia: Sarevok, may I share a whispered word with you?
Sarevok: Yes, drow? What is it you want?
Viconia: I miss the customs of my homeland, like the breaking in of new pleasure slaves. The largest and strongest were the hardest to break, but they were the most rewarding. Sarevok, I find your great size... intriguing.
Sarevok: Were you to break me, Viconia, you might find nothing but the chill emptiness of the grave within.
Viconia: That does not repulse me as you might imagine. We drow are ever eager to broaden our... experiences.
Sarevok: I orchestrated a war to slaughter thousands. I have felt the cold embrace of death. I have witnessed the horrors of the Abyss. But you, Viconia... you scare me.
Viconia: Cowards everywhere I turn! If you find your courage, Sarevok, seek me out.


Viconia: Sarevok, have you had the opportunity to consider my earlier offer? Untold pleasures await you if you would but submit to me.
Sarevok: I have considered it, Viconia. And I must reject you and your... temptations.
Viconia: A pity your manhood is so lacking. I am a cruel mistress, but my slaves always found their subjugation to be most satisfying to their own physical desires as well.
Sarevok: When Bhaal held sway over my soul, I reveled in the bloody carnage I wrought. But my will was not my own. As captivating as your dominance might be, Viconia, I will not surrender my being to the whims of another again... be they god or drow.
Viconia: Then you are of no further interest to me, rivvil... though I suspect your dreams will be filled with dark imaginings of the hedonistic pleasures you have denied yourself. But even your dreams will be but a pale shadow of my true decadence.
Sarevok: Of that, Viconia, I have no doubt.

Is that some kind of argument or something?
I'm really not sure what did you try to achieve here, aside from maybe giving someone a slight boner.
That's some pretty evil talk. Also she doesn't dispute Mazzy calling her a slayer of innocents.
I can't believe Viconia didn't try to explain herself when nagged by a pseudo-paladin midget.
 

Nortar

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Pathfinder: Wrath
And i think i've made it abundantly clear that I like Dark Elf bootay.


You always could talk down & dirty to me (and get away with it; )

The proper way of dealing with the evil drow witches.

gt9QsSl.jpg
 

InD_ImaginE

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The real answer is just because Larian wants to shit on the character. That's it. No reason of bringing her back just for her "role" in BG3.

Larian writers probably takes pride on it as well
 

BruceVC

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And i think i've made it abundantly clear that I like Dark Elf bootay.


You always could talk down & dirty to me (and get away with it; )
Viconia was my favorite and preferred Romance in the BG series, I loved her dialogues options with certain members. I remember I had Sarevok in my party in BG2 and it was hilarious how they interacted

Viconia wanted to make him a sex slave and he was....nervous. Imagine saying no to that :-D
 

S.H.O.D.A.N.

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No one remembers Viconia for being a bog standard evil drow. What made her memorable was a decently executed moral shift character arc and being quite possibly the only case of a romantic subplot that enriched the narrative, instead of being just the usual cheap titillation for teenage boys.

Remove that, and there's no reason to bring her back, other than as extremely lazy nostalgia bait.
 

Roguey

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Here the relevant sections of the TSR Code
I see zero evidence that this is relevant
She's wanted by the police and TSR made it clear that in their stories, the police are always good and when one is bad, he must be punished.

In BG2, if you have her and Keldon in your party, he'll eventually flip out and kill her. Keldorn is lawful good. He suffers no alignment shift and does not fall when he kills her. The universe itself accepts Viconia as evil and worthy of killing.
 

PapaPetro

Guest
The real answer is just because Larian wants to shit on the character. That's it. No reason of bringing her back just for her "role" in BG3.

Larian writers probably takes pride on it as well
Forgive them.
They're not that smart.
 

PapaPetro

Guest
It's dumber that she's ugly. Viconia was a smokeshow and elves don't age.
It's really racist of you to assume the gender of a Body Type 2. That's the appeal of ESG3, anything can be hiding in the trousers.
Am I racist for being into drow chicks?
Serious question.

And for the record, the drow priestess orgy scene in Homeland left an impression on 11-year-old me.
Drizzt is truly a saint for resisting that... jeez
sweatonmybrow.png
 

PapaPetro

Guest
The real answer is just because Larian wants to shit on the character. That's it. No reason of bringing her back just for her "role" in BG3.

Larian writers probably takes pride on it as well
Forgive them.
They're not that smart.

You assume stupidity, I assume outright malice.
Correct. That's actually evil.
Hanlon's Razor is smart person's trap for dumb people.
This is because a smart person can always pretend to be ignorant.
Thus Evil can be justified through stupidity.
I think Hanlon's Razor is retarded.
It's an evil moral heuristic.

Stupidity is evil to me.
It literally doesn't make sense.

But I forgive them since they are not me.
(and I get off on telling why/where they are wrong)
5jtIpp0.gif


Because I saw you assholes gaslighting me like that.
I learn from the best/worst...
 
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PapaPetro

Guest
[C'mon honey, let's go slay some more demons in hell...]

Seems like they are having a good time

A bard was playing this ethereally the whole time in the background.
 
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She's wanted by the police and TSR made it clear that in their stories, the police are always good and when one is bad, he must be punished.

OK, so lets pretend that this is true.

Evil shall never be portrayed in an attractive light and shall be used
only as a foe to illustrate a moral issue.
This means Viconia and every other "evil" companion in BG1 must actually be neutral or good, because according to you Evil characters can only be foes and not party members.

Clearly the TSR code means jack shit.
 

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