X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

[veevoir]

Can't he jump down or move? ontopic - maybe try dropping a EVAC zone directly centered on him, though if there is a roof it might not work as intended (it always lays on the highest layer)

 

[ArchAngel]

I tried to flank the patrols to get to a landed UFO, in order to engage as close as possible to the UFO. When I got to the opposite corner, the 4 pods defending the UFO zeored on my squad, and revealed it. To add insult to injury, only one overwatch shot was successful. I had to face 4 snakes, 1 MEC, 2 sectoids, 1 Mutton, 1 shield bearer, 2 stun lancers, with no space to pulback. No one made it back alive.
I find recovering from such setbacks harder than in XCOM : losing all these PCS, weapon mods, and proving ground items really adds salt to the wound.
My sniper really deserved his gravedigger nickname. He caused the death of so many squadmates through sheer incompetence...

You are aware of the "lay skyranger evac zone and get the fuck out" button? You can actually drop the evac zone on top of your squad, move to it, fire and grenade stuff for lulz and leave.
There is no delay, evac zone is dropped instantly.
Just fail is much more preferable than fail AND get everyone killed.

Protip: You can also use it to evac single soldiers that are poisoned burning and whatever (as long as you can move them). As long as there is one soldier left you can still finish the objectives and get mission successful.
This actually trivializes any DoT damage, now you can have dead soldiers only if murdered within one enemy turn. So it means dead folks appear only in the beginnig phas eof the game.

Hmm I never tried this (didn't need it), but I assumed from marketing videos that dropping that down in the middle of missions would need a few turns before it activates.

 

[veevoir]

Nope, instant. It definitely *should* take at least one turn (lets be reasonable, in missions that resolve in 8-9 turns more than 1 would be waiting forever),but no delay is ridiculous. Sure you fight with less people in squad, but do not lose precious high-ranked soldiers and their precious equipment.

And you can spam evac every X turn (I think it refreshes after 2 turns).

 

[Silva]

My rig is overheating with this game. Last night my core reached 95º.

Anyone else having this ?

 

[Jasede]

If you also find Legendary Ironman too easy you can try playing with Beagle's increased difficulty tweaks.

1. Beagle's Legendary+ Changes and Modifications 0.1 - 2/17/2016
2. 
   
3. ----------------------------------------------
4. These changes and modifications are aimed at taking the vanilla experience and simply increasing its difficulty.
5. Enemies are smarter, more numerous and gain accuracy bonuses as they get closer to you.
6. XCOM's three main crutches for flawless missions - Grenades, Shotguns and Mimic Beacons - were all tweaked down to prevent them from trivializing the game.
7. Explosive damage falls off the further away an enemy is from the center of the blast ala Long War, Shotguns have a more punishing aim penalty at range (again, like Long War), and Mimic Beacons are incredibly fragile and easy to hit.
8. The above aims to fix three big imbalances of vanilla - Grenadiers beat everything, Shotguns are insane, and Mimic Beacons are a get out of jail free card.
9. 
   
10. I considered the old "Impossible" EU style of balancing - +10 Aim and Crit buffs for most enemies - but I think ADVENT and Aliens have so many powerful abilities in XCOM2 that they don't even need it with the +1 enemy counts and weakened Grenadiers. Maybe in the future if this isn't hard enough, we can add that.
11. 
    
12. I wanted this to be only difficulty increasers but I also like having fun, so there are a few improvements for the player that bothered me too much to play without:
13. Deadeye not being worthless. Seriously, rolling this as your AWC perk in vanilla is a slap in the face. With the vanilla aim penalty, I don't even use this perk when they give it to me for free.
14. Retroactive AWC to stop missing the free perk on soldiers who level too fast. I hate getting to Colonel and realising I missed my AWC perk at Corporal. It's like realising your son will never amount to anything.
15. Non-tile-snapping AoE abilities. With explosive damage falloff, tile snapping is no longer a balance concern and is now just an inconvenience, so it can go away.
16. Beatdown Skill. The rifle butt ability I've wanted since EU that is way too awesome to not have enabled. 100% mandatory and I'll pistol whip anyone who tries to take it away from me.
17. 
    
18. ----------------------------------------------
19. 
    
20. XCOM 2 CONFIG CHANGES
21. 
    
22. ---------------------------------
23. DefaultMissions.ini
25. +1 enemy added to all pods.
26. 
    
27. ---------------------------------
28. 
    
29. DefaultAI.ini
30. AI is smarter, more patient, and have more interest in their own survival, though they will still aggressively charge and flank to score good shots. Details below:
31. 
    
32. FallbackChance increased to 0.75, from 0.5 - Enemies more likely to withdraw to allies when their podmates are wiped out
33. 
    
34. CURR_TILE_LINGER_PENALTY to 1.0, from 0.75 - Enemies won't move for the sake of moving, camping when necessary
35. 
    
36. CALC_FULL_COVER_FACTOR to 2.5, from 1.1 - Enemies will value Heavy Cover as a significant priority when available.
37. 
    
38. DEFAULT_AI_SPREAD_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER to 0.7, from 0.2 - Enemies understand clustering together is bad, but will accept it's worth it to score good shots or share good cover.
39. 
    
40. MAX_SURPRISED_SCAMPER_PATH_LENGTH to 8 from 6 - Enemies are allowed to move further when activated.
41. 
    
42. AoEProfiles edited - Enemies are allowed to use grenades and explosives to attack single targets instead of requiring XCOM to cluster.
43. 
    
44. 
    
45. ------------------------------
46. DefaultGameData_WeaponData.ini
47. 
    
48. Alien preferred engagement ranges altered throughout. Most enemies should stay at a distance that reflects their best strengths and personality (ADVENT soldiers at mid range, support aliens skirting at max range, melee and tank charging into close range)
49. 
    
50. Enemy granted equal range bonuses to player troops. By default, vanilla enemies do *not* gain range bonuses for being closer.
51. 
    
52. Shotgun aim penalty at range significantly increased.
53. 
    
54. -------------------------------
56. DefaultGameData_SoldierSkills.ini
58. Mimic Beacons nerfed - now have 1 HP and -20 defense
60. Deadeye's aim penalty removed. (I know, it's an XCOM buff, but I have not wanted to use this skill once in vanilla, even when I roll it through the AWC. 25% less aim for a few points more damage is so awful. Let me have this.)
62. 
    
64. GAMEPLAY ALTERING MODS IN USE:
65. 
    
66. LWS Centurion Muton, XCOM Officers and XCOM SMGs
67. True Retroactive AWC (Because Colonels who leveled too fast to get their free perk are a tragedy I can live without)
68. Bleedoutmod (With halved chances - A soldier with 50 will has a 25% chance to bleed out rather than die instantly)
69. Grenades Damage Falloff
70. Non-tile-Snapping Grenades
71. Non-tile-Snapping Psi Abilities
72. Hazmat vest fix (Fixes the bug where Hazmat vests do not protect you from Acid properly)
73. Beatdown Skill (RIFLE BUTT SECTOIDS EVERY DAY)

Of course the guy somehow still aces 99% of all missions without getting injured...

 

[Zombra]

My rig is overheating with this game. Last night my core reached 95º.
Anyone else having this ?

Not me personally, but it is a widespread issue.

 

[Mozg]

If you also find Legendary Ironman too easy you can try playing with Beagle's increased difficulty tweaks.

1. Beagle's Legendary+ Changes and Modifications 0.1 - 2/17/2016
2. 
   
3. ----------------------------------------------
4. These changes and modifications are aimed at taking the vanilla experience and simply increasing its difficulty.
5. Enemies are smarter, more numerous and gain accuracy bonuses as they get closer to you.
6. XCOM's three main crutches for flawless missions - Grenades, Shotguns and Mimic Beacons - were all tweaked down to prevent them from trivializing the game.
7. Explosive damage falls off the further away an enemy is from the center of the blast ala Long War, Shotguns have a more punishing aim penalty at range (again, like Long War), and Mimic Beacons are incredibly fragile and easy to hit.
8. The above aims to fix three big imbalances of vanilla - Grenadiers beat everything, Shotguns are insane, and Mimic Beacons are a get out of jail free card.
9. 
   
10. I considered the old "Impossible" EU style of balancing - +10 Aim and Crit buffs for most enemies - but I think ADVENT and Aliens have so many powerful abilities in XCOM2 that they don't even need it with the +1 enemy counts and weakened Grenadiers. Maybe in the future if this isn't hard enough, we can add that.
11. 
    
12. I wanted this to be only difficulty increasers but I also like having fun, so there are a few improvements for the player that bothered me too much to play without:
13. Deadeye not being worthless. Seriously, rolling this as your AWC perk in vanilla is a slap in the face. With the vanilla aim penalty, I don't even use this perk when they give it to me for free.
14. Retroactive AWC to stop missing the free perk on soldiers who level too fast. I hate getting to Colonel and realising I missed my AWC perk at Corporal. It's like realising your son will never amount to anything.
15. Non-tile-snapping AoE abilities. With explosive damage falloff, tile snapping is no longer a balance concern and is now just an inconvenience, so it can go away.
16. Beatdown Skill. The rifle butt ability I've wanted since EU that is way too awesome to not have enabled. 100% mandatory and I'll pistol whip anyone who tries to take it away from me.
17. 
    
18. ----------------------------------------------
19. 
    
20. XCOM 2 CONFIG CHANGES
21. 
    
22. ---------------------------------
23. DefaultMissions.ini
25. +1 enemy added to all pods.
26. 
    
27. ---------------------------------
28. 
    
29. DefaultAI.ini
30. AI is smarter, more patient, and have more interest in their own survival, though they will still aggressively charge and flank to score good shots. Details below:
31. 
    
32. FallbackChance increased to 0.75, from 0.5 - Enemies more likely to withdraw to allies when their podmates are wiped out
33. 
    
34. CURR_TILE_LINGER_PENALTY to 1.0, from 0.75 - Enemies won't move for the sake of moving, camping when necessary
35. 
    
36. CALC_FULL_COVER_FACTOR to 2.5, from 1.1 - Enemies will value Heavy Cover as a significant priority when available.
37. 
    
38. DEFAULT_AI_SPREAD_WEIGHT_MULTIPLIER to 0.7, from 0.2 - Enemies understand clustering together is bad, but will accept it's worth it to score good shots or share good cover.
39. 
    
40. MAX_SURPRISED_SCAMPER_PATH_LENGTH to 8 from 6 - Enemies are allowed to move further when activated.
41. 
    
42. AoEProfiles edited - Enemies are allowed to use grenades and explosives to attack single targets instead of requiring XCOM to cluster.
43. 
    
44. 
    
45. ------------------------------
46. DefaultGameData_WeaponData.ini
47. 
    
48. Alien preferred engagement ranges altered throughout. Most enemies should stay at a distance that reflects their best strengths and personality (ADVENT soldiers at mid range, support aliens skirting at max range, melee and tank charging into close range)
49. 
    
50. Enemy granted equal range bonuses to player troops. By default, vanilla enemies do *not* gain range bonuses for being closer.
51. 
    
52. Shotgun aim penalty at range significantly increased.
53. 
    
54. -------------------------------
56. DefaultGameData_SoldierSkills.ini
58. Mimic Beacons nerfed - now have 1 HP and -20 defense
60. Deadeye's aim penalty removed. (I know, it's an XCOM buff, but I have not wanted to use this skill once in vanilla, even when I roll it through the AWC. 25% less aim for a few points more damage is so awful. Let me have this.)
62. 
    
64. GAMEPLAY ALTERING MODS IN USE:
65. 
    
66. LWS Centurion Muton, XCOM Officers and XCOM SMGs
67. True Retroactive AWC (Because Colonels who leveled too fast to get their free perk are a tragedy I can live without)
68. Bleedoutmod (With halved chances - A soldier with 50 will has a 25% chance to bleed out rather than die instantly)
69. Grenades Damage Falloff
70. Non-tile-Snapping Grenades
71. Non-tile-Snapping Psi Abilities
72. Hazmat vest fix (Fixes the bug where Hazmat vests do not protect you from Acid properly)
73. Beatdown Skill (RIFLE BUTT SECTOIDS EVERY DAY)

Of course the guy somehow still aces 99% of all missions without getting injured...

I watched some of his stream with this and the early game looks like cancer. He spent 60 turns on the gatecrasher mission trying to wait until shit patrolled into overwatch. It really needs the full Long War treatment where you get much more flexibility right away and the midgame+ gets a titanic difficulty climb, instead of something that will make the first 5 or so missions miserable.

 

[Jasede]

Yeah, I did speak too soon. He was doing great during his first draft of modifications - which were like above, but grenades were 1-5 damage and the squad size was 6 - but playing with this set of settings with vanilla squad size and 3-4 grenade damage with range fall-off is absolutely, absolutely brutal.

It'd be great to have the "Long War" treatment, as you say.

 

[Mozg]

Most inexplicable game change I can think of: They made it so one dice roll resolves hits, crits, and dodging simultaneously. You can imagine every hit roll being resolved similarly to the visualized hacking rolls.

This gives you the weird behavior that if you have (say) a 50% to-hit with a 50% to-crit, any hit will always be a critical.

If the target has dodge, it overrides normal hits "first", i.e. if you have a 50% to-hit and a 40% crit on a target with 10% dodge, then 50% of the time you'll miss, 10% of the time you'll graze, and 40% of the time you'll crit.

It's like they were really designing it as a boardgame to the point that they were even trying to reduce how many times you have to physically roll dice.

 

[LizardWizard]

So his balance changes didn't include any Haywire Protocol or Psi nerfs? Or does he just not use those completely and utterly broken mechanics?

 

[Disgruntled]

So his balance changes didn't include any Haywire Protocol or Psi nerfs? Or does he just not use those completely and utterly broken mechanics?

I was wondering about that too. A lot of his changes are ones ive considered necessary to stop the cheese, but he stopped short of doing anything with Psis. I suspect its due to the lack of any mods that nerf them yet.

Haywire protocol is a bit less of a problem imo. In the commander campaign i finished, there was never a point where the chance of controlling a level corresponding bot was worth the risk of making it stronger and wasting my specialist's turn. Maybe those that managed to gain the +20 hacking boost from mission objectives had it differently. Or people take the risk by using a mimic beacon if it failed i guess.

 

[LizardWizard]

Haywire protocol is a bit less of a problem imo. In the commander campaign i finished, there was never a point where the chance of controlling a level corresponding bot was worth the risk of making it stronger and wasting my specialist's turn. Maybe those that managed to gain the +20 hacking boost from mission objectives had it differently. Or people take the risk by using a mimic beacon if it failed i guess.

100% to stun for two turns makes any mech on the map a complete, utter joke and basically xp farm for the scrub ranks, not to mention the cooldown isn't even that long compared to Domination which is 1 per mission. If you're running two specialists or even EMP bombs then the risk of a missed MC is more than worth it.

 

[Zeriel]

My rig is overheating with this game. Last night my core reached 95º.

Anyone else having this ?

Nah, the opposite. Utilization only goes above 50% when moving units. At certain times CPU usage spikes but generally it acts as if it's idle.

 

[Jimmious]

So the new tagline for XCOM2 : The game that makes people rage about mechanics, bugs, rng, difficulty and optimization...but they cant stop playing.

Take ArchAngel for example. He has complained about approximately 100 different issues but I'll bet he has more than 50 hours logged already

 

[Jasede]

Yes, and after 50 hours he's going to decide "It's not worth my money." and calls it a day. I hate pirates that lie. Oh, I don't mind pirates; it's the lying ones that get to me. If you're going to be a pirate, be honest about it; none of that "Oh I'll buy it if I like it" shit. Ain't fooling nobody. We didn't do that in the Amiga days and you sure as fuck don't get to do it now.

 

[ArchAngel]

So the new tagline for XCOM2 : The game that makes people rage about mechanics, bugs, rng, difficulty and optimization...but they cant stop playing.

Take ArchAngel for example. He has complained about approximately 100 different issues but I'll bet he has more than 50 hours logged already

I didn't complain about 100 different things and except for bugs those were minor things. Lore complaints in a tactical turn based party game is a very minor complaint

If I gave an impression I didn't enjoy the game, I am sorry. My complaints were about wanting to enjoy it even more. In its current state lets say 8/10 would be my score. Once they fix most bugs and made missions more sensical I could see myself give it 9/10.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yes, and after 50 hours he's going to decide "It's not worth my money." and calls it a day. I hate pirates that lie. Oh, I don't mind pirates; it's the lying ones that get to me. If you're going to be a pirate, be honest about it; none of that "Oh I'll buy it if I like it" shit. Ain't fooling nobody. We didn't do that in the Amiga days and you sure as fuck don't get to do it now.

Oh, but I never said any of that. I said that the current version of the game is not worth the price. I would never pay 50 euro for a game like this being this buggy (well I never buy games for more than 30 euro), for 50 euro the game would need to be fucking awesome, best game ever. 50 euro is a lot of money over here, not something you give to unbalanced, buggy releases with no real replay value.

In one year when they sell a Goty edition with DLC included and bugs fixed I can buy it on Steam sale for 30 euro and I plan to.

 

[Jimmious]

Man if XCOM2 is not replayable, what game is? But anyway I wasnt trying to bash you, its something that I notice happening a lot , you were just a good example

 

[ArchAngel]

Xcom EW is more replayable in my book.

 

[Zeriel]

Xcom EW is more replayable in my book.

That's how I feel too. After my first finish on L+I (didn't try the lower difficulties), I don't feel as if there is anything really new left to see in the game. Maybe if I had started on a lower difficulty I would feel differently, but the way they approached replayability this time doesn't work as well for me. I know that the countries bonuses being randomized and the Proving Grounds and etc is supposed to help replayability, but I preferred the way it was in EU where you got to pick a different starting location with different bonuses, when it's out of your control it's much less interesting and just something you ignore for the most part. And I saw every single proving grounds project in one playthrough, got every psi ability, etc etc.

The performance issues are a serious drag, but even those aside I think after a few years have passed I'm going to look back more fondly on EU than I do on XCOM 2. It's a fun little game, but the bits they trimmed feel so central to the XCOM experience. Interceptions, interrogations... I miss them both. Here we have a game about fighting aliens where UFOs barely appear at all.

EU was a game that was greater than the sum of its parts. XCOM 2 feels like the opposite: from a design standpoint I understand why they made most every change they did and I mostly agree, but at the end of the day it's a game that feels somehow less than the sum of all of its individually superior components.

I'm a huge fan, but it kind of just left me feeling empty after I finished it, to be honest. Which is the exact opposite of how I felt after playing EU for the first time.

 

[Cyberarmy]

That's how I feel too.

 

[ArchAngel]

Xcom EW is more replayable in my book.

That's how I feel too. After my first finish on L+I (didn't try the lower difficulties), I don't feel as if there is anything really new left to see in the game. Maybe if I had started on a lower difficulty I would feel differently, but the way they approached replayability this time doesn't work as well for me. I know that the countries bonuses being randomized and the Proving Grounds and etc is supposed to help replayability, but I preferred the way it was in EU where you got to pick a different starting location with different bonuses, when it's out of your control it's much less interesting and just something you ignore for the most part. And I saw every single proving grounds project in one playthrough, got every psi ability, etc etc.

The performance issues are a serious drag, but even those aside I think after a few years have passed I'm going to look back more fondly on EU than I do on XCOM 2. It's a fun little game, but the bits they trimmed feel so central to the XCOM experience. Interceptions, interrogations... I miss them both. Here we have a game about fighting aliens where UFOs barely appear at all.

EU was a game that was greater than the sum of its parts. XCOM 2 feels like the opposite: from a design standpoint I understand why they made most every change they did and I mostly agree, but at the end of the day it's a game that feels somehow less than the sum of all of its individually superior components.

I'm a huge fan, but it kind of just left me feeling empty after I finished it, to be honest. Which is the exact opposite of how I felt after playing EU for the first time.

My biggest complaint is mission variety. They made maps more random but missions more uniform.
All missions except 2 play super similar due to timers and there is only one UFO type mission. Also no set memorable missions outside main quest missions (like all chrysalids and some others in Xcom EW).

Terror missions are also basically a c/p from EU and EW and missions like object defense are way worse than EW equivalent.

 

[Jimmious]

I don't know I have a bit of the opposite view. I did play through EU and EW in total like 3-4 times but in the end I knew all the maps and unit placement etc, so it felt like a choir to replay everything.
Now with XCOM 2 I've restarted quite some times but I didn't get bored yet at all.
Also I'm already using 7 small mods and I can't even imagine what will be out after I finish the game once.
Add to that the generated maps, character pool, randomized boni etc... I can't see me stopping playing the game in the foreseeable future tbh

 

[veevoir]

but how there is a bigger mission variety in EW?
Kill everything, kill everything in downed/landed UFO, VIP, bomb, terror mission. Add to that Newfunland, the happy troll boy mission from EW.

+story missions, but that is varied in both games.

 

[Zeriel]

Yeah, EW basically had three mission types:

Kill everything, defuse bomb, Exalt.

I think some people just really liked the handmade maps more, but let's not kid ourselves, XCOM 2 has a huge mission variety compared to any other X-COM game, I'd argue it even outstrips the originals in that regard.