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X-COM XCOM 2 + War of the Chosen Expansion Thread

ArchAngel

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I found out something new and cool from this video. In expansion when you mouse over a spot you are thinking to move to, you can press Alt and the game will show you your options from this spot. They didn't show how that looks exactly but I am sure there will be gameplay videos of it closer we get to release date.
 

luinthoron

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Not much new we haven't already heard in the Polygon article, but I quite liked this detail:
There’s even a chance that two soldiers who don’t really get along could change their opinion of one another. For instance, Solomon said, if a soldier saves a comrade that they actively dislike their relationship could begin to change.
 

ArchAngel

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Not much new we haven't already heard in the Polygon article, but I quite liked this detail:
There’s even a chance that two soldiers who don’t really get along could change their opinion of one another. For instance, Solomon said, if a soldier saves a comrade that they actively dislike their relationship could begin to change.
I think they are going way too much into stupid details with this while I am sure the Strategic parts of the game are still going to be simple and stupid.
 

Falksi

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Zactly. Yay for more humanoid type creatures. Especially the one who just look like ANOTHER human soldier (but with long fingernails of course). Fucking yawn.
 

Zombra

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Not much new we haven't already heard in the Polygon article, but I quite liked this detail:
There’s even a chance that two soldiers who don’t really get along could change their opinion of one another. For instance, Solomon said, if a soldier saves a comrade that they actively dislike their relationship could begin to change.
I think they are going way too much into stupid details with this.
Ever heard of Jagged Alliance?
 

ArchAngel

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Not much new we haven't already heard in the Polygon article, but I quite liked this detail:
There’s even a chance that two soldiers who don’t really get along could change their opinion of one another. For instance, Solomon said, if a soldier saves a comrade that they actively dislike their relationship could begin to change.
I think they are going way too much into stupid details with this.
Ever heard of Jagged Alliance?
This is not Jagged Alliance or even close to that greatness. Don't sully the name by bringing it up in this topic.
 

Zombra

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This is not Jagged Alliance or even close to that greatness. Don't sully the name by bringing it up in this topic.
I see. So if one tactical game series you like has personality interaction among its units, it's great. If another series you don't like tries to do something similar, they're stupid and should stop.
I guess that's whatcha call incline. :|
 

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https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/06/20/xcom-2-war-of-the-chosen-preview/

XCOM 2: War of the Chosen’s alien champions, lost cities and soldier bonds explained
Adam Smith on June 20th, 2017 at 8:30 pm.

chosenheader.jpg


Fallen cities swarming with the dangerous remnants of their human populations, alien battlefield commanders who resemble fantastical heroes, new rulesets for friendship and fear, and an actual active resistance out on the Geoscape. XCOM 2 [official site] is changing.

The War of the Chosen is “definitely the biggest expansion we’ve ever done”, lead designer Jake Solomon told us at E3. Introducing unique enemy champions doesn’t strike me as an obvious move for XCOM, so I asked Solomon how the concept of the expansion had developed, and whether he’d drawn any inspiration from Shadow of Mordor’s Nemesis system. And whether we can expect any terrors from the deep in the future.

It’s about warmth.

“One of the things that happens in XCOM is that when you’re on the Geoscape, you’re sending out squads and dealing with things, but nobody ever moves around on there. You don’t ever get a sense of it being a living world. Part of this comes from playing early builds of Civ II and I love the leaders. They make you feel that there are other entities playing this game and that have stakes in it.

“It makes it warmer. You want to feel like there are other characters either with or without you. I always felt the Geoscape is really cold. Nobody is really commenting on the things you’re doing. It doesn’t feel as epic as, say, a Civ. There’s a very different feel and it’s much warmer if there are other entities vying for control.”

As Lemony Snicket might say, “Warmth, a word which here means ‘giving the impression of life and activity.'” This cuts down from the high-level concept of three Advent champions who move and react on the strategic layer, and involve themselves in combat on the tactical layer, to the interactions between individual XCOM soldiers. They can form bonds now and can accrue what Solomon calls “quirks” if they become overtired or stressed. If the Chosen remind me of Mordor’s Nemesis system, these quirks sound like they could have been plucked from Darkest Dungeon and then remoulded. The example he gives is an ‘obsessive’ trait, which causes soldiers to use their second action to reload their guns occasionally if the clip isn’t full. You can get rid of these quirks but they provide more ingredients for the storytelling pot, as well as providing an extra challenge.

chosen1.jpg


“The fact that the soldiers form bonds is a natural progression of your own head canon,” Solomon says. “XCOM has a story running through the campaign, in the cutscenes and the mission progression, but it has always been about the stories that players create in the moment. We’re systematising the head canon.”

The biggest change is the introduction of The Chosen, three alien heroes, and the resistance factions that oppose them. At the beginning of each campaign, the factions and Chosen are matched up randomly, and if you want to seize the weapons of a defeated Chosen or gain influence over the faction facing off against it, that’ll take you on a detour from the traditional path to victory.

“To create enemies with personalities feels counter to XCOM at first, but the way they operate is still very procedural. They have a schedule determining when they’ll appear in the game, but once they enter play, they’ll start appearing on missions, will teleport in, and they’ll have these map powers that change things before you even engage them. And then they get new traits and abilities as they go.

“It’s more organic than what we normally do in XCOM. When you fight them, you drive them off, and you can kill them but you don’t have to in order to beat the game. Whenever they win a fight they gain knowledge, and the more knowledge they gain, the more difficult they become from a strategic standpoint. As they gain that knowledge, their strategic prowess means you’re probably going to have to target them sooner, but to do that you’ll need to ally with the resistance faction that is facing off against them.”

chosen2.jpg


Persistent, recurring enemies aren’t unique to Shadow of Mordor (and its very exciting upcoming sequel) but there seem to be enough similarities here for me to justify putting dibs on the phrase Nemesis Unknown when I first saw the trailer for the expansion. I asked Solomon if the Nemesis system had been a direct influence.

“There’s a slight similarity, yeah. When I played Shadow of Mordor, all I was doing was hunting down orcs, making enemies then hunting them, getting into fights. After a few hours, I realised I wasn’t even going down any path to victory. I was just having fun playing with the systems.”

That might explain why The Chosen sit adjacent to the campaign, informing it rather than completely reshaping the end-game.

“The expansion runs through the entire campaign [rather than being end-game content], but people will play it different ways. It’s interesting because The Chosen get trickier to deal with throughout the campaign, but some of our systems don’t come online until later – because you have to win over the resistance to access some of their functions – so taking down the Chosen should be mid- to late-game. But taking them down doesn’t just remove them from the strategic layer, it also gives you their weapons, which are very powerful. So some players just go to take them down right away. They see that as an immediate, high profile objective. And that’s not how I envisaged it but it shows the flexibility of the system.”

12xcom2.jpg


It’s fair to say that the appearance of The Chosen surprised me. They’re far removed from the chunky sci-fi horror palette of XCOM, looking more like champions from an interstellar-fantasy battlefield. I asked about the intent of the character designs, and whether Solomon agreed with my view of them as more fantastical.

“We wanted to give them a look that wasn’t like the authoritarian military we’ve already done, or like the crazy aliens from the original. These needed to have distinct personalities, to be tall and imposing. They’re what the Ethereals would view as the perfect beings. And armour-wise, we did want it to be ornate because conceptually they should look like field commanders. We were drawn to medieval armour sets. The assassin has an Eastern flavour to her armour, but it’s hard not to make a guy with magic on his hands, like the Warlock, look like a fantasy character. It’s just going to happen.”

The rewriting of the tactical and strategic layers, and the introduction of new soldier types for each faction, each with their own strengths and weaknesses, would probably be enough to justify Solomon’s claim that this is a huge expansion – “it sometimes feels like marketing to say that, but I’m comfortable with it; I assure you, it’s true” – but there’s more. Instead of just adding a new area, in the form of abandoned pre-invasion cities, Firaxis have given those new areas a unique property in the form of The Lost. They’re the remnants of the cities’ populations, warped and either mindless or close to it.

“In the old cities you’ll always have the Lost. You know they’re out there and you know they’re coming. They’re drawn to the sound of explosions, which make them come really quickly, but they’re always going to come eventually, explosions or not. Once you break concealment, they’re on their way.”

chosen3.jpg


They bring a more conventional horror feel back to XCOM and throughout the brief conversation we had about them, I was reminded of my fear of Chrysalids in the original X-COM, back in the nineties.

“In cities, there’s lots of streets with limited line of sight, which makes it more frightening. Once the Lost arrive, in a swarm, you and the Advent are both worrying about them for a turn or two. You can get rid of them quite quickly, they’re not real dangerous in and of themselves, but they can overwhelm you if you’re not careful.”

The fact they can be baited, with explosions, and that they’ll attack Advent as well as XCOM, adds a new wrinkle to the game, and the encounters have an entirely new mechanic.

“They have a headshot mechanic. If you hit them and take them out, that shot is free, so you’re trying to take down lots at the same time, chaining kills together. When one of your soldier’s misses, that’s a real problem, because you just lost out on a whole chain of kills. So it becomes all about target selection, and that works the same for the Advent who are fending them off. It’s an ammunition game and almost like a puzzle of chaining together as many shots as possible. And you could have The Chosen present on those maps as well so there’s more potential for chaos. In some cases it gets back to the original original XCOM. That game had higher highs but lower lows, I think.”

chosen4.jpg


Covert actions will make the Lost even more of a horrifying threat.

“In a covert action you might have sent people into a city and they could get ambushed. So then you have two soldiers now trapped in an abandoned city, trying to escape, and that is when The Lost get scary because you cannot take them on. And Advent are hunting you as well.” A new flavour of terror mission in all but name.

There’s another kind of terror I feel I should mention though. Terror From The Deep. I’d thought it might be the XCOM 2 expansion as soon as I heard an announcement was due, particularly given the tease at the end of XCOM 2’s campaign, but I’m glad to have something completely new instead. As I put it to Solomon, if it’s going to happen at all, Terror From the Deep feels like “what happens next rather than what happens alongside the XCOM 2 campaign”.

“That’s exactly right. I remember talking to our narrative guys and I was saying “let’s have it end on a little water tease”, which is why the final mission of XCOM 2 takes place where it does. And they were saying, “Do you not know what this implies?” And of course I do! That’s the whole point. But maybe that’s our one reference to that. Maybe.”

XCOM 2: War of the Chosen is out August 29th.
 
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Part of this comes from playing early builds of Civ II and I love the leaders. They make you feel that there are other entities playing this game and that have stakes in it

Gross. Civilization leaders are lame. Let's assume he meant Alpha Centauri.

Overall, his whole take on the geoscape's flaws makes me wonder if he just doesn't really get what the charm of the geoscape/battlefied combination in the original was. Switching between grand strategy and battlefield tactics was like chocolate and peanut butter. The XCOM2 geoscape doesn't lack "warmth"; it lacks any sense of strategic decision-making and base/organization building. You're just responding to random things that pop up on the map and clicking scan on the best one, like a skinnerbox boardgame. So instead of looking to Civilization (and similar games) for ways to deepen the strategy, they add the one feature that will not help.

Even the geoscape in 2012 was better. Sure it was boardgamey and had only one viable strategy (i.e. satellite rush), but one strategy is better than zero!

Hopefully the "warmth" thing is a marketing hook and the mechanics of Chosen operations are more interesting than this interview lets on. The interviewer didn't seem particularly interested in teasing out what "knowledge" means in terms of gameplay, so perhaps there are complexities we haven't heard about. Luckily the interviewer did make sure to include the fact that Jake Solomon thinks his banal take on the Terror from the Deep reference is "exactly right".

They’re what the Ethereals would view as the perfect beings. And armour-wise, we did want it to be ornate because conceptually they should look like field commanders. We were drawn to medieval armour sets. The assassin has an Eastern flavour to her armour, but it’s hard not to make a guy with magic on his hands, like the Warlock, look like a fantasy character. It’s just going to happen.”

Maybe don't do a guy with medieval armor and magic on his hands? Ethereals are perfectly good wielders of space magic already. In fact, I might like a mod that just replaces the Chosen with differentiated Ethereals.

“That’s exactly right. I remember talking to our narrative guys and I was saying “let’s have it end on a little water tease”, which is why the final mission of XCOM 2 takes place where it does. And they were saying, “Do you not know what this implies?” And of course I do! That’s the whole point. But maybe that’s our one reference to that. Maybe.”

In other words, let's make sure people think a specific product is in the pipeline on the off chance we decide to make it. All of the hype without any of the development or marketing costs!
 
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Switching between grand strategy and battlefield tactics was like chocolate and peanut butter
So, kinda disgusting and way too sweet? :P
Peanut butter cups man, peanut butter cups.

Are you European? I think there's a cross atlantic difference of opinion on what to eat peanut butter with. I once knew a Dutchman who thought peanut butter and jelly was disgusting. I told him to go back to speaking German and slapped him across the face.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I am European indeed. Tbh I was more joking than anything else. I...kinda like anything with chocolate and the combination with peanut butter reminds me of Snickers which is one of my favorites so... no real complaints there. It can be too much sometimes though :P
 

thesheeep

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is that a tranny in this video, or just a butt ugly chick?

Who cares?

More important question is what her thoughts are about the guy she's sitting next to and she cannot take her eyes off.
And... having just skipped the video without audio, I'd also ask what her role is, since she doesn't seem to say a single word. She just stares at the guy all the time, which is kinda hilarious :lol:
 

YES!

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is that a tranny in this video, or just a butt ugly chick?

Who cares?

More important question is what her thoughts are about the guy she's sitting next to and she cannot take her eyes off.
And... having just skipped the video without audio, I'd also ask what her role is, since she doesn't seem to say a single word. She just stares at the guy all the time, which is kinda hilarious :lol:


I'm as interested in watching freshmen talk about games as I am in watching them play them so didn't watch the video, but was the guy being interviewed and was he talking a lot? It is good manners to look at people talking.
 

YES!

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Overbloated with HP aliens and promoting timer shit, good old Firaxis. Because putting more pressure on player for the sake of putting pressure is SO FUN!

Pressure creates tension and tension and worry adds to the reward. Why would I want to play a game that is so challengless that I feel no pressure to perform well during combat? I'm just wasting my time if there is no constant pressure of losing. If winning is a foregone conclusion there is no pressure and it really isn't winning.

Gambling with big money is exciting because of the pressure. Big risk = pressure. Big reward equals the reason to subject yourself to the pressure.
 

thesheeep

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Overbloated with HP aliens and promoting timer shit, good old Firaxis. Because putting more pressure on player for the sake of putting pressure is SO FUN!

Pressure creates tension and tension and worry adds to the reward. Why would I want to play a game that is so challengless that I feel no pressure to perform well during combat? I'm just wasting my time if there is no constant pressure of losing. If winning is a foregone conclusion there is no pressure and it really isn't winning.

Gambling with big money is exciting because of the pressure. Big risk = pressure. Big reward equals the reason to subject yourself to the pressure.
Thing is, you don't need timers for pressure.
None of the old games had that, and the risk and pressure was still there. IMO, the pressure to need to advance on the strategy layer is more than enough. You can't really play it safe there and need to take riskier missions (that are risky without timers). Hell, BB doesn't have timers and I'd say there's quite a bit of pressure going on anyway.
Having timers every now and then isn't bad as it is a mechanic that spices things up when used sometimes. But in XCom 2, I cannot even remember missions without one. It's just the same, always. And always the same just becomes annoying as hell.
 

CthuluIsSpy

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Overbloated with HP aliens and promoting timer shit, good old Firaxis. Because putting more pressure on player for the sake of putting pressure is SO FUN!

Pressure creates tension and tension and worry adds to the reward. Why would I want to play a game that is so challengless that I feel no pressure to perform well during combat? I'm just wasting my time if there is no constant pressure of losing. If winning is a foregone conclusion there is no pressure and it really isn't winning.

Gambling with big money is exciting because of the pressure. Big risk = pressure. Big reward equals the reason to subject yourself to the pressure.
Thing is, you don't need timers for pressure.
None of the old games had that, and the risk and pressure was still there. IMO, the pressure to need to advance on the strategy layer is more than enough. You can't really play it safe there and need to take riskier missions (that are risky without timers). Hell, BB doesn't have timers and I'd say there's quite a bit of pressure going on anyway.
Having timers every now and then isn't bad as it is a mechanic that spices things up when used sometimes. But in XCom 2, I cannot even remember missions without one. It's just the same, always. And always the same just becomes annoying as hell.

Convoy raids, sabotage missions and story missions don't have them.
Every other mission does though. Technically retaliation missions, ship defense and device protection missions don't have timers either, but there's still a hidden time limit where if you don't act fast enough the game either fucks you over or fails the mission.
 
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