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X4: Foundations - Mount and Blade with space-ships. Now with significant Beta update

lefthandblack

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Domestic Terrorist HQ
So i had to fix this: Space Diversity mod for 1.30 : https://www12.zippyshare.com/v/sF3fnvV0/file.html

The 4chan one, had some bugs in it, and it freezed the information panel, since Egosoft decided to rename props between versions, yeah....

It removes the horrible inclusive african blacks from the game. I wouldn't mind them if they were well made, and not 70% of the NPCs in Argon. If i were black i would be insulted, they all look like thugz. Fucking German Developers man.

In the future, maybe i will add more diversity to the spawns, now its not that much, but maybe they will add more props with time.

Have you looked at the other NPC mod on the Nexus? I was thinking about trying to merge that one with the diversity one but I'm waiting for a more functional game before I put too much effort in, at this point I wouldn't be able to tell what was a bug caused by my modding and what was an Egosoft bug.
 

Razor

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Sep 22, 2014
Messages
942
So gave it a shot today. First off spent at least an hour tinkering with the controls. Second off, the flight model and ship physics feel very off: coming from travel mode (something like 2000 m/s tops?), hitting kill engines and coming to a complete stop in a mere few seconds... should not the G-forces result in something like this?



Ah fuck, who cares. Spoiled by ED-s better flight model. Anyway, looking forward to actually getting some factories up and running. Anybody got any impressions of the industrial gameplay to share?
 

Thane Solus

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X-COM Base
So i had to fix this: Space Diversity mod for 1.30 : https://www12.zippyshare.com/v/sF3fnvV0/file.html

The 4chan one, had some bugs in it, and it freezed the information panel, since Egosoft decided to rename props between versions, yeah....

It removes the horrible inclusive african blacks from the game. I wouldn't mind them if they were well made, and not 70% of the NPCs in Argon. If i were black i would be insulted, they all look like thugz. Fucking German Developers man.

In the future, maybe i will add more diversity to the spawns, now its not that much, but maybe they will add more props with time.

Have you looked at the other NPC mod on the Nexus? I was thinking about trying to merge that one with the diversity one but I'm waiting for a more functional game before I put too much effort in, at this point I wouldn't be able to tell what was a bug caused by my modding and what was an Egosoft bug.

They already work together, i ve been using since day 1. As for making a collections of mods, merging, i would wait at least a month.

Edit: with 1.30 it has some bugs, the Various NPC one, it doesnt properly populate some stations, it should be fixed in a few days by the author, i cant be bothered to do it.
 
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cw8

Cipher
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Oct 7, 2014
Messages
677
I don't know but I'm not convinced about the ship design. Aprox. 80% of the ships I can't tell where is the bow and where is stern...
Yeah. But even those that still look recognizable show weird changes. The Paranid Odysseus still resembles the one from X3, except it now looks like a simplified plastic toy version of the original.

And the Teladi capital ships now look like Eve Online's Avatar Titan.

They sorta fixed the input lag changing from gamepad to mouse controls. It's still there but more negligible now.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/12/10/x4-foundations-review/

Wot I Think - X4: Foundations


70



X4: Foundations is how I imagine Brian Cox imagines space. It’s big and impressive, because Brian Cox can grasp those two concepts just fine. But any actual fine detail is lost in sheer gawking wonder at just how big and amazing everything is. From minute one, the game offered me a lot of choices, but turned out as evasive as a buttered rat when it came time to convince me that any of those choices were worth caring about.

If you’re already a fan of the X series’ schtick, fear not: It runs fine. Occasionally, the mouse wheel would stop accelerating my ship like it was supposed to, and once, I got stuck on the outside of an elevator. Besides that, it was smooth spacing. Also, the Egosoft folks have already patched the game three times in the last week, so that can only be a good thing. Have at it, champ, space awaits you.

As for the rest of you? Let me regale you with some exciting tales of space adventure. Minus the excitement. And the adventuring. Also, possibly stretching the concept of a ‘tale’ beyond breaking point, too. I am space-moist with space-ticipation.



Before you start, X4: Foundations lets you choose an origin story – either a fighter, explorer, or ‘young gun’. This mainly affects what ship you start with, but I appreciate the game facilitating different player mindsets. I went with ‘young gun’, because it came with the tantalising promise of tutorials.

I’m going to avoid eulogising said tutorials, because they were neither fun nor good, but after about three hours of skipping between the game and Youtube, I’d managed to cobble together some semblance of a clue. Keep in mind that X4 is supposed to be one of the more accessible games in the series. I took off from the starting station and flew around for a bit, waiting for some local toughs to get surly so I could give ‘em a bit of the old laser cannon.



X4 has, I must admit, a very active radiant-AI style ecosystem of ships and factions and trade and crime. You can, for example, get scanned by space police and forced to jettison any illegal goods you’re carrying. This can also happen to AI ships, and sometimes a criminal will try to fly off, meaning that they’ll turn red on your radar. If you help police shoot them down, they’ll give you a shiny monetary reward. Obviously, helping cops is bad, but one joy of games is that you can play out any fantasy you like, including a dirty cop helper.

Dogfights in X4 are less fun than in Wing Commander 3: Heart of the Tiger, which remains my main metric for how good space games are. The small amount of fun they do provide comes down to the scale of the theatre, rather than the talent of the actors. Knowing there’s this vast, uninhabitable space stretching off in every direction lends an awesome, poetic weight to what would otherwise be fairly rote shoot-outs.



Anyway, I killed one stray criminal in a shit ship and decided I was now the king of space, which no-one contested. Collecting some salvage from the wreck, I thought I’d dock and try out the trading systems.

Docking a ship in X4 is extremely cumbersome, as you line up your nose with various axes, but oddly satisfying as a result. It’s also tied to some of the worst type of upgrades a game can have – docking computer upgrades that make an action that shouldn’t have been tedious in the first place slightly less tedious, leading me to believe it was deliberately designed with tedium in mind just to give you something to upgrade. Boo.



After leaving my ship, I gaze upwards at space to see a battle between the station’s security force and some cool, sexy criminals. This fight, I believe, arose completely organically from the AI. Again, X4 does scale very well. The platform I’m on is huge. The space above it, by virtue of being space itself, is also huge. I can see the tiny ships fighting high above me, see the tiny lasers, and hear the crackling static comms as they insult each other. I think it’s the same voice actor, though, so it feels like one dude shouting at himself in the mirror through a megaphone, which kills the vibe a bit.

Also on the platform is a three-eyed lizard guy. I want to ask him about his three eyes, but can only either hire him, or ask him for directions. If I had hired him, I could have also bought him a ship, promoted him to captain, and sent him off on trading missions. I could, theoretically, eventually build up entire fleets of ships like this, making obscene amounts of space cash.



The problem being, X4 had skipped a step here – getting me to care about its universe. If the three-eyed lizard guy had maybe had a cool story about his eyes, that would have been a start. But this issue is microcosmic to X4 micro cosmos as a whole – it seems far more interested in the math behind its simulation than the soul of the thing. It’s all spreadsheets, radar blips and possibility without purpose. The main promise seems to be that of becoming the biggest fish in an ankle-deep ocean.

And it’s impressive math, to be sure. I remember my first time playing Oblivion, watching in wide-eyed excitement as a quest-giver moved across the map in real time. X4 does the same, but for entire fleets of fully-customisable, player-controlled ships, which can be ordered to zip back and forth on the most profitable trade routes, buying space weed (I didn’t make this up) in one arm of the galaxy then selling it off in another.



You can individually tailor each of these ships to your needs. You can buy police scanners for your drug ships, or big guns for your shooty ships. You can upload a picture of your hamster and emboss it on the side of your fleet. You can build a ship big enough to put other ships inside it, then dock the big ship in a base you built yourself after buying a plot of space. Look at this banana I taught to speak fifty languages! No, of course it doesn’t have anything interesting to say: It’s a banana.

Base building is similar. It’s definitely there. It’s there as heck. It’s extensive, and varied, and complex, and allows you to make your own, personal mark on X4’s universe. You can tie these stations into your economic empire, outfit them with docking bays and weapons to ward off potential marauders. Nearly everything I bullet point about X4 sounds utterly fantastic, doesn’t it? So much so that I’m left to wonder if the game was designed with this premise in mind. A galaxy of shining bullet points posing as stars.



So X4: Foundations has the Skyrim problem. It provides a framework for a good time if you approach it completely dead set on having a good time, but you’re going to have to do much, if not all, of the work yourself. It does scale, and it does isolation. But it doesn’t do wonder, or discovery. There’s nothing notable or distinct about X4’s universe, save a few creature and ship designs with no sense of history behind them. And honestly, remove the ‘opera’ from space opera, and you’re just left with space. As in vast emptiness.

But look, here’s a thing. There’s a lot of downtime in X4, because even the fastest your ship can move is slow compared to the vastness of the locations, and I often found myself floating through space for several minutes at a time. I have a small essential oil diffuser on my desk that lights up different colours. When I piloted my ship over long distances, I made sure I had that light on, glowing a soft neon violet in the background, because it made me feel more like I was in the cockpit of a spaceship. Sitting back, gazing at orange-tinged ephemera and passing mining freighters, my bedroom cast in the early evening darkness of South Walian winter, X4 completely transported me to the pilot’s seat.



Exploring the universe to bubbly, excitable synths is always going to stir something inside of us, I think, and X4 is no different. There’s beauty to be found here, among the stars. But it’s going to take a more dedicated role-player than myself – or at least someone far more interested in systems for their own sake – to buy into this flimsy simulation for very long.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
active radiant-AI style ecosystem of ships and factions and trade and crime.

:what:

Any economy simulation is now "Radiant-AI style". Do they just let every meth addict become a game journo now?
 

cw8

Cipher
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
677
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/12/10/x4-foundations-review/
Exploring the universe to bubbly, excitable synths is always going to stir something inside of us, I think, and X4 is no different. There’s beauty to be found here, among the stars. But it’s going to take a more dedicated role-player than myself – or at least someone far more interested in systems for their own sake – to buy into this flimsy simulation for very long.

Why "review" the game then? They seem to have more time complaining about the lack of genders after watching the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer then actually playing a time consuming game series like X. No mention at all about the empire building which is what is core to the X series. Never took them seriously for a while now.
 

Turjan

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Mar 31, 2008
Messages
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Some people are easy to please.



It's funny that he sells his observation as a "good thing". Having the whole economy of the game depend on what the player does is not my idea of a good economic simulation.
Should be fixable though.
 

Niklasgunner

Savant
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Aug 6, 2017
Messages
153
https://steamcommunity.com/app/392160/discussions/0/1744479698813170016/ apparently the economy dying is fixed in 1.32 beta branch
  • Removed ability to assign trading/mining ships to invalid tasks and commanders.
  • Fixed factions not building new ships.
  • Fixed highway destinations not being displayed in target monitor.
  • Fixed guild missions not correctly restarting if a mission was failed or aborted.
  • Fixed player-owned ships formerly belonging to pirates sometimes attacking the player.
  • Fixed getting stuck in trader areas on the Teladi trade station.
  • Fixed being able to save game while Game Over is displayed.
  • Fixed occasional menu crash when changing crew at a shipyard/wharf/equipment dock.
  • Fixed Load Game menu breaking when trying to load an empty savegame slot.
  • Fixed Confirm/Cancel buttons sometimes missing in ship or station configuration menus.
  • Fixed top menu arrow not showing in Chinese/Korean localisations.
  • Fixed another cause of rare crashes.
 

Raapys

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Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,994
It's fascinating I think, how pretty much every single gameplay system or feature has one or more bugs, often severe. You'd expect problems with the complex systems like the econ and war simulations, but ship turrets and combat AI are basic gameplay features and should never have made it into release in this state.

Why is it that german engineering does so well with physical products but so terribly bad with software?
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
It's fascinating I think, how pretty much every single gameplay system or feature has one or more bugs, often severe. You'd expect problems with the complex systems like the econ and war simulations, but ship turrets and combat AI are basic gameplay features and should never have made it into release in this state.

Why is it that german engineering does so well with physical products but so terribly bad with software?

Even the autopilot, a feature they've had for 19 years, since the very first game, is bugged beyond belief.
 

Raapys

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Messages
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Yeah, I think they have an excuse for the overall poor performance of the autopilot; with so many simulated ships it might not be feasible performance-wise to improve its navigation much. But that's still not an excuse for the straight-up bugs like ships driving right into the center of stations and through entire modules. They already did better than that in X3 by having docking-lanes that led the ships to the correct spots.
 

Niklasgunner

Savant
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Messages
153
Some people are easy to please.



It's funny that he sells his observation as a "good thing". Having the whole economy of the game depend on what the player does is not my idea of a good economic simulation.
Should be fixable though.

Since the AI didn't seem to build any ships the result was literally this.
You were the only moving cog in the universe, as a result also the only one affecting the economy after the resources settled in. Should be fixed now, but it seems like a ridiculous oversight.
 

Zarniwoop

TESTOSTERONIC As Fuck™
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Shadorwun: Hong Kong
Yeah, I think they have an excuse for the overall poor performance of the autopilot; with so many simulated ships it might not be feasible performance-wise to improve its navigation much. But that's still not an excuse for the straight-up bugs like ships driving right into the center of stations and through entire modules. They already did better than that in X3 by having docking-lanes that led the ships to the correct spots.
FAR fewer ships than earlier games and the AP worked (mostly) fine in all of them.
 

Thane Solus

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X-COM Base
- it seems even now, turrets are broken for your AI, but now even for enemy AI. Some reported the Xenon and Kha dont fire back in some situations.
- shipyards and stations are almost invincible, a 50 warships fleet cant kill them
- docking AI its horrible...
- behaviors are halfbaked or broken...
- no real information in encyfailpedia

So you build your empire, with a broken explore behavior (fixed by mods), auto mining - works, kinda (ignores prices), auto trade (kinda works, but mostly broken no real profit - basic Mk1 in X3 made more), no special custom trading (go take that, bring to x, sell it to y for z, etc) cause fuck you, and then you use the station building, which is quite fine i like it, create a fleet and watch how your ships dont really work, how fleet management is broken (wings), there is no logistic arms or behaviors, how your ships cant shoot for a shit (an M3 can be taken a Nova quite easily without missiles), watch how your fleet is useless.

50+ hours well spent. GG Egosoft! 50 Euros, hahaha (no i wont buy it ever, after the black panther stations in Argon, and alpha testing, no thanks, maybe at 10 dollars in 1 year).

Will be close to fully playable maybe at the end of month, most likely January, with the help of mods, without, most likely March. Without mods, this is would be a dead game, day 1, and they know it. Its like they didnt even fucking test it once, a fully 'playthrough'.

Everything is shit these days...
 
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Turjan

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Mar 31, 2008
Messages
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Everything is shit these days...
I know I have said this already a few times, but that has always been the standard for Egosoft. It's not an excuse, but that's the reason why I only buy Egosoft games quite some time after release. They may become very enjoyable at some point, but that usually takes a while.
 

Hobo Elf

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Platypus Planet
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/12/10/x4-foundations-review/
Exploring the universe to bubbly, excitable synths is always going to stir something inside of us, I think, and X4 is no different. There’s beauty to be found here, among the stars. But it’s going to take a more dedicated role-player than myself – or at least someone far more interested in systems for their own sake – to buy into this flimsy simulation for very long.

Why "review" the game then? They seem to have more time complaining about the lack of genders after watching the Cyberpunk 2077 trailer then actually playing a time consuming game series like X. No mention at all about the empire building which is what is core to the X series. Never took them seriously for a while now.
Reviewers rarely get to review what they are interested in. Usually they are assigned a game and that's why so many reviews are half-assed when they aren't paid shill pieces.
 

Mortmal

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Jun 15, 2009
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- it seems even know, turrets are broken for your AI, but now even for enemy AI. Some reported the Xenon and Kha dont fire back in some situations.
- shipyards and stations are almost invincible, a 50 warships fleet cant kill them
- docking AI its horrible...
- behaviors are halfbaked or broken...
- no real information in encyfailpedia

So you build your empire, with a broken explore behavior (fixed by mods), auto mining - works, kinda (ignores prices), auto trade (kinda works, but mostly broken no real profit - basic Mk1 in X3 made more), no special custom trading (go take that, bring to x, sell it to y for z, etc) cause fuck you, and then you use the station building, which is quite fine i like it, create a fleet and watch how your ships dont really work, how fleet management is broken (wings), there is no logistic arms or behaviors, how your ships cant shoot for a shit (an M3 can be taken a Nova quite easily without missiles), watch how your fleet is useless.

50+ hours well spent. GG Egosoft! 50 Euros, hahaha (no i wont buy it ever, after the black panther stations in Argon, and alpha testing, no thanks, maybe at 10 dollars in 1 year).

Will be close to fully playable maybe at the end of month, most likely January, with the help of mods, without, most likely March. Without mods, this is would be a dead game, day 1, and they know it. Its like they didnt even fucking test it once, a fully 'playthrough'.

Everything is shit these days...
You can torrent it, i bought collector edition and not playing it , cause its too broken. We can say i paid for you.
 

Razor

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Sep 22, 2014
Messages
942
So the sectors dont have fixed borders but they expand based on the furtherst point reached. It seems there is hidden stuff in the further regions but still on mikro distances in cosmic terms. Furthers number I have heard is about 700km from the sector reference point.

Elite Dangerous is a hyper casual space sim at its core but one of the things I really like is the sheer scale of it. Yes, its 99,9% randomly generated and you have space magic tech like hyperdrives and witch space but even with those it can take several weeks if not months for long range or/detailed expeditions.

Really wish one could get X style single player economic and moddable gameplay in something like elites sandbox. Local instancing actually works in the games favour as you dont need to render hardware and infrastructure not until the player has dropped in the instance, with most of the galactic industry working as a numbers game in the background simulation. Plus when taking into account cosmic scales it also makes sense to use magic tech like hyperdrives to travel from one complex instance to another, even when they orbit the same body, as it effectively ignores messing around with conventional orbital mechanics. Of course there are other obviously strong advantages to Elites sandbox, like exploration and combat gameplay when coupled with no multiplayer restrictions and mod support.

But alas its not gonna happen anytime soon: Egosoft is a small outfit and what they have goes into building foundations for the mod base. On the other hand outfits like Frontier claim to have over 100 people working on ED, although I have a suspicion that they have management and/or inefficiency issues either with the production side and/or games fundamental code structure. At least they have claimed that its hard to modify the game without things going very wrong very fast and it does look bad considering how rarely anything substantial is added, how long bugs are left standing and how slow they react to hotfix issues.
 

Perkel

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Mar 28, 2014
Messages
16,240
I watched that video and i am shocked about what he said.

1.5 and 2.0. 2.0!!!!!!
1.5 - few bug fixes before christmass
2.0 - ?? player shipyards, jan-feb.

I assume in 3 years they will be at 1432.0

He said that those sectors are only showing inside of them what is explored much like whole map scales to sectors you discover.
Meaning that initial stuff in sector is just default zoom level but not the whole extend of sector.
Simply put there are whole stations and stuff behind supposed border and sector map will zoom out once you go past borders.
I need to test it.

So what people basically see is minimal zoom rather than full sectors.


Speaking of borders sectors and stuff, look what modders are doing right now.
They managed to create json tool to generate framework for new galaxy and they are working on implementing complete X3 galaxy.

8864586ECA406B51FC14C7741C7D1101BE5F66EE


Also there is mod that removes completely highways.
 
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Perkel

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Really wish one could get X style single player economic and moddable gameplay in something like elites sandbox. Local instancing actually works in the games favour as you dont need to render hardware and infrastructure not until the player has dropped in the instance, with most of the galactic industry working as a numbers game in the background simulation.

No. Elite "economy" is just garbage fake economy which spawns everything around you and despawns it completely when you don't see it. The whole influence companies etc. also is fake because there are no ships going in-out to do stuff. If factions don't like each other they will just spawn combat situation near your ship for you to see it.

X games take hard aproach, sure previous games and X4 does have some fudging (like missions spawning, pirates etc) but overall whole economy works and you can track every item moving, being used etc.

Which is also why X games usually hammer CPU while Elite have million fps.
 

Urthor

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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
My experience:

-start game
-fire up tutorial
-tutorial bugs out on extra long range scanner part and I can't complete it

Stop playing game because if it can't get this shit right it's got way more problems in store for me
 

Razor

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Sep 22, 2014
Messages
942
No. Elite "economy" is just garbage fake economy which spawns everything around you and despawns it completely when you don't see it. The whole influence companies etc. also is fake because there are no ships going in-out to do stuff. If factions don't like each other they will just spawn combat situation near your ship for you to see it.

X games take hard aproach, sure previous games and X4 does have some fudging (like missions spawning, pirates etc) but overall whole economy works and you can track every item moving, being used etc.

Which is also why X games usually hammer CPU while Elite have million fps.

Yeah, well I was speaking about X- style economic gameplay (i.e. based on supply-demand-econ sink, etc.) in ED scale galaxy with instance mechanics for actually rendering all the stuff (stations, ships etc). Keeps GPU load manageable.

Even in ED-s case it is undoubtedly way more primitive on a micro and macroeconomic scale but there does seem to be some economic background simulation going on. I suspect this is one of the many reasons they chose the online-server approach. Currently they have over 20 000 colonized star systems. That is over 20 000 systems with their own station lists and some sort of production lists. Coupled with whatever the player is doing it undoubtedly would be a severe CPU strain for local machines to handle it. Probably impossible for something as detailed as a X-game. But one does not need to have over 20k systems. In a single player ED even 200 would be more then enough. The current bubble (ie, the main cluster of colonized space), even with its absurd numbers of colonized systems is still a small blip compared to the rest of the Milky Way. Although now that I think of it a no online, X-detailed, ED scale space sim would be tricky to pull off without overloading CPU-s. Even in 90% numbers game keeping track of all the different agents, production lines, travel distances etc is still lots of details sperging out. And this is only simulated economy side of things.
 

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