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Yet Another Morrowind Thread

wwsd

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
6,736
Having replayed this content recently, I can see why they might want to change it after the Imperial settlements on the Telvannis map. Port Telvannis is pretty dumb now. Getting from the ground to the walkway is best navigated by levitating, which is not so strange for a Telvanni city, but the thing itself is pointless. Some other towns in TR have interesting vertical constructions against a cliff face and such, maybe they should make PT more interesting vertically? Or expand the port so it contains more than just a few river striders and slaves.

Also some of the quest lines are OK to good, but a lot of it is not really fleshed out. Most of the Telvanni councilors are just analogues for the Vvardenfell ones, but with very little unique dialogue for all but one. It kind of stands to reason since the mainland Telvanni are supposed to be even more isolationist. But as I mentioned, unless you turn it off, you still need their support to be appointed Hortator for the vanilla main quest... I can imagine the original team just wanted to release the map and figure out the content later.
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
Having replayed this content recently, I can see why they might want to change it after the Imperial settlements on the Telvannis map. Port Telvannis is pretty dumb now. Getting from the ground to the walkway is best navigated by levitating, which is not so strange for a Telvanni city, but the thing itself is pointless. Some other towns in TR have interesting vertical constructions against a cliff face and such, maybe they should make PT more interesting vertically? Or expand the port so it contains more than just a few river striders and slaves
Like I said, I think the answer is to reduce the footprint but basically keep the same amount of interior cells. Have the ground level be more cramped with a sprawling skywalk up above, which CAN be navigated on foot but is understandably much easier to get around with levitation. Don't force the player to levitate in anything that isn't a Sadrith tower, or doesn't have a character-based explanation. Marog has a spellsword who wants to be left alone, so his house is built into a cliffside without a walkway attached. Stuff like this is fine, but it seems like there's a sort of flanderization of the Telvanni which often occurs within the TES community, where people like to pretend that they're unreachable without Levitation when the reality is that it's only needed to actual reach the House Masters in the upper sections of towers.

Also some of the quest lines are OK to good, but a lot of it is not really fleshed out. Most of the Telvanni councilors are just analogues for the Vvardenfell ones, but with very little unique dialogue for all but one. It kind of stands to reason since the mainland Telvanni are supposed to be even more isolationist. But as I mentioned, unless you turn it off, you still need their support to be appointed Hortator for the vanilla main quest... I can imagine the original team just wanted to release the map and figure out the content later.
None of the quest content is bad per se, it's just a matter of it having been left behind by more modern TR content. Like you said, some of it is also clearly unfinished or just not fully realised, too. The chores for the Mouths are all pretty bland or allude to political machinations which the player has no ability to influence, and there are also balance concerns like the quest for Archmagister Dral where you're basically given an enchanted Daedric dagger just for showing up and speaking with him. The Ranyon-Rhun questline is nice because it gives you an opportunity to do some Telvanni content that is more focused on mundane problems than on accruing personal/magical power (which basically defines vanilla Telvanni), but I'm pretty sure that it can actually be completed by non-Telvanni characters. Mithras is clearly supposed to be a sort of mainland counterpart to Aryon, but having Mithras as your "patron" only makes sense if the TR content is segregated from the vanilla content, which it hasn't been for some time. At this stage, I'd say anyone looking for extra Telvanni content is actually just better off playing some of the additional content included in OAAB than bothering at all with the mainland Telvanni stuff.

As for other Telvannis content, some of it has already been dummied out in recent builds, like the Killing the Messenger quest(line) which gave you two options for completion, either in favour of the Telvanni or the Mages Guild. The last time I played through it, I quite liked the Gah Sadrith Inquisition stuff and how it tied together three different quests in a fairly complex way. However that has its own problems of kicking off a chain of events which might seem fairly innocent, but then ends up involving you having to fight Level 30+ characters and trawling through a large Daedric shrine with an enormous amount of amazing loot. Kemel-Ze is still unfinished and is emblematic of early TR design. It seems like it was made big purely for the sake of being big. Something like 30 interior cells, many of which are pointless, bland hallways or both, and since it's unfinished, trudging through it doesn't even net you a proper reward, although one is available with no-clip.

Like the Helnim content which is largely being transplanted to Firewatch, I think plenty can be done with a lot of these old quests. They just need to be given proper resolutions or be tidied up a bit. I don't think mainland Telvanni needs a sort of "main" quest as it currently does, and it certainly doesn't need that quest to be handed out to the player by an Aryon clone. Just give the player some things to do that aren't basic chores for Mouths (vanilla already has enough) and some House intrigue to get involved with which acts as a bonus to the vanilla content, especially since most people agree that Telvanni is the most enjoyable of the vanilla factions.

Edit: Speaking of Telvanni content you needn't bother with, I really want to proclaim that Uvirith's Legacy is LARPer shit. It seems nice until you realise that the mod's benefits don't present themselves until the player has become Magister of the House, at which point you should really only be playing for a few more hours anyway. People who play for hours and hours after completing the main objective of a playthrough are mentally ill.
 
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unseeingeye

Cleric/Mage
Patron
Joined
Jul 13, 2021
Messages
314
Strap Yourselves In
Edit: Speaking of Telvanni content you needn't bother with, I really want to proclaim that Uvirith's Legacy is LARPer shit. It seems nice until you realise that the mod's benefits don't present themselves until the player has become Magister of the House, at which point you should really only be playing for a few more hours anyway. People who play for hours and hours after completing the main objective of a playthrough are mentally ill.
Finally! My God I can never understand why this mod is regarded so highly other than the sheer volume of content. I like the lore and cultural depictions of each of the three Great Houses nearly equally but so many people seem to exaggerate their general characteristics to where thousand year old wizards become caricatures of New Age chaos "magicians", or Chaotes if you're familiar. Then there is that mod which is just on another level of obscene.
 

Funposter

Magister
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
1,678
Location
Australia
Finally! My God I can never understand why this mod is regarded so highly other than the sheer volume of content.
Honestly the best thing about it is the Teleport pads which let you bounce from tower to tower, and even then they're only really necessary because TR messes up the travel routes and makes sea voyages around Azura's Coast require a few more clicks than it should. Stronghold overhauls are always nice in theory, but practically the strongholds really just exist as a place for you to dump all of the equipment that you don't need but are reluctant to sell such as artifacts, or gear which is only situationally useful and doesn't warrant being in your inventory at all times. This applies doubly for wizard characters, since you'll likely have much lower encumbrance. Uvirith's Legacy and its ilk are very much the prototype for what constitutes the bulk of Skyrim modding nowadays - homes and abodes, unique or beautiful follower characters, with very little in the way of content that either adds new things to do or substantially overhauls/improves vanilla content and mechanics. It's very masturbatory.
 

wwsd

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
6,736
UL and related mods are fun the first time, just because of how absurdly magnificent your settlement becomes. :lol: At first the characters are pretty down-to-earth and there is some day-to-day management of resources involved, but later it adds completely crazy shit. I installed it in my latest playthrough again but haven't progressed with it yet, since I'm doing the TR content. But I remember a piano among other things, not to mention the dungeon with a vast torture chamber...

Like I said, I think the answer is to reduce the footprint but basically keep the same amount of interior cells. Have the ground level be more cramped with a sprawling skywalk up above, which CAN be navigated on foot but is understandably much easier to get around with levitation. Don't force the player to levitate in anything that isn't a Sadrith tower, or doesn't have a character-based explanation.

Yeah, I agree with this sentiment. Although in Port Telvannis you don't have to levitate to get up on the skyway, there are some small "on-ramps" that are annoying having to look for. But I hope this will be made more interesting as you say.

The last time I played through it, I quite liked the Gah Sadrith Inquisition stuff and how it tied together three different quests in a fairly complex way. However that has its own problems of kicking off a chain of events which might seem fairly innocent, but then ends up involving you having to fight Level 30+ characters and trawling through a large Daedric shrine with an enormous amount of amazing loot.

I did this recently and liked it too. Although I lost sight of my allies during the final confrontation, what with all the deep chasms that the AI can fall into. :lol: So I don't know if they have anything interesting to say after you've won, or any rewards. But the quest can be finished without speaking to them. The loot from this quest line is very powerful, but not really a problem since it's not really possible to win unless you already have an endgame character.
 

Bark0z

Barely Literate
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
3
I have been trying to figure out the stacking of weaknesses, but I am not getting the consistent behavior I had hoped.

Specifically, when spamming my enchanted ring that has weakness to fire 100% 1 sec DoT touch, followed by 10 fire damage touch, I am leaving Caius with 1 hp with 7 hits ( 200 hp / 7 = 30 dmg, so not the 20 dmg which would imply no stacking, but also not some crazy compounding either, just 300%)

I did some tests trying to cast an 100 point reflect on a golden saint, and then spamming the above nuke to see if I could see any stacking in my debuff tooltips above my spell selection menu, but I didnt find it stacking anything (I did indeed see the weakness fire being reflected onto me but it was only one instance of 100%)

If I try to make it on target instead of touch, Caius needs 10 hits to get to 1 hp (20 dmg per hit implies no stacking of weaknesses) so no compounding in this case.

I haven't fooled around with weakness to magicka + fire weakness + fire dmg to see if it has any sort of stacking (other than the expected weakness to magicka simply doubling the effectiveness of fire weakness) since its more cost efficient to maximize the magnitude of the fewer skills anyway.

https://archive.wakarimasen.moe/vrpg/thread/2119372/#2126706 so thus I was unable to replicate what this guy talks about.

Anyone here know exactly whats the case with the stacking behavior of debuffs?
 

Bark0z

Barely Literate
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
3
unknown.png


Okay so I more or less figured out how the stacking works, and its really all about the weakness to magicka allowing the compounding and creating some crazy stuff.. havent tried for target yet, but touch definitely works

Was able to confirm these through the console readings from ToggleMagicStats command

This could be considered unrealistic since I have toggled the patch that raises the max magnitudes to 500, more for demonstration purposes.

Vivec dies in that 3rd hit but thats when the debuffs start to expire too, so I dont know if you could activate more instances
 
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Hag

Savant
Patron
Joined
Nov 25, 2020
Messages
782
Location
Breizh
Codex Year of the Donut
So, if I get it, using two modest 50pts spells with the same 5pts damage, first hit multiplier is :
0.5 + 0.25 + 1 = 1.75
and second hit :
0.5 * (1 + 0.5) = 0.75 + 1.75 * (1 + 0.5) = 3.375 + 1 = 4.875

You need to use five spells to deal less than five time the initial damage : stupid.

For 100 weakness spells :
1st : 1 + 1 + 1 = 3
2nd : 1 * (1+1) = 2 + 2 * (1+1) = 6 + 1 = 9

Now damage output is almost double. That would mean weakness spells are more useful for high-level characters. Interesting.
 

deuxhero

Arcane
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Messages
10,393
Location
Flowery Land
IDtenT
No, it actually has been worked on for two decades. Morrowind's 20th anniversary is in May, but the announcement of the construction set and non-inclusion of the mainland combined to result in people organizing to build the mainland before it even came out.
 
Joined
Oct 24, 2021
Messages
956
Are there any mods that change the way the music is implemented in Morrowind? So it doesn't just randomly play tracks and switch between exploration/combat?
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,359
Are there any mods that change the way the music is implemented in Morrowind? So it doesn't just randomly play tracks and switch between exploration/combat?

Yes.

There's MUSE 2. But it requires music. The one I recommend in my guide is TUBES4MUSE, which uses music made by Jeremy Soule for TES (as well as a couple other games).
 

xuerebx

Augur
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
817
So I was on a river cruise (Vistula River) in Poland on Christmas day and the background music on the boat was eerily familiar. I used Shazam and lo and behold - it was "Peaceful Waters" by Jeremy Soule. As I exited the boat I asked the captain if he selected the music himself, and once he confirmed I mentioned Morrowind. Apparently it's his favourite game :D. The whole thing was unexpected, but I actually met the first person IRL who plays/ed Morrowind.

Off-topic, but anyway.
 

Talby

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 15, 2008
Messages
5,306
Codex USB, 2014
So I was on a river cruise (Vistula River) in Poland on Christmas day and the background music on the boat was eerily familiar. I used Shazam and lo and behold - it was "Peaceful Waters" by Jeremy Soule. As I exited the boat I asked the captain if he selected the music himself, and once he confirmed I mentioned Morrowind. Apparently it's his favourite game :D. The whole thing was unexpected, but I actually met the first person IRL who plays/ed Morrowind.

Off-topic, but anyway.

This, is where you get off. Come with me.
 

xuerebx

Augur
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
817
Holy shit I missed that, awesome!! :D
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,359
Today I decided to start working on a Wabbajack port of my Morrowind Sharp modding guide.
I've got to say it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be. At least it seems to be going well at the moment. I'm now installing it to try it out. Some things will still need to be installed manually, but we are talking about 10 files as opposed to 200.

Those 10 files would consist of the basic setup (Code Patch, Graphics Extender) and tools required to handle mods. Everything else would be handled by an installer.
 

Sigourn

uooh afficionado
Joined
Feb 6, 2016
Messages
5,359
The Morrowind Sharp Wabbajack has been released.

Please make sure to follow all the instructions in this page from beginning to end.
Can the mods that change character progression / levelling be safely skipped?

Once you install the guide using Wabbajack, you can run Morrowind like you could before through Mod Organizer 2. And in MO2, you can disable whatever mods you don't want to use.

At the moment I'm working on a miniupdate which will hopefully allow the users to skip the steps of downloading Wrye Mash and tes3cmd.exe. Thus the only things that would be left to the user are the configuration of the tools and nothing else.
 

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