First Arcanum playthrough... disappointed :shrug:

[sgc_meltdown]

http://gamebanshee.com/news/97919-rpg-c ... ecade.html

The staff members over at RPG Codex have built upon their previous "RPG of the Decade" article by recognizing what they consider to be the five most notable role-playing games of the past ten years. Starting with #5 and moving up, we have Diablo II, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, Gothic II (with Night of the Raven installed), Baldur's Gate II, and, finally, Arcanum.

 

[Excidium]

Diablo II.

 

[Daemongar]

Look, if you could finish FO2, you can finish Arcanum so quit your bitching. FO2 dragged quite a bit in the middle, with the "Kung Fu" fighting and other stuff. I played Arcanum and I can remember it was a nice respite compared to the RPG peers that were coming out in 2001. It allowed for real time and turn based combat, it had an excellent character generation system. It supported 800x600. The environment was unexplored territory, and was at least original.

Arcanum was not perfect, and the Dwarf dungeon with the golems was indeed a nightmare. The rest of it was pretty damn good: the journal, the point system, the npcs, the way npcs were treated, you could fuck a sheep, the skill system, etc.

Yes, it's easy to piss on Arcanum compared to FO1 & 2, hey, they are the best in class. Is it a flawed, but real true to life rpg in an interesting setting? Yes. Does it allow multiple playthroughs based on character race, class, alignment? Yes. Also, Arcanum is the rare rpg I've played where INT makes a difference in conversation options. It's the same in FO1, but INT is pretty overpowered in all FO's. In Arcanum, to get certain dialog trees you have to have the right INT.

How could anyone hate on this?

 

[crazy_dave]

How could anyone hate on this?

Apparently, faggots.

 

[oscar]

Didn't Raven bang you, like, literally just before entering the final portal? I found that hilarious at the time.

My character slept with her ages before the portal. Though I had very high charisma.

The character creation system is brilliant and intuitive.

The whole game oozes charm and atmosphere. The 'antique' look of the interference, the haunting violin soundtrack and my favourite voice-acting ever in a game (none of that "we cheap-ed out and used our own nerdy-sounding programmers").

Probably the reason the voice-acting quality was so high was because they made the correct decision of only voicing important NPC's, what meant was that they could focus on getting them right and giving them plenty of dialogue. I'd prefer a few unforgettable voices (Virgil and Geoffrey Tarrellond-Ashe's will stay with me for a long time) then a fully-voiced game where everyone sounds boring or shit.

I also liked the slowness of the plot (and once it starts picking up speed it gets unexpectedly good).

But yes, combat forces you to pick between a spastic version of Diablo or an extremely unbalanced turn-based.

I also felt alot of the NPC's weren't talkative enough. Bioware tends to go to far down the opposite end of the scale, with the NPC's expecting you to be their psychiatrist constantly mothering them but here a few more comments and arguments between party members would have been nice.

Yes this game can be very rough and combat can be tedious (though no worse for me then the sewers in Planescape: Torment and definitely better than the sewers in Vampire: The Masquerade. But there's something about this game that is simply beautiful and as my first ever RPG it appeals to me more than anything else I've ever played.

 

[empi]

Arcanum is the most over-rated game on the codex. How you could place this in your top RPGs amazes me in all honesty.

 

[Daemongar]

Yes this game can be very rough and combat can be tedious (though no worse for me then the sewers in Planescape: Torment and definitely better than the sewers in Vampire: The Masquerade. But there's something about this game that is simply beautiful and as my first ever RPG it appeals to me more than anything else I've ever played.

Well said :clap:

 

[Monocause]

I happen to love all the Troika games for the same reason that I like (notice the lower grade) Obsidian. Both these companies share a certain kind of flair that seems to come up only when there's a reasonable amount of love put into the game. They've got the charm and the small details which make it obvious that you're playing a nerd's wet dream come somewhat true and not a commercial product based on focus groups.

It obviously doesn't mean that I found all of the games these two produced to be exceptional. All of Obsidian's stuff was decent and fun for one or two playthroughs (with the notable exception of MoTB and FO:NV) but then I drop them and don't really feel the need to come back.

It's different with Troika. I've replayed VTMB and TOEE furiously over the past few years. The astounding charm and atmosphere of the first one and excellent combat in the other really cover up for all of their flaws. I admire Troika for the design paradigm which states that the aim is to create a quality game, not a quality product. It's obviously riskier and less profitable but it's a way to generate cult following and influence the design of future games made by like-minded individuals or companies. Current Bioware fans probably won't remember Mass Effect a couple of years after the franchise dies since the game's success (which is based on rather low-key emotional tunes and production values) are easy to replicate by The Next Best Thing - Troika games are still remembered even though the whole company died and made a honorable mention in the annals of computer gaming history.

A somewhat flawed but serviceable comparison is comparing the proper musicians/groups to pop stars. The first ones produce music that often don't generate as much money but are works of art that stay influential for years. The second ones release quality products that is marketed to generate income - and that's it. Wait 'til starlets like Beyonce end their careers and she'll quickly fade into obscurity.

And Arcanum - well, that's one Troika game that I simply can't bother to finish. I've started it a gazillion of times and see a shitload of good stuff in there - it just stops being fun at some point (almost always around the time I'm to enter Qintarra) and starts being tedious due to the poorly designed combat and some other flaws mentioned earlier in the thread like the big and empty world. I never tried to use one of these OP builds that make combat a breeze, maybe that's where I erred; on the other hand, I'm afraid that skipping past combat might render a big part of character development moot and turn the game into a text-based adventure game with some battle cutscenes.

And no, this isn't decline of the Codex. I've shared my experiences with Arcanum before a few times already. Most of the older posters probably didn't bother to reply to this thread on the assumption that it's a trollfest or because it's been discussed to death already. It happens quite often - a newfag comes and criticises a loved oldie or starts discussing something else that had a billion of threads about it already, barely anyone aside of the other newfags can be arsed to reply and one of the resident endorphin-deficient posters inevitably leaps to the chance to call the Codex a swarm of cocksucking shiteating flip-floppers without a motherfucking angle.

 

[ChristofferC]

I never even entered the sewers in PS:T

 

[Satori (original)]

And Arcanum - well, that's one Troika game that I simply can't bother to finish. I've started it a gazillion of times and see a shitload of good stuff in there - it just stops being fun at some point (almost always around the time I'm to enter Qintarra)

Oh you simply must, I quit around three times, generally after the time Aronax appears to you, knocks you out and gives you a warning to back off. It's worth continuing if only to meet one of the best 'villains' in gaming. Just roll a mage and take harm, teleport and disintegrate to speed the process along.

Also I've never understood everybody's gripe with the golems; sure the first time you encounter them you didn't expect your weapons to turn to scrap but that's why you always pack a lesser backup weapon or two; it's standard practice in all games for crying out loud.

 

[Excidium]

Most of the older posters probably didn't bother to reply to this thread on the assumption that it's a trollfest or because it's been discussed to death already. It happens quite often - a newfag comes and criticises a loved oldie or starts discussing something else that had a billion of threads about it already, barely anyone aside of the other newfags can be arsed to reply and one of the resident endorphin-deficient posters inevitably leaps to the chance to call the Codex a swarm of cocksucking shiteating flip-floppers without a motherfucking angle.

The history of these forums.

 

[RK47]

Also I've never understood everybody's gripe with the golems; sure the first time you encounter them you didn't expect your weapons to turn to scrap but that's why you always pack a lesser backup weapon or two; it's standard practice in all games for crying out loud.

But good RPG design should let the player tackle every challenges regardless of their levels, equipment and amount of preparation, am I right?

 

[LibertyRansom]

There's a problem when a game that used to be praised and lavished six, seven, eight years ago is now considered bad.

And it's not a problem with the game. You. You are the problem.

 

[Daemongar]

Also I've never understood everybody's gripe with the golems; sure the first time you encounter them you didn't expect your weapons to turn to scrap but that's why you always pack a lesser backup weapon or two; it's standard practice in all games for crying out loud.

From my own perspective, first I got there and really wasn't built for the dungeon and second weapon wear wasn't a concern until this dungeon. It was kind of a severe lesson, I didn't notice that my weapon was destroyed until was beating on creatures with my fists. It was kind of the worst of worlds: you weapon is gone and your attacks are causing you damage, and you had to backtrack out, with an npc that would probably die.

 

[RK47]

No. not really. if you hit F5 , they'll back off. Then F3 to tell them to stay close. Enter Real Time mode, retreat.

 

[Daemongar]

No. not really. if you hit F5 , they'll back off. Then F3 to tell them to stay close. Enter Real Time mode, retreat.

I must have read that in the manual, as I remembered the shortcut keys to called shots, but I usually played this game pretty direct: not a lot of tactical combat control. Thanks for the tip.

 

[crazy_dave]

And no, this isn't decline of the Codex. I've shared my experiences with Arcanum before a few times already. Most of the older posters probably didn't bother to reply to this thread on the assumption that it's a trollfest or because it's been discussed to death already. It happens quite often - a newfag comes and criticises a loved oldie or starts discussing something else that had a billion of threads about it already, barely anyone aside of the other newfags can be arsed to reply and one of the resident endorphin-deficient posters inevitably leaps to the chance to call the Codex a swarm of cocksucking shiteating flip-floppers without a motherfucking angle.

Hey, asshole, I'm not endorphin-deficient. I'm crazy. Can't you read?

 

[Esquilax]

Oh you simply must, I quit around three times, generally after the time Aronax appears to you, knocks you out and gives you a warning to back off. It's worth continuing if only to meet one of the best 'villains' in gaming. Just roll a mage and take harm, teleport and disintegrate to speed the process along.

Also I've never understood everybody's gripe with the golems; sure the first time you encounter them you didn't expect your weapons to turn to scrap but that's why you always pack a lesser backup weapon or two; it's standard practice in all games for crying out loud.

If it's so great, then why did you quit those three times prior to finally completing it? If you have to will yourself to finish the game, then you're probably not having a good time with it. Monocause made some great points - it's undeniable that a lot of love went into Troika's games (and I too, loved Vtm:B), but there are many occasions where Arcanum simply isn't fun to play. You can talk all you want about the passion that went into that game, but at the end of the day if it isn't fun, well, then that doesn't do much for me. I guess that makes me a pleb, but if a game doesn't entertain me, then I have no desire to play it.

I really loved the ideas Arcanum had, and I was really excited about making a tech character since you're almost always stuck with a mage in 99% of RPG's, so I was eager to make a character much different than I experienced in other games. Your advice on rolling a mage is all well and good, but the reason that I was interested in Arcanum to begin with is because I didn't want to roll yet another boring-ass mage - I wanted to be a mad inventor with bizarre death rays and awesome gadgets. While the crafting system was definitely robust, the comparative weakness of technologists made those dungeon slogs even more irritating.

I think that the frustration from the golems comes from the fact that they can be very annoying to deal with early on if you are a gunslinger/diplomat like I was because they'll just tear you to pieces as soon as they close the distance with you. Couple that with spending a lot of bullets to take those fuckers down and not being aware that there's a bullet schematic and you have an exercise in tedium involving going back to and from the nearest town and hitting all the pointless random encounters along the way so you can buy bullets. To make matters worst, since I had a high technological alignment, most of Virgil's spells wouldn't work on me, but he'd still be trying to heal me on account of the shoddy AI.

Now, I hear ya: why didn't you go get Jayna in Dernholm to be your tech healer? Well, I was playing blind so as not to spoil myself, but more importantly, I shouldn't have to rely on meta-knowledge to make the game less tedious.

Also, part of the problem is Arcanum's repair system; I'm hard pressed to think of a game other than System Shock 2 where repairing things made a game better. Crafting things in RPG's is fun and Arcanum is certainly no exception, but repairing things items is almost always a tedious pain in the ass. If you're playing with a melee build, it's a pain in the ass to take out your shiny sword, wack something, have it go to shit just as soon as you've entered the dungeon, then you have to go through three or four crappy spare weapons from your backpack.

 

[Phelot]

It's a fun game to me. Especially the character development and a rather interesting story. The combat wasn't all that fun, but I got through it. I know that I'm not adding much to discussion, but I do wish people would relax with the one liner "It's shit!" or "It's teh best!"

 

[someone else]

Suckcanum has an artificial tech vs magic world. It has this tech country wins magic country backstory but this is shit due to the shitty combat balance where guns are suck compared to a fighter with a fine dagger. Dumbfucks who think the game is awesome because the magic guy can't sit on the techy choo-choo train. Maybe they should add a magic carpet so magic people can sit on it and ban tech people. Can't use tech with magic person, can't use magic with tech person, end up with healing potions and healing salve, how forced is this shit? The tech vs magic is so badly done and Codex idiots love this unique aspect of it.

The main story is forgettable, literally because I can't remember what it is. Save the world from destruction is it?

Shitty graphics, shitty sounds, shitty turn/real-time hybrid that try to please everybody but fails to do so.

Fallout is superior, Fuckanum features lazy world design with tunnels, both over and underworld pack full of boring monsters. Like the wolf lane near the start of the game, the Dwarven mines, the boring forested areas leading to that magic/religion dude you have to find and undead castles with skeleton archers armed with automatic bows. Environments stuffed full of nonsense fantasy creatures with different palettes and names as they level up, cool I'm fighting some sort of weird-named creature with fangs and shit that nobody cares about.

Stupid character design where you get a point per level where you spend tons of levels to build a tech gunsmither who at the end of the game, is shit compared to a level 5 half-ogre with a dagger thanks to the shit character development. Dumbfucks here even praise this system. Designers never tried to balance weapons using a simple damage per AP formula adjusted for strength, range, cost and weight. They just create a whole bunch of exciting different magic/tech stuff and just throw them in and the asscunuts lap it up like bitches eating their own shit.

Fuck this game, FUCK YOU if you like it. How the fuck is shit game Trinity?

Shit, shit, shit. Shit you Asscanum lovers. Arcadumb lovers have shit taste and should go back and play Counter-Strike... or Call Of Duty, that is a popular game to go back and play nowadays.

3/10 cos the first 3/10 of the game is good.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Suckcanum has an artificial tech vs magic world. It has this tech country wins magic country backstory but this is shit due to the shitty combat balance where guns are suck compared to a fighter with a fine dagger. Dumbfucks who think the game is awesome because the magic guy can't sit on the techy choo-choo train. Maybe they should add a magic carpet so tech people can sit on it and ban tech people. Can't use tech with magic person, can't use magic with tech person, end up with healing potions and healing salve, how forced is this shit? The tech vs magic is so badly done and Codex idiots love this unique aspect of it.

The main story is forgettable, literally because I can't remember what it is. Save the world from destruction is it?

Shitty graphics, shitty sounds, shitty turn/real-time hybrid that try to please everybody but fails to do so.

Fallout is superior, Fuckanum features lazy world design with tunnels, both over and underworld pack full of boring monsters. Like the wolf lane near the start of the game, the Dwarven mines, the boring forested areas leading to that magic/religion dude you have to find. Environments stuffed full of nonsense fantasy creatures with different palettes and names as they level up, cool I'm fighting some sort of weird-named creature with fangs and shit that nobody cares about.

Stupid character design where you get a point per level where you spend tons of levels to build a tech gunsmither who at the end of the game, is shit compared to a level 5 -half ogre with a dagger thanks to the shit character development. Dumbfucks here even praise this system. Designers never tried to balance weapons using a simple damage per AP formula adjusted for strength, range, cost and weight. They just create a whole bunch of exciting different magic/tech stuff and just throw them in and the asscunuts lap it up like bitches eating their own shit.

Fuck this game, FUCK YOU if you like it. How the fuck is shit game Trinity?

Shit, shit, shit. Shit you Asscanum lovers. Arcadumb lovers have shit taste and should go back and play Counter-Strike... or Call Of Duty, that is a popular game to go back and play nowadays.

3/10 cos the first 3/10 of the game is good.

 

[JarlFrank]

I never really minded the combat much. It wasn't good, but at least it wasn't a long boring slog like DA with its oversized dungeons and copypasted filler encounters and relatively long-taking combat. It was pretty quick, and I managed to make a master persuasion human chick who was also badass in melee combat and managed to get through pretty fine.

Yes, the mines with golems were annoying, but they weren't game-breakingly so. I didn't even mind them that much when I first played the game. All the other features were just so great that the combat didn't bother me at all. The setting, the style, the music, the atmosphere, the writing, I loved pretty much everything about this game. To me it was one of the most immersive RPGs ever. Awesome character system, too.

Arcanum, of Steamworks and Magic Cockscura, is going to be my number 1 favouritest game ever

 

[Deleted member 7219]

I really tried to get into Arcanum, especially after enjoying Fallout, Fallout 2 and Vampire: Bloodlines. But it really is a bad game.

I got the ring, helped out the town's sheriff by taking on some bank robbers, talked my way past the thugs blocking the bridge, got to Tarant and went to the company who made the ring, persuaded my way in, got down into the basement and got killed by zombies. WTF?

Reloaded, decided to walk around Tarant for a while. Most houses were empty or just had someone in who had copy/paste generic 'townsperson' dialogue. Went into a few inns and had people try to kill me for no reason.

I just couldn't get a sense of what the game was about, or what the point of it all was. In Fallout and Bloodlines everyone wanted to use you for their own purposes, or you had people who needed your help, and the game did a good job of making you care.

I wish I enjoyed it more, because a lot of people here obviously like it. But then again, a lot of people here like rogue-likes. The Codex is sometimes wrong.

 

[Needles]

I got the ring

But did you equip it?

On a more serious note: Arcanum is easily my favourite RPG. Great setting, music, c&c, quests... you name it, it's there.

And combat, coupled with the unparalleled character system is imo better than in most RPGs. I am not saying that it's hard/well-balanced/has great encounter design, but it's fun. Just don't fucking play mage... this is the vital step to enjoying Arcanum properly. Seriously, how dumb do you have to be to play the typical fantasy RPG "class" when something original is available.

Juggling str/dex/int/per/cha/guns/smithy/electrical/persuasion/firearms etc..to be able to successfully go through BMC mines, get NPCs, solve diplomatic stuff: fucking glorious.

But why am I even trying.. this thread probably consists of 90% trolls and 10% newfags.

 

[acolyte]

Code.Design.Art.

Enough said.

(... also what my avatar says. Also what Monocause said.)

-------

On the general topic of Troika, I won't even try, except to say that I feel the bashing is very misguided. With only 3 games, they ventured further on than studios with dozens of published titles. Each one of their titles was unique. But why even bother... enjoy the 10th iteration of what-have-you. More of the same - plus it sells!!!

And one more thing: the complaints about VtM:B sewers were ridiculous from the get go. Sure, they annoyed me too on the 1st playthrough (but it was the 1st playthrough -no guides or 3rd party info-, and I was playing a non-combat oriented character, who could only do damage with firearms - and I hadn't brought enough bullets. Still, I completed it fine, without going back for supplies -at the time I don't believe I could find the quicker ways in/out, so the trip back seemed prohibitive). On later playthroughs, with combat oriented build (I'm thinking Brujah & Celerity)? Walk in the park. Not even half an hour, I think. I mean, seriously people. Are you supposed to be hardcore RPG players* or what? A little annoyance not only ain't bad, it's necessary to achieve some feeling of accomplishment (instant gratification is not a valid option).

*I'm not, btw. I generally don't care much for dungeon crawling.