Which Oblivion mods are you using?

[Thrawn05]

If You commit any breach of this Agreement, Your right to use the Editor under this Agreement shall automatically terminate, without notice.

So if we break the the EULA, does Bethesda send this guy after you?

 

[kohla]

New mod just in, Spell Removal Potions. Now that's a good idea if I ever saw one

Yet another way to remove unwanted spells. Enjoy!

 

[thomase]

You have to increase your level to get better armor/weapons... :wink:

And they get better gear too ... so what is the point of level to get better gear when your enemies get upgraded too?

None.

You failed to detect my sarcasm...

 

[thomase]

Of course it is, the unique artifacts are ... well unique and so you can get Umbra right at lv. 1 since Umbra will be lv1.

So let me get this straight...

EVERY enemy in the game (even unique ones) are scaled in difficulty to the character level and EVERY container has randomly generated loot scaled in value/power to the character level?

 

[Lord Chambers]

EVERY enemy in the game (even unique ones) are scaled in difficulty to the character level and EVERY container has randomly generated loot scaled in value/power to the character level?

Pretty sure that's not the case. But it is such a prevalent "solution" that every chest I've ever opened, or enemy I've fought, has been equal level to me. I don't feel any reward from leveling up or getting new armor. I feel like I have to continue on this treadmill otherwise I might get swamped. I wouldn't, of course, but that's how I feel, since every 1v1 is worthwhile, and many 2v1s mean I could very well lose. Thus auto-save every 10 feet. Yay. Funnnnnnnnnnnnn. I never get to be master in this world, I only get to work very hard.

Morrowind obviously was too wide open in regards to becoming all powerful. Not enough care was exerted by the developers to make sure a level 1 character can't ruin his experience with a full set of orcish armor. But that they think the solution is to make virtually all loot and enemies completely to scale is completely fucking retarded. It removes hope from the world and replaces it with work.

Let me get a hot fucking piece of armor at level 1. But make me have to do some crazy fucking super buffed potion run through a guantlet of enemies and pick a hard lock with my low starting security rating to do it. Don't just leave it out in the open like was basically the case in Morrowind.

 

[Old Scratch]

So let me get this straight...

EVERY enemy in the game (even unique ones) are scaled in difficulty to the character level and EVERY container has randomly generated loot scaled in value/power to the character level?

No on the enemies thing; they seem to have level caps. So for example, after around level five, rats, wolves, and mudcrabs will always be pussies you can one-shot. New, fiercer creatures do start popping up at certain level achievements though. Some creatures just get a name change to signify their increased strength, like zombies going from regular 'ol zombies to sexually-frustrated zombies, though that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

Bandits, highwaymen, and the like do seem to grow with the character, because they get their equipment upgraded. However, there still seems to be a point where they go from being a fairly good fight to pushovers. That could be my imagination or the fact I've just gotten better overall at the game.

Don't put too much weight into the knee-jerk reactions from idiots who say things like: "I saw teh bandits with good weapons...no fair.....what is point of leveling then????"

MONEY is the point of leveling. Without leveling, you don't have access to more expensive loot. Without money you can't buy shit like houses, horses, or whatever. Yeah it's a weak incentive, but it's there. It wouldn't be very interesting or rewarding from a loot perspective if every human enemy(like bandits) you encountered in the game had rusty iron weapons and armor either.

The fact that enemies scale isn't what makes leveling seem somewhat pointless, it's that the incentives, or requirements to have a high level aren't good enough. There are a few sidequests that require you to be a certain level, but that's still not enough.

Loot in containers does seem to be scaled to the level of the player. Keeps things somewhat balanced, but it also eliminates any thrill you might have of finding some rare uber item. Plus the fact most armors and weapons are part of a few generic sets, rather than individual pieces, makes the whole thing a lot less interesting too.

 

[suibhne]

Don't put too much weight into the knee-jerk reactions from idiots who say things like: "I saw teh bandits with good weapons...no fair.....what is point of leveling then????"

Speaking of knee-jerk... You know, some of us hate that system because it destroys the credibility and consistency of the gameworld, not because it ruins our powergaming.

 

[aweigh]

Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul rectifies most of the levelled lists / loot / equipment. The list of changes to gameplay is huge, go look it up.

 

[Drakron]

No on the enemies thing; they seem to have level caps. So for example, after around level five, rats, wolves, and mudcrabs will always be pussies you can one-shot. New, fiercer creatures do start popping up at certain level achievements though. Some creatures just get a name change to signify their increased strength, like zombies going from regular 'ol zombies to sexually-frustrated zombies, though that seems to be the exception rather than the rule.

First at some point those cap leveled creatures will stop showing up.

Second, I can already "one shoot" kill a lot of creatures at lv1 with the rusty iron weapons from the starting dungeon.

Bandits, highwaymen, and the like do seem to grow with the character, because they get their equipment upgraded. However, there still seems to be a point where they go from being a fairly good fight to pushovers. That could be my imagination or the fact I've just gotten better overall at the game.

That is the issue, they sould NOT start to spawn with gear that when sold would be enough for them to retire.

Also again what is the point of then level with the player when they are pushovers either way?

None, except to hurt characters that decided to specialize major skills in non-combat.

They are pushovers if you are a fighter (or any combat oriented character) but if someone wants to play a non combat thief they are forced to stop raising their major skills and train their combat skills but since the enemies leveled they are screwed ... its not like they can go look for a lower level enemy and train.

Don't put too much weight into the knee-jerk reactions from idiots who say things like: "I saw teh bandits with good weapons...no fair.....what is point of leveling then????"

And I say dont put much weight in morons that are unable to grasp the idea of a world were rare items became common destroy immersion.

MONEY is the point of leveling. Without leveling, you don't have access to more expensive loot. Without money you can't buy shit like houses, horses, or whatever. Yeah it's a weak incentive, but it's there. It wouldn't be very interesting or rewarding from a loot perspective if every human enemy(like bandits) you encountered in the game had rusty iron weapons and armor either.

Fist money sinks have to be worth something.

I get free horses (not that it matters with fast travel) with the best one being given as a reward.

Houses are pointless outside storage.

Gear is pointless when the world always going to default to your level so why do I need a glass weapon when almost nobody will use then because I am not "high level enough".

The fact that enemies scale isn't what makes leveling seem somewhat pointless, it's that the incentives, or requirements to have a high level aren't good enough. There are a few sidequests that require you to be a certain level, but that's still not enough.

Of course its not enough ... the arena and guilds sould have skill requirements for rank advancement.

Loot in containers does seem to be scaled to the level of the player. Keeps things somewhat balanced, but it also eliminates any thrill you might have of finding some rare uber item. Plus the fact most armors and weapons are part of a few generic sets, rather than individual pieces, makes the whole thing a lot less interesting too.

It is.

Morrowind did similar with loot being random generated but the lists prevented from having ebony items being generated.

There was only two sets of Daedric in Morrowind ... in fact I think the level lists in Morrowind cap at silver so everything above it had to be raided from handpicked locations, also you could see guards in ebony and dwemer sets at lv1 as Umbra is the only with a "leveled" ebony set in Oblivion.

Its the whole "the world levels with you" that I have a issue with, the fact that so many plugins have been released to cap enemies levels, remove high level "rare" items from their spawn list and allow low level enemies to still be generated and the interrest of people to use such plugins shows Bethsoft really screwed up with Oblivion.

 

[suibhne]

First at some point those cap leveled creatures will stop showing up.

That's not really true. Mudcrabs spawn on the lakeshore even if you're Lvl Infinity+1. I still run into Rats in some dungeon areas, and I still see Wolves (well, Timber Wolves) in the wilderness. They're uncommon, tho; at lvl 5 the wilderness is teeming with wolves, but at lvl 20 it's full of Mountain Lions and Brown Bears, with a wolf of some stripe maybe every square mile.

I agree with your complaints in general - I just wanted to set the record straight on this issue, since it keeps popping up.

 

[Twinfalls]

Upcoming official plug-ins:

https://obliviondownloads.com/StoreCata ... tegoryId=1

An Orrery - I did like the one in Redguard, very The Dark Crystal....

 

[Blahblah Talks]

Upcoming official plug-ins:

I just saw that. $.50 cheaper than the XBox version. I wish the descriptions were a little more..... umm .... descriptive. New dungeon/building? New NPCs? New creatures? New Quest? How involved? Of the three, the Orrery one sounds like it actually might be worth it. I wouldn't pay $2 for horse armor or a house.

 

[Lumpy]

Upcoming official plug-ins:

https://obliviondownloads.com/StoreCata ... tegoryId=1

An Orrery - I did like the one in Redguard, very The Dark Crystal....

The last two ones do look nice, and they could be worth .50 together. But really - two dollars for a house?

 

[kingcomrade]

Well I realize things must be different in Romania, but houses here in America cost hundreds of thousands of dollars. Two dollars is a bargain.

 

[Rendelius]

I figured I'd post a list sans tubgirl, at least for VD's benefit.

I applied a long list of mods yesterday, and the game was immediately more fun.

...

As for the $2.73 question - I totally disagree with Rendelius' suggestion that Beth should get a total pass for not implementing some of this stuff. Their stock UI is total crap, and even BTMod can't come close to fixing the basic design stupidities. Their levelling scheme is objectively bad design, not a matter of personal preference as Rendelius claims. Some of the stuff I've started using is merely cosmetic, like the colored world map, but a few of those mods are prime examples of volunteers doing Beth's work for them.

First of all: good list of mods. I use many of them myself.

Two points you made and I don't want to let them stand without rebuttal from my side. I never suggested that Beth should get a total pass for shipping the game as it was shipped. I said that some things are _understandable_ if you care to take their point of view. Understandable doesn't mean that I think they are good or perfect. UI: They said the game would be the same on Xbox and PC, and let us all assume that that wasn't just a promise, but there could have been some pressure by either the marketing department or Microsoft to do that. HOWEVER, they built the UI in a way that it can be modded, and that's what happened. Distant textures (and the wonderful fix) - same thing, or having to do with the min specs or whatever. I think they had reasons for most things they did, but yes, there are design flaws too, like guild item ownership (which, too, has been fixed by mods).

Level scaling: I still stand to my view that this isn't objectively bad design. It's bad design for a part of the players. It's NOT bad design for those coming from the Diablo side of the universe, and not for those coming from FF or MMORPGs. For you and me, it is bad. Tm Servo fixed it for us. And I am happy.

I am posting this with confidence since I have now put enough time into the game to see most every aspect it offers. And I am done with my review now. I'll let it rest for a couple of days, and it should go up on RPGDot next week, I think.

 

[bryce777]

Upcoming official plug-ins:

https://obliviondownloads.com/StoreCata ... tegoryId=1

An Orrery - I did like the one in Redguard, very The Dark Crystal....

Why do women love the dark crystal so much. My wife (or nonwife as it happens) simply loved that movie to death.

 

[Rendelius]

Of course it is, the unique artifacts are ... well unique and so you can get Umbra right at lv. 1 since Umbra will be lv1.

So let me get this straight...

EVERY enemy in the game (even unique ones) are scaled in difficulty to the character level and EVERY container has randomly generated loot scaled in value/power to the character level?

No.

 

[Avé]

Rendelius, you disgust me.

"ITS NOT A PROBLEM OR A BAD THING BECAUSE MODDERS CAN FIX IT"

"BETH MADE A BAD UI SO MODDERS COULD FIX IT!"

Get your nose out of their ass you sycophantic cunt.

 

[Micmu]

Mostly yes.
Use TESCS to find out. Except for FEW enchanted items, most of hi-grade equipment appears in randomized chests.
For example, there are NO hand-placed daedric armor pieces anywhere.

There is absolutely no point in exploring (you realize that after you visit 10-15 random dungeons and level up a bit).
You can periodically visit only ONE dungeon and get all the stuff you had to hunt in MW (yes, this includes ebony and daedric armor). Loot is randomized and respawns. You can even save before you enter the dungeon, then reload if RNG didn't grant you pwnz0ring items you wished for (for example random enchanted boss items).
Remember robbing the vaults in Morrowind, hunting for rare ebony and daedric equipment? NO SUCH THING IN OBLIVION.
Also, there are no pauldrons at all, no separate gloves, no tower shields, less weapons (all share the same animation and have similar/same properties, btw), enchanting is lobotomized, etc.
IMHO, Oblivion is nowhere near the exploration/sandbox game Morrowind was (something MW was good at) yet it is still a very, very, shitty RPG.

 

[Rendelius]

Rendelius, you disgust me.

"ITS NOT A PROBLEM OR A BAD THING BECAUSE MODDERS CAN FIX IT"

"BETH MADE A BAD UI SO MODDERS COULD FIX IT!"

Get your nose out of their ass you sycophantic cunt.

Watch your language, it shows what your brain is made of.

And then read my posting again and try to understand. When done, come back. For now, you missed the point.

 

[Avé]

Rendelius, you disgust me.

"ITS NOT A PROBLEM OR A BAD THING BECAUSE MODDERS CAN FIX IT"

"BETH MADE A BAD UI SO MODDERS COULD FIX IT!"

Get your nose out of their ass you sycophantic cunt.

Watch your language, it shows what your brain is made of.

And then read my posting again and try to understand. When done, come back. For now, you missed the point.

"I said that some things are _understandable_"
"they built the UI in a way that it can be modded, and that's what happened"

Fuckwit.

 

[suibhne]

UI: They said the game would be the same on Xbox and PC, and let us all assume that that wasn't just a promise, but there could have been some pressure by either the marketing department or Microsoft to do that. HOWEVER, they built the UI in a way that it can be modded, and that's what happened.

Just because they admitted both versions would use the same UI doesn't mean the decision was right. It was a bad decision that seriously marred their game. Get some perspective: the benchmark isn't what Beth promised; it's good game design.

Anyway, before you tidy up that review with some justification for the mod community doing Beth's work, you might want to check out the initial PC sales numbers versus the d/l numbers from TESS. That gap is probably already tens of thousands of paying customers, and it'll only get bigger and bigger.

It seems disingenuous to evaluate the game including mods, when maybe 0.5% of purchasers will install those mods and the CS isn't even shipped with the game. Anyway, did your copy of the game include an invitation to d/l the CS?

 

[Avé]

DEY TUK OUR JAWBS

 

[FrancoTAU]

I've never modded in my life, nor do i really care to try. But i appreciate the dudes who do it.

I'm just curious though, how long on average does it take to make them? It seems absurd that modders were able to make major fixes within days of the release. Even more absurd that Beth couldn't do some of them like the toggling the compass. They must've just skipped playing the game and went right into modding.

 

[Lumpy]

I've never modded in my life, nor do i really care to try. But i appreciate the dudes who do it.

I'm just curious though, how long on average does it take to make them? It seems absurd that modders were able to make major fixes within days of the release. Even more absurd that Beth couldn't do some of them like the toggling the compass. They must've just skipped playing the game and went right into modding.

The guy who modded the compass out didn't have the game yet. It was only a matter of changing a variable, MSFD already explained it here.