Blizzard announced "Classic" World of Warcraft

[J1M]

So a lot of people are happy about this screenshot:

And they're just stupid. Old servers used to hold 4k players on two entire continents. Just two areas though can only support around 300 people. Which means 6k people online is the maximum you'll get during blizzcon, and it's horrible.

It's not actually WoW Vanilla though. It's more accurate to call it a mod of the current client. The demo will go fine and they will celebrate this questionable tech choice as being responsible for a smooth test because they aren't going to disable things like sharding/phasing.

 

[Makabb]

questionable tech choice as being responsible for a smooth test because they aren't going to disable things like sharding/phasing.

They will not, it was not in vanilla, and if they do, people will quit en masse.

 

[Sentinel]

So a lot of people are happy about this screenshot:

And they're just stupid. Old servers used to hold 4k players on two entire continents. Just two areas though can only support around 300 people. Which means 6k people online is the maximum you'll get during blizzcon, and it's horrible.

vanilla realms held 2500 people maximum each.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

yea they should just let all 2 million people in the same server and 2 zones at the same time

 

[Xor]

I seem to remember the bigger vanilla realms having something like 5k players, but it's been so goddamn long that I could just be pulling that number out of the ether. They're not basing the backend tech for this off the vanilla code, though - they've said they basically bootstrapped the vanilla database onto the modern client, which means it's probably running a modified modern client on the modern backend with some features disabled. I don't know how many people will be able to be in each zone but it won't be based on the server tech from 14 years ago.

 

[Zeriel]

Seems its faithfull to original, cautiously optimistic

I think Modern Blizzard is summed up in a nutshell by the fact that the only way you'll get talent trees back is by playing WoW Classic. I mean, it's good, but it's sad that's the closest you're ever going to get to interesting game design from them ever again.

-17 devs are working on the game, 2 former Nost-devs for assuring authenticity.

That's pretty funny. So instead of getting people at Blizzard who worked on the game they get amateurs who made an emulator to do it, because the other 15 devs probably have zero experience with that period of Blizzard. Kind of says it all, really.

 

[J1M]

Seems its faithfull to original, cautiously optimistic

I think Modern Blizzard is summed up in a nutshell by the fact that the only way you'll get talent trees back is by playing WoW Classic. I mean, it's good, but it's sad that's the closest you're ever going to get to interesting game design from them ever again.

-17 devs are working on the game, 2 former Nost-devs for assuring authenticity.

That's pretty funny. So instead of getting people at Blizzard who worked on the game they get amateurs who made an emulator to do it, because the other 15 devs probably have zero experience with that period of Blizzard. Kind of says it all, really.

One of the reasons why the enthusiasm some people have for "additional classic content" is baffling. They wouldn't have anyone who worked there that was actually familiar with the game's design principles and goals. (And they wouldn't be tracking down old gamespy interviews or whatever to fill in the gaps.)

 

[InD_ImaginE]

The thing with Skill Tree in WoW is that it is pretty much appearent the most optimal way to play a certain class/sub class is just to follow certain build, usually found in some forums after a month or two after Skill Tree changes.

DPS Fire mage? Pick these passives. Healer druid? Pick these.

It is pretty much just illusion of a choice at one point, unless deliberately picking sub optimal build is a choice.

 

[Makabb]

The thing with Skill Tree in WoW is that it is pretty much appearent the most optimal way to play a certain class/sub class is just to follow certain build, usually found in some forums after a month or two after Skill Tree changes.

That's what an untrained mind thinks,

but once you play the game you see there are plenty of high level items with different effects that stack together with different talents, so you can make a build just for a specific type of gear to buff that effect.

 

[Cyberarmy]

The thing with Skill Tree in WoW is that it is pretty much appearent the most optimal way to play a certain class/sub class is just to follow certain build, usually found in some forums after a month or two after Skill Tree changes.

DPS Fire mage? Pick these passives. Healer druid? Pick these.

It is pretty much just illusion of a choice at one point, unless deliberately picking sub optimal build is a choice.

For PvE maybe but for PvP those trees hide some glourious WTF hybrid builds.

 

[Zeriel]

The thing with Skill Tree in WoW is that it is pretty much appearent the most optimal way to play a certain class/sub class is just to follow certain build, usually found in some forums after a month or two after Skill Tree changes.

DPS Fire mage? Pick these passives. Healer druid? Pick these.

It is pretty much just illusion of a choice at one point, unless deliberately picking sub optimal build is a choice.

For PvE maybe but for PvP those trees hide some glourious WTF hybrid builds.

It wasn't even the case for PVE. Arguably the best rogue build for C'thun in AQ40 was what was until then primarily considered a "PVP only" build, where you spammed hemorrhage and got tons of CP. Due to the peculiarities of C'thun, he basically had no "back", so backstab/ambush was largely unusable. I remember being like #2 on that fight due to high mobility, in a raid of 40 people, so it was pretty good.

 

[J1M]

The thing with Skill Tree in WoW is that it is pretty much appearent the most optimal way to play a certain class/sub class is just to follow certain build, usually found in some forums after a month or two after Skill Tree changes.

DPS Fire mage? Pick these passives. Healer druid? Pick these.

It is pretty much just illusion of a choice at one point, unless deliberately picking sub optimal build is a choice.

Even one hybrid spec is more than the current game allows, and several were viable.

There were other advantages to the system too. For example, with the right talents you could level a mage with AOE grinding or a paladin as prot. There was gameplay in planning your path, even if by the time raiding rolled around you had to take a certain build to play a certain role due to the debuff limit.

 

[Aildrik]

One thing I do keep wondering is their intent for the future : is this server going to remain in a fixed state, which will make it boring, or are they intent on expanding it which would kind of ruin the entire point of the thing ?
It is a mystery.

If Vanilla is a smashing success, I have to imagine they would at least entertain a BC era server or maybe even something like the EQ progression servers.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

It won't be, the only reason people want vanilla is because of nostalgia. Game will be dead in a few months. WoW's formula is the same today as it was 10 years ago; it's always been a carebear theme park skinnerbox it just has better graphics now.

People keep comparing this to the success of old school runescape but that's not the same thing. OSRS had a lot of unique systems to it compared with new runescape (hardcore death punishments, totally open ended character building and customization, unique graphic style, crafting that actually matters, etc....) while old WoW literally has nothing that new WoW doesn't have

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

I can go through the myriad of reasons why classic WoW will fail. Why the target audience is a bunch of nostalgic manbaby adults. Why the game has literally no appeal to the modern gaming generation, who actually have time to play. Why, even that being the case, the game is fundamentally garbage and has always been a piece of crap skinner box.

But you know what? I'll just sit here and laugh at the idea that a bunch of stupid nostalgic 30 year old boomers are going to have their lives ruined for a second time over this shit game.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

It's also funny that these raging manbabies have no real arguments against anything I say, because it's true, so they just rate me "cuck" or "retard" to cope.

Ha ha ha

 

[Bester]

I don't rate your posts, but what arguments are you expecting when you say yourself "I can go through the myriad of reasons why classic WoW will fail, but you know what? I'll just sit here and laugh". When you start discussing it seriously, I'll answer.

the only reason people want vanilla is because of nostalgia.

For example, how is nostalgia a bad motivator? Yeah, it's cause of nostalgia. I love nostalgia.

The only reason people listen to 80s music is nostalgia? Yeah maybe, I still love it and listen to it. So what's your point exactly? You honestly sound like a retard with your "OLOLO" style of communication. Are you being nostalgic about mentally being a 9 year old?

 

[Gregz]

WoW declined with every expansion post-WOTLK, during which it was the most popular MMORPG of all time.

There's plenty of reason to bring it back.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

For example, how is nostalgia a bad motivator? Yeah, it's cause of nostalgia. I love nostalgia.

The only reason people listen to 80s music is nostalgia? Yeah maybe, I still love it and listen to it. So what's your point exactly?

They're nostalgic for their youth, not WoW. Playing WoW today isn't going to warp anyone back to the time where they got to play 12 hours a day after school, where they had no responsibilities. That's what they're nostalgic for; not some shit skinnerbox where you spam frostbolt on gnolls for hours. Classic WoW won't absolve these (now) adults of their responsibilities.

So, either they're disappointed when after 3 months they're still killing spiders in duskwood because they can only play 2-4 hours a day, or, what's more likely, they ignore their responsibilities and their lives get flushed down the drain for the second time. And I'll be here laughing.

You can't compare this to 80s music. 80s music isn't a skinnerbox designed to create addicts.

 

[Bester]

They're nostalgic for their youth, not WoW.

Citation needed. I can't talk about anyone but myself, but I'm not nostalgic about my youth, because my youth sucked. I liked WoW moderately at the time. I found it very popamole compared to older MMOs (your loot doesn't drop when you die? you don't lose a week worth of XP? what kind of teddy bear bullshit is this?), but it was still a fun game all in all. And in today's age of decadence, it can be a hell of a fine game.

I have my doubts it'll be as good as before, because the community changed. I made a post on reddit/wowclassic recently and received two "shut the fuck up you don't know what you're talking about" responses, which took me back, because I thought wowclassic reddit would be filled with adults. Maybe there's not enough adults to make this game's community sufficiently grown up. That's about the only thing that worries me.

 

[Don Peste]

They're nostalgic for their youth, not WoW.

I made a post on reddit/wowclassic recently and received two "shut the fuck up you don't know what you're talking about" responses, which took me back, because I thought wowclassic reddit would be filled with adults.

C'mon, one gets the same response here all the time!

No, that's probably typical reddit. But don't worry, as long as you get some friends to play with, or you find some new ones in-game, or maybe co-found the Codex Diversity Guild, you'll be fine.

 

[Whiny-Butthurt-Liberal]

Blizzard should announce "Classic" Blizzard, and make a Diablo sequel that is dark, gritty, atmospheric, and reasonably hardcore.

 

[Dawkinsfan69]

Citation needed. I can't talk about anyone but myself, but I'm not nostalgic about my youth, because my youth sucked. I liked WoW moderately at the time. I found it very popamole compared to older MMOs (your loot doesn't drop when you die? you don't lose a week worth of XP? what kind of teddy bear bullshit is this?), but it was still a fun game all in all. And in today's age of decadence, it can be a hell of a fine game.

I have my doubts it'll be as good as before, because the community changed. I made a post on reddit/wowclassic recently and received two "shut the fuck up you don't know what you're talking about" responses, which took me back, because I thought wowclassic reddit would be filled with adults. Maybe there's not enough adults to make this game's community sufficiently grown up. That's about the only thing that worries me.

You'd probably like retail WoW if you liked vanilla. It's really the same game..

What did u post on reddit that pissed them off, out of curiosity?

 

[Bester]

I hate retail WoW, I quit during Wotlk or Cata, I don't even remember. What really pissed me off was that you could do all raids in some kind of easy mode, and there was a difficult mode (mythic? or smth). But for me, the incentive was always to "see the content". And if everyone can see it in easy mode, then everyone wins, the challenges don't exist anymore, the game is ruined.
Also dungeon finders and all that crap. People started going into dungeons without saying a single word. And everyone AOEed. I hated it all and quit.

I raided very seriously in BC and... hated it (but also loved it).

There's a lot of problems associated with classic raiding - guilds and their toxicity, and their DKP systems, and it's almost like going to work: you're penalized for skipping it. That's all wrong. But that's a social construct on top of the game. I hope new, more relaxed guilds are made in the new Classic.

 

[Aildrik]

I hate retail WoW, I quit during Wotlk or Cata, I don't even remember. What really pissed me off was that you could do all raids in some kind of easy mode, and there was a difficult mode (mythic? or smth). But for me, the incentive was always to "see the content". And if everyone can see it in easy mode, then everyone wins, the challenges don't exist anymore, the game is ruined.
Also dungeon finders and all that crap. People started going into dungeons without saying a single word. And everyone AOEed. I hated it all and quit.

That is also my beef with where the game has gone over the years. I remember a time when doing UBRS in Vanilla, you would need to really coordinate your CC; poly, rogue spec with double sap; it was all important. Now its a literal sprint through the dungeons / AOE fest.

With regards to content, I had no problem knowing I would never see Naxx. Hell, our guild didn't make it past the first boss in AQ40 but we did clear BWL and it felt like an awesome achievement. Now you see it all for free. My only regret is playing all this time to finally defeat Sargeras and meet the Titans in person and it was largely a letdown.