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NWN 2: mask of the betrayer is out now.

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
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Sep 7, 2007
Messages
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Location
California
aweigh said:
how many hours or so? please, no spoilers. nwn2 OC took me about 40 hours

If you are an 'average' DnD player and you try to get as MUCH content as you can in one pass, you will probably take 25+ hours to finish it.

An expert munchkin Frenzied Berserker mulching machine who is clicking through dialog as fast as he can, you can probably blow through it in 20.

Someone asked about what was in store in the next patch, our community rep Rob McGinnis frequently makes updates on what is in store <a href="http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=2&">here</a>.

Anthony Davis
Obsidian Entertainment
 
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I think Im gonna have a funt time with MoTB. I am perfectly aware of the many and often severe flaws in NWN 2, but after the horrible Act 1 I had quite some fun with it and didnt regret buying it.

Nice to see that they seem to have improved MotB on all levels.

Could someone elobare on diplomatic options maybe, without spoilering? I don't expext something substantially better than NWN 2 in this regard, however it would be nice if silly situations like that orc cave (persuade the guards to let you in, then nevertheless have to fight hundreds of orcs inside the cave) won't be repeated.
 

burrie

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Oh, another thing I want to bring up: The Spirit Meter.


I like it. Added a sense of urgency to it all, and a fun game mechanic. At first, I was afraid that it was going to be a real ticking time-bomb, but it's simply something you need to be careful on how to handle it. In the earlier hours of the game, I really mis-used it, tried to keep the spirit energy as high as I could, but the hunger got really high to the point where I was losing more than I could keep up. After I used the Satiate option(you sacrifice 25% of your current level-XP to completely replenish your Spirit Meter, nice feature), I began to take better care of the hunger.

It's a gameplay-thing that drives the storyline. Well implemented, and fascinating backstory.


Currently also going through the modules with the toolset, and damn... there's quite a lot of detail in the conversations. Some pay attention to the player's deity as well. And I like the different possible endings.

Ach, and I do have to share this little conversation nugget with a sidequest-NPC. The topic is about the player's earlier tales...

PC said:
I was upset that we got separated and I couldn't find out what had happened to everyone.

NPC said:
An understandable reaction to such an abrupt and disheartening conclusion, I suppose... but the circumstances were well beyond your control, and it was far too late to change that course of events. There is little point in dwelling on it now, regardless.
That was a little nod to the community criticism, wasn't it? Or am I looking a wee bit too much into this? ;)
 

Starwars

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One thing I don't like about the Spirit Meter is how it's presented. It feels a bit... mechanical to have the numerical values and all that. I would've liked a slightly more ambigious approach to it.

Otherwise I agree. I like that it gives some sense of urgency/hurry, which is something that is just missing in many RPGs. I'm playing a good character right now, and she tries to avoid Devouring Spirits, though she did fall to the temptation a few times.

I wonder how well implemented the system will be for a really evil character?
 

Jedi_Learner

Liturgist
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Messages
894
Anthony Davis said:
MotB for at Obsidian was a pure joy to work on.

But of course you'd say that. After all, it wouldn't look good for you and your future in the gaming industry if you said otherwise, now would it?

Anthony Davis said:
We learned from the mistakes made in NWN2 and kept everything very focused.

I'm sure the majority of gaming companies have said something like this, and the truth is usually very different.

Anthony Davis said:
While you can't satisfy everyone, else you end upsatisfying no one, I think we definitely did better than we did in NWN2:OC on all levels.

On all levels? Are you the new Pete Hines, or something?

Anthony Davis said:
I know there are some people who feel the ending wasn't complete, but that wasn't the case, take that for what you will.

Take that for what you will? Wasn't the case? Talk about arrogance! You might as well of said, "The ending was complete. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong!"

Anthony Davis said:
Thanks for the welcome. You guys hopefully *DO* know that you are actually read by a lot of RPG/RPG-ish developers. Even if they don't comment, they do read.

I'm sure they do. :roll:
 

Anthony Davis

Blizzard Entertainment
Developer
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Messages
2,100
Location
California
Jedi_Learner said:
Anthony Davis said:
MotB for at Obsidian was a pure joy to work on.

But of course you'd say that. After all, it wouldn't look good for you and your future in the gaming industry if you said otherwise, now would it?

Anthony Davis said:
We learned from the mistakes made in NWN2 and kept everything very focused.

I'm sure the majority of gaming companies have said something like this, and the truth is usually very different.

Anthony Davis said:
While you can't satisfy everyone, else you end upsatisfying no one, I think we definitely did better than we did in NWN2:OC on all levels.

On all levels? Are you the new Pete Hines, or something?

Anthony Davis said:
I know there are some people who feel the ending wasn't complete, but that wasn't the case, take that for what you will.

Take that for what you will? Wasn't the case? Talk about arrogance! You might as well of said, "The ending was complete. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong!"

Anthony Davis said:
Thanks for the welcome. You guys hopefully *DO* know that you are actually read by a lot of RPG/RPG-ish developers. Even if they don't comment, they do read.

I'm sure they do. :roll:

My cover is blown!
AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhsssssssss....gurgle.


If I don't have anything good to say, I wouldn't bother saying anything (in public :wink: ).

I was merely stating my opinion on the project. It WAS fun to work on. Scope and Focus was tight, it was expertly managed by Kevin Saunders, Rich Taylor, and Tim Cox. I did not say it was perfect, nothing on this planet is.

My statement regarding the ending of the NWN2:OC is fact. That is the ending we intended, it just was not up to people's expectations, and I personally felt it could have used more polish. That was my implication with the 'take that as you will' comment. I will be more specific in future comments to avoid confusion. I apologize for sounding arrogant.

I do think it is human nature for people who are excited about something to descend into hyperbole, and that can lead to false or higher than normal expectations - or in the case of some, cynicism. However, in my comments I have tried to be very clear that I am stating my opinion, I am a programmer, not marketing.

Anyway, we always welcome constructive feedback over at the NWN2 forums. We have community representatives who compile everything they can about bugs and feature requests (though we don't always post feedback on a per case basis, thus the blog).


Anthony Davis
Gameplay Programmer
Obsidian Entertainment
 

OSK

Arcane
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Codex 2012 Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
There goes Jedi_Learner, attacking "The Man."


Codexer: There's a lot less filler than with NWN2.

"The man": Yes, we learned from our mistakes and made the game more focused.

Jedi_Learner: INFIDEL! DURKA DURKA! MOHAMMED JIHAD!
 

Rina

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Messages
151
I just finished the expansion and I have to say that I really enjoyed it. It was still a bit too hack'n'slash heavy for my personal taste, and loot was silly (10k gold in every barrel, powerful items in dirt piles), but otherwise there was very little that I didnt like. Story was good, enough dialog, no annoying forced companions, music was great, narrator had a great voice, level design was far better than in OC. Oh, and Myrkyl... <3

If Obsidian's future titles will be of same quality, perhaps there is some hope for RPGs after all (if AoD doesnt single-handedly revive the genre). :)
 

RK47

collides like two planets pulled by gravity
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Dead State Divinity: Original Sin
Anthony Davis said:
aweigh said:
how many hours or so? please, no spoilers. nwn2 OC took me about 40 hours

If you are an 'average' DnD player and you try to get as MUCH content as you can in one pass, you will probably take 25+ hours to finish it.

An expert munchkin Frenzied Berserker mulching machine who is clicking through dialog as fast as he can, you can probably blow through it in 20.

Someone asked about what was in store in the next patch, our community rep Rob McGinnis frequently makes updates on what is in store <a href="http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=2&">here</a>.

Anthony Davis
Obsidian Entertainment

eh, good job on the expansion Davis. It's a good step up from the NWN2 OC.
 

Elhoim

Iron Tower Studio
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Jedi_Learner said:
Anthony Davis said:
MotB for at Obsidian was a pure joy to work on.

But of course you'd say that. After all, it wouldn't look good for you and your future in the gaming industry if you said otherwise, now would it?

Anthony Davis said:
We learned from the mistakes made in NWN2 and kept everything very focused.

I'm sure the majority of gaming companies have said something like this, and the truth is usually very different.

Anthony Davis said:
While you can't satisfy everyone, else you end upsatisfying no one, I think we definitely did better than we did in NWN2:OC on all levels.

On all levels? Are you the new Pete Hines, or something?

Anthony Davis said:
I know there are some people who feel the ending wasn't complete, but that wasn't the case, take that for what you will.

Take that for what you will? Wasn't the case? Talk about arrogance! You might as well of said, "The ending was complete. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong!"

Anthony Davis said:
Thanks for the welcome. You guys hopefully *DO* know that you are actually read by a lot of RPG/RPG-ish developers. Even if they don't comment, they do read.

I'm sure they do. :roll:

You are bitter, young padawan.

And BTW, it's not THAT hard to improve the NWN2 OC in all levels. :P
 

Bradylama

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Oklahomo
Jedi_Learner said:
But of course you'd say that. After all, it wouldn't look good for you and your future in the gaming industry if you said otherwise, now would it?

You know, alternatively if he was unsatisfied with it, he could have just said nothing.

Just sayin'.

On topic: I'm still frighteningly conflicted about having to buy the OC for this...
 

Texas Red

Whiner
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Sep 9, 2006
Messages
7,044
I am surprised, I really am. The hype actually came true! And it seems the majority of the Codexers like it, something completely unheard of before.

I want to eagerly play MotB but I havent yet finished the OC. I always lose interest in my characters by the end.

Quest-SHUNS: Is it true about the ending and the story, that theyre on par with PS:T?

How good are the companions compared to other games? Im particulary interested in this aspect, so something more descriptive than "Theyre good/bad" would be welcome.
 

Aditya

Educated
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Chaosium
@jedi_learner:

Just shut the fuck up you bitter whiny bitch. All the while you have been trolling on all the NWN2 threads saying NOTHING constructing and/or logical but just attacking either the fans or devs in pathetic attempts of scoring "wow points" from codex coz apparently you 10-yr old cunt seem to think codex is only about illogical stupid whining not discussions.

Didnt others kick your butt in other NWN2 thread already? Dont you ever learn that no one is liking you??!

Its clear that you do not like ANYTHING in life in general and you are just filled up with hatred, poison, bitterness and anger. Your life sucks. Just stop posting in these threads if you dont like NWN2 UNLESS you have something constructive and/or logical to say. This thread was going really fine with discussion between devs and fans until your rotten self intervened. We are tired of your incessant annoying whining and we get that you dont like the game! Its understandable that some people wont like the game and criticism is fine but urs is just WHINE WHINE ATTACKS WHINE....
SO JUST STOP THE FUCK UP AND GET LOST.

----

On the topic:

I liked NWN2. While certainly not great it was fun to play and I am really looking forward to MotB. A question to dev:

You mentioned there are 3 endings. How they are decided? Means, are they dependent on choice you make towards the end of game, or its the cumulation of choices throughout the game? Is it alignment based and how much difference will it make if I play solo WITHOUT any companions?
 

fastpunk

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Just went through the thread and it's very encouraging; haven't seen any reviews yet, this thread is the closest thing to one so far. I guess it's time to resume the OC and get it over with so I can move on to MotB. And like TWD said: how are the companions? Please, elaborate!
 
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You dont need to play trough the OC in order to start MotB. You can just create a new character at the start.
 

burrie

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You mentioned there are 3 endings. How they are decided? Means, are they dependent on choice you make towards the end of game, or its the cumulation of choices throughout the game? Is it alignment based and how much difference will it make if I play solo WITHOUT any companions?
Well, I've been browsing through the content via the toolset(generally do that after finishing a NWN campaign), and various choices you make mid-way through the game influences the possible endings you can get. Plus, you have to go through various optional areas to reach the optimal ending.

Quest-SHUNS: Is it true about the ending and the story, that theyre on par with PS:T?
On par with PS:T... ach, somewhat difficult for me to answer. Mostly because PS:T has the nostalgic-thing that MotB doesn't have for me yet. My first response would be no, but again... the nostalgic-thing can be severely clouding my judgement, so ask me in a year :)

But even if it isn't "on par", I would say that it gets terribly close.

How good are the companions compared to other games? Im particulary interested in this aspect, so something more descriptive than "Theyre good/bad" would be welcome.
Much better than the NWN2 ones, at least. Each of them stand out, rather than feeling tacked on, as some of the companions in NWN2/KotOR2 felt for me. Each character is also connected to a particular part of the story in which they really get a moment to shine and stand out from the rest. They're an intriguing bunch with developed backstories and agendas.

I am also quite amazed at the content generated for these optional characters. Haven't seen this since some o the earlier games. Currently reading through some conversations trees for the two companions I couldn't take along(one because of a max-four-party-limit, the other one being closed off because I chose another companion), and their part of the storyline is equally developed.

Finally, I think Obsidian nailed the influence-system properly this time around. You still get to learn a lot more about them even if you aren't really licking their boots every chance you get, but you can unlock more, if you want. And it has a subtle influence in how certain quests end as well.
 

fastpunk

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TalesfromtheCrypt said:
You dont need to play trough the OC in order to start MotB. You can just create a new character at the start.

I know but it would be a shame to leave the job half-done. :D

Finally, I think Obsidian nailed the influence-system properly this time around. You still get to learn a lot more about them even if you aren't really licking their boots every chance you get, but you can unlock more, if you want. And it has a subtle influence in how certain quests end as well.

And if you're influence is very low with them? Do they challenge your decisions if it's not right by them? I mean is it something close to what Kreia did in KotOR2 when she'd give you a serious counter-argument, not just a simple backlash.
 

Trash

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Damn, it´s hard to comment something now without spoilers. I´ll try to keep them down though.

I´ve finished the game, and that is an accomplisment allready. I haven´t finished anything besides company of heroes in the past year or so. Let world in conflict and medieval 2 lie aside for it, which is also pretty amazing since I dig these games. All in all, I must say that I haven´t had this much fun in an rpg in ages.

Story is rather intruiging. It´s a fun addition to the tale told in the OC, ties up some of the loose end and is strong enough to stand on it´s own. The endings are a blast btw.

Choice and consequense is there and choices made in various points of the game determine the end. A defenite improvement on how it was done in games like Kotor. Lots of quests have different approaches, but don´t expect the openess of fallout.

Npc´s are well voiced and have generally interesting characters and tales. The influence system has always sounded like it could be cool, but really seems to work this time around. Some quests are actually affected by it.

Sound is good. I liked the music, the effects are generally of the same quality as nwn 2 OC but the voices are a lot better. Also kudos to the narrator. I would have liked to hear more stuff from him, but what there is, is very atmospheric.

Graphics are generally the same as in nwn 2 OC. However the areas seem to have been designed with a lot more thought put into them.

Gameplay was at first a bit shit, I have to admit. I never liked the controll scheme from NWN 2 and had to adept to the new one. In the end however I learned to use it, even though I´m still not enthousiastic. The spirit eater meter is a fun addition, that keeps the game rolling. You actually have to make some difficult choices because of it and have to really keep it in mind during play.

In the end I loved it and heartily recommend it even to you angry cunts.


PS Jedi Learner is just trying to hard to be codex material here. :lol: Play the game, you might be pleasantly surprised.
 

burrie

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fastpunk said:
And if you're influence is very low with them? Do they challenge your decisions if it's not right by them? I mean is it something close to what Kreia did in KotOR2 when she'd give you a serious counter-argument, not just a simple backlash.
I have seen some nodes which only fire off if the player has low influence with a character. Most of the time, this seemed to be focused on how the characters would respond(supportive with high influence, arguing with low). And one quest didn't end in its optimal fashion, because I hadn't invested enough time into influencing a certain character. Which, for the record, made a lot of sense.

Furthermore, they have a seperate conversation tree in which they'll announce that they're going to leave the PC because of his actions. You get one chance to keep them with you(diplomacy/taunt/intimidate check), but if you do something bad afterwards, they'll still leave. You won't lose your equipment(they give it back), and you will get a chance to kill them.
 

Starwars

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And if you're influence is very low with them? Do they challenge your decisions if it's not right by them? I mean is it something close to what Kreia did in KotOR2 when she'd give you a serious counter-argument, not just a simple backlash.

I haven't gotten to -points in influence with anyone (there is a scale for 0-100 but it can go below 0, don't know how far down). Next to the number there is also a brief description of that companions feelings towards you (Supportive, Loyal etc).
I've liked the companions I have with me so far, so I've gotten along with them pretty well. There was one occasion where I went against what a companion advised me to do (which I might add was an important sequence for the companion), and suffered a really big influence loss.
Though I don't think it was a very strong counter-argument going on (though I played this sequence very late at night, so I might have forgotten), but what I liked is that it was a rather hard choice for my PC to make.

My favourite companion so far is a certain cleric. I found her to be very likeable, and she seems to have a rather interesting backstory. There are certain "Fall-from-Grace vibes" I get from her, and indeed, I think that Chris Avellone worked on her.

Two of the companions seem to be mutually exclusive, one of them being ultra-evil (I got the other one). I'm looking forward to playing through this game with an evil spirit-eater and check out that companion.
 

Monolith

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I'll give the OC another shot. If I manage to finish it this time I'm possibly going to get MotB. Unfortunately that includes buying that thing again because I sold it on ebay. Fortunately it's quite cheap here in Poland.

Anthony, while you're around, who of you thought that being forced to wander through long corridors, killing the same unchallenging enemy again and again and...again would be fun? How did the fans respond to i. e. the orc caves, which consisted of nothing else? I stopped playing when I had to storm that fort full of githzerai, shortly after you leave Neverwinter. I don't know how I managed to get this far, but that was the point when I simply thought "No, fuck off". Really, if you can't make interesting combat, can't you just add an automated-combat mode or trim the amount of combat encounters or make them optional? For instance, I didn't have much of a problem with combat in BG 2. Most of it was short and challenging and seldom as repetetive as the combat in NWN and NWN 2.
 

Texas Red

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The fort of githyanki is actually one of my most favourite areas. You got a lot of dialog there and the dungeon itself is rather small. You can even "kill" a boss with your words there.

But the orc caves and warehouses are certainly awful. Its as if though Obsidian disregarded absolutely everything they knew from the past games. Why were all the enemies trivial clones of each other? Give variety and add a few powerful bosses here and there. Instead of small battles you could have several large ones ala Icewind Dale 2. NWN 2 OC is long enough and cutting away some of those caves would actually be welcomed by most everyone, I think. And not perhaps simply removing whole areas, but give a player a chance to talk his way out of them even if he doesnt have the skills, like with the lizard caves before. Basically, there are a number of ways you could improve the warehouses/caves.
 

Oarfish

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Sep 3, 2005
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2,511
Monolith said:
I'll give the OC another shot. If I manage to finish it this time I'm possibly going to get MotB.

The OC gets pretty grim. I never managed to make it past the point when the designers thought it would be a good idea to spam levels full of 12 HD goblins. The middle of the game with the trial and castle management is pretty good though. The combat seems to be better chosen in MotB. It suffers from being very high level though, low level D&D combat is better - especially as the magic system doesn't seem allow for the archmage duels that were the best thing about high level IE combat.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
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Messages
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Jedi_Learner said:
You are making an idiot out of yourself. Thought you might want to know that.
 

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