Dragon Age will change the way BioWare writes party members!

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Maybe Volourn IS a Bioware character made by Gaider to entertain us?

 

[Imbecile]

Bioware have realised that people feel most comfortable when they can pigeonhole individuals.

I always wondered why otherwise sane, rational people can believe in horoscopes, or Chinese calenders, or any of that shite. So there are 12 kinds of people.

Bioware have clearly capitalised on this. If people like to believe there are on 12 kinds of people, wouldn't it betwice as good if there were only 6 kinds of people. This is also handy if you cant count higher than the number of fingers you have.

 

[BethesdaLove]

Lara Croft is a strong female character.

 

[Wyrmlord]

(I say good not great 'cause nearly have PST npcs ar euseless crpa while the bother half are amongst the best ever).

With all due respect, the amount of typos in your post really baffle the reader and it really takes twice as long as it should to understand what you are saying.

It's almost like you have the same fractured mind as Ravel when TNO meets her in the Barbed Maze.

Wouldn't it be better to come to the Codex after you have had your sleep? Or maybe take it easy and take your time in writing your posts?

Seriously, using bother instead of other? WTF? :shock:

 

[Applegate's Breasts]

 

[aleph]

With all due respect, the amount of typos in your post really baffle the reader and it really takes twice as long as it should to understand what you are saying.

not that you would miss something important by not understanding volourn's posts anyway. It is just his usual bullshit how Bioware is the greatest developer ever and the NWN OC is a the best thing ever (that is what volourn actually believes). For your sanity's sake, better not try to understand him. In this case ignorance is bliss.

 

[Applegate's Breasts]

Volourn is trying to mold your patterns of thought and neural synapses. If you can understand his posts, it's already too late.

 

[Antagonist]

It is just his usual bullshit how Bioware is the greatest developer ever and the NWN OC is a the best thing ever (that is what volourn actually believes).

Actually, if my memory doesn't fail me Volourn doesn't praise NWN for being the best game of all times due to its stellar OC but because of the modding community it spawned.

 

[Mantiis]

Apologies I am about to talk about a jRPG:

I was plesently suprised playing "The Last Remnant" as it has a character Emma Honeywell who (apart from having an unfortunate surname) is in her 40s, is an adept swordswoman and dislikes the main character although she does take a bit of a motherly role later on.

Spoiler

I was devastated when she was killed off and replaced with someone half her age. Women in Refrigerators I guess.

 

[wageslave]

i don't know if there's an rpg character that beats aeris. pst comes close but still

 

[Volourn]

"Actually, if my memory doesn't fail me Volourn doesn't praise NWN for being the best game of all times due to its stellar OC but because of the modding community it spawned."

Facts don't matter when trolling so shut up.

 

[Annie Mitsoda]

Don't get me wrong. I hated the FUCK out of Sansa for a while. She isn't my favorite, but the thing is - compare her with Cersei. She could have become THAT. It's not so much that I think she's badass (ARYA is badass. Daenerys is pretty awesome. And Catelyn and Brienne are also rad) - it's that she's written... REAL. And that was the point of this discussion, yes? Realism?

If you took Sansa written by another author, she'd have either been killed ignominiously, gotten vicious and evil as Joffrey, or become a sparkling sweet soul of total goodness. She's NOT that, not by any stretch. She's a hostage in an overall shitty situation, and she's ABLE to survive, and even find sympathy for vicious creatures like the Hound, and manage to trick Joffrey into sparing that one knight who got turned into a fool (his name escapes me, plz to forgive). She's FOURTEEN. She's not the most beautiful of the most hotness, she's not a super badass dragonqueen, she's a hostage trying to find her way out of situations and manage to survive in circumstances that would have rewarded a wrong move with death. She's not great at it, but she's attempting to find her way around. I think she's compelling to read about BECAUSE she's not perfect, because she's not badass who wins, and because even if she dies the story goes on (not like Martin's let that hold him back before, BUT I guess - with less at risk with Sansa's presence, her own role within the series is more uncertain).

It's because of her fallibility - and the more she learns about the world, and the further she moves from the naive and self-important little brat she used to be - that I find her compelling.

 

[hiver]

Don't get me wrong. I hated the FUCK out of Sansa for a while. She isn't my favorite, but the thing is - compare her with Cersei. She could have become THAT. It's not so much that I think she's badass (ARYA is badass. Daenerys is pretty awesome. And Catelyn and Brienne are also rad) - it's that she's written... REAL. And that was the point of this discussion, yes? Realism?

I think thats the quality all of Ice and Fire characters have.

They all make mistakes because they are human - not characters with ability X and opinion Z.
Well... except Joffrey. He was a representative of something much less.

But you are wrong on some things. Arya is not badass. Not by a long stretch. She is just a little mouse, dont you remember?
Very, very frail and little.
God i loved those chapters with her in Harenhall, serving Mountain and lord Tywin and Vargo and then Roose Bolton of all people.

If you took Sansa written by another author, she'd have either been killed ignominiously, gotten vicious and evil as Joffrey, or become a sparkling sweet soul of total goodness. She's NOT that, not by any stretch. She's a hostage in an overall shitty situation, and she's ABLE to survive, and even find sympathy for vicious creatures like the Hound, and manage to trick Joffrey into sparing that one knight who got turned into a fool (his name escapes me, plz to forgive). She's FOURTEEN. She's not the most beautiful of the most hotness, she's not a super badass dragonqueen, she's a hostage trying to find her way out of situations and manage to survive in circumstances that would have rewarded a wrong move with death. She's not great at it, but she's attempting to find her way around. I think she's compelling to read about BECAUSE she's not perfect, because she's not badass who wins, and because even if she dies the story goes on (not like Martin's let that hold him back before, BUT I guess - with less at risk with Sansa's presence, her own role within the series is more uncertain).

It's because of her fallibility - and the more she learns about the world, and the further she moves from the naive and self-important little brat she used to be - that I find her compelling.

Does she move or others carry her all the way? I havent seen her do something on her own yet, except that case of saving an old drunkard Ser Dontos from Joffrey and giving sympathy and some kind of understanding to the Hound.

I think part of the attraction of Sansa is that Martin really torments his readers with her while she blindly stumbles on, destroying (or helping to destroy) her family - without ever realizing what the hell is she doing.
It gets to be almost unbearable in some situations.

Her chapters have that masochistic quality to them.
And i guess most readers yearn for some resolution to her story ... her growth, just because they had to suffer so much of her blindness for so long.

And now that i think about it.... she is interesting because she is the opposite of all other strong female characters.
She could never become good with a sword like Arya will, someday, or weave conspiracies and seduce like Cersei or take command like Catelyn could, not to mention wild and awesome Asha or Mother of Dragons.

Her role is one of a frail girl that gets striped of all her dreams and silly illusions through those long horrible chapters, then gets broken and broken again till almost nothing is left but Alayne.
Just an ordinary girl. Not so naive or foolish anymore but nothing better then that. And even that transformation was caused more by events hammering away what she used to be rather then through her own effort.
Is that some kind of intermediary transformation toward something else remains to be seen.
Outguessing Martin proved to be very hard if not impossible, so far.

Im afraid even Sansa is leagues infront even the MOTB characters though. :wink:

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Speaking of realistic female characters, anyone read Alan Moore's From Hell?

 

[Emotional Vampire]

I'm not going to read five pags of your bullshit so...

Dear Lestat:

You're a dumbfuck

Sincerely,

Internet.

 

[Hümmelgümpf]

I'm not going to read five pags of your bullshit so...

Dear Lestat:

You're a dumbfuck

Sincerely,

Internet.

no u

 

[poocolator]

Who's going to win this epic intarnetz war? I sit here in quiet suspense.

 

[Vaarna_Aarne]

Lestat won before it started.

The readers win if Emotional Vampire gets emotional and posts again.

 

[bat_boro]

Sansa is like the sister I never had!

 

[Avu]

Catelyn sure had a huge dose of bad luck. You say stupid I say freaking unlucky. She trusts Littlefinger and imprisons Tyrion. Why wouldn't she trust Littlefinger? He's supposed to be her childhood buddy best of pals and all and Tyrion has a reputation for being vicious (and he is just not malicious) and he is a dwarf. She takes him to her sisters another person she should be able to trust implicitly but she too turns out to be batshit crazy and let's Tyrion run away against Catelyns pleas. I've yet to see something trully stupid done by her except the Jayme thing (and that will have turned ok if only). Ned was infinetly more stupid by letting Cersey know he was on to her.

And yes Daenerys got it easy (for Martin). Yeah she suffers but so do many others but when she gets suicidal and wants to burn with her dead mongol she only gets a bald head out of it and oh yeah 3 dragons. She gets to Quarth where everyone wants the dragons yet everyone is so honorable that they would not just take them away from this beggar with a few hungry old and cryplled mongols oh and she gets 3 ships. And later when she fake trades the dragon for the entire slave army were those slavers completetly idiotic? They could have had all 3 dragons and all the slaves as well. That might have ruined their reputation as traders but 3 whole dragons for sale should have mended that in a pinch. After that it's smooth sailing so to speak just until the end when there's that dragon eats kid deal that is to be continued.

Brienne is what Sansa would have been if she was ugly and had a quarter of a brain. She still has foolish notions of honor chivalry true love and all that (she is after all the only true knight in the realm) but she has also experienced the cruelty of men and has learned not to trust so easily. Sansa seems to never learn she just blocks everything and lives in her own made up world.

 

[hiver]

If that was it i wouldnt like these books so much as i do.
- Wrong on every account.

 

[Avu]

One would argue that the relative nature of truth depicted in the books and the multiple points of view make it such a compelling and easily identifying read for so many but since you clearly hold the absolute truth one needs not bother.

 

[poocolator]

Isn't there another famous member on RPGCodex who posts fluff? Or are they a crossover member from some other forum?

 

[hiver]

One would argue that the relative nature of truth depicted in the books and the multiple points of view make it such a compelling and easily identifying read for so many but since you clearly hold the absolute truth one needs not bother.

It isnt about holding absolute truth you m..... its about understanding what you read past that jerry springer PoV of yours.

I think it will go down much better for you once it has been televised.

 

[Jaime Lannister]

As someone who's read the books through three times and even took one of the character's names, I feel the need to comment.

All of the characters in ASOIAF are terrible people and become less and less likable as the reader gets to know them better. And Jon Snow is a Marty Stu, not Dany, who killed her unborn son, massacred cities, and has an ever-growing god complex. At least the self-insertion character (Tyrion) isn't a Marty Stu, as that would be even more cringeworthy than Jon's chapters. Seriously, he deserts and then, instead of execution, is made lord commander? WTF he should have been killed off.

Also Martin has killed off a total of two POV characters so he doesn't really deserve the reputation of anyone can die. Turtledove killed off a POV and added a POV every book in his alternate civil war timeline, and wrote 10 books in as many years. Meanwhile, Martin adds about 4 POVs for every one killed off, and will probably never finish.