Those bulletpoints sure sound like steep decline.
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KickStarter Queen's Wish: The Conqueror - the Jeff Vogel Kickstarter
- Thread starter oasis789
- Start date
Wait now... so you guys not only paid MORE for your preorder keys, but you also get them later than people who bought it on a discount? r00fles.
Why not? There's plenty of RPG Maker games that look great and have a great art direction, but even the stock assets hurt the eyes less than this mess. It's amazing how he's managed to make it look even worse than his earlier games, Geneforge with its snot coloured UI and the minimal aesthetics of Exile were far superior to this.
Mortmal
Arcane
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2009
- Messages
- 9,185
Everything he said is true there's no real character creation, you choose their looks and that's about all then allocate a few skill points in 3 tabs of 3X3 skills.. Incredibly limited and was really disappointed when i saw so few skills, it's quite insulting tbh. In a niche rpg i like to spend a good hour in character creation , trying builds this wont be the case here . The gear is customizable although and will likely be the only true way to advance . Then it plays like every other spiderweb games, the combat system is the same, good as usual , the fort system village claiming and reactivity of the world is nice.Not seen enough yet, but despite the unforgivable dumbing down , its pretty fun so far, wont refund.
Jeff "Tired Man" Vogel: not only is investing in better visuals and a soundtrack pointless and a waste of money, putting any effort into making a solid RPG system is also too much work for an old man who has been in the industry for 25 years and for whom things are so hard. So, so hard.
Ouch.
I mean... wtf.
Who is this going to appeal to anymore as an RPG?
The casual crowd will look at the graphics and say "no".
The hardcore gamers will look at the character system and say "no".
I'm not even going to get it at a discount if the character system remains that boring.
I mean... wtf.
Who is this going to appeal to anymore as an RPG?
The casual crowd will look at the graphics and say "no".
The hardcore gamers will look at the character system and say "no".
I'm not even going to get it at a discount if the character system remains that boring.
Aemar
Arcane
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2018
- Messages
- 6,075
I'm honestly surprised to see some of you here have actually expected Vogel to put at least some minimum creative effort into this game when, for example, the majority of the portraits have been made using the most rudimentary photo manipulation skills out there. ''Shovelware'' would be an understatement.
Last edited:
AdolfSatan
Arcane
- Joined
- Dec 27, 2017
- Messages
- 1,890
How comes Queen's Wish's avatars aren't already available as smilies in the codex? There's so much that can be expressed by them. Who do I have to tag for this to happen?
Lord_Potato
Arcane
Now installing: 115mb. That's roughly twice the size of Grimoire. Should I be able to get 1200 hours of playtime?
Regarding a soundtrack, I don't even understand why he doesn't grab from all the free music that's laying on internet (music that can be freely added to any game, with just a mention in the credits). I've played a little (my first Vogel game!), at least it doesn't waste your time (fast movement speed, no time wasted on animations). And I don't understand why he was always showing combat screenshots with the grids, it just look way better without it.
Terra
Cipher
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2016
- Messages
- 897
My favourite part is that Jeff was $1k short of the "professional sound design" stretch goal for his Kickstarter yet within seconds of starting Queen's Wish I'm assailed with an assortment of sounds from Avadon (and games further back than that). People have suggested for years that he should add some music to his games and this one was seemingly the perfect opportunity to do so with the upfront injection of cash, but seems Vogel's not really interested in changing the status quo.
I'd be genuinely intrigued about how much success someone who wasn't Vogel with an existing audience would find with his methods.
Correct_Carlo
Arcane
Haven't played yet, but I'm looking forward to it. Despite seeming dumbed down at first glance, it seems more like there is strategy and character building, it's just different and takes a bit longer to unfold. Randomizer over at the Spiderweb forums wrote a good summary of what the gameplay of the game is, especially in comparison to older Spiderweb games. I've given Vogel lots of shit for doing the same thing over and over, so I'm excited he's tried something new. Here is part of Randomizer's summary:
There's more here: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/24980-queens-wish-the-conqueror-resource/
Interesting that it seems to have a NG+ of sorts that generates a new world based on your actions in the last game.
What You've Seen Before
Some things in this game are based upon previous Spiderweb games:
The calendar with holiday effects from Avernum 1.
World map with Quick Travel from Avernum.
Augmentation of items from Geneforge and Avadon.
All characters go up in experience at the same time even if not being used from Avadon.
Experience from finding map locations from Avernum.
Can only have one summoned monster for each party member, but improves with caster's level from Avernum 5 onwards.
90% cap on resistances.
Blessing can be cast multiple times and is broken like in Exile. There is a 5 limit for buffs, curses, bleeding, and poison.
Back to additive effects or at least that's how they are shown on character pages.
Reputation from Geneforge, but this time there are 5 of them.
You can pick your position at the game's end from leisure to ruler.
Differences from Other Games
You can't farm experience by going back and killing respawned monsters. You only get experience from discovering new World Map locations, doing most quests although sometime you need to nag to get it, and a few other specific actions in certain locations.
You no longer have the four stats, but augments will give you the benefits that you used to get from those stats.
You can remove augmentations from items and move them to new items or sell them off for money.
Combat system is a bit different from other games with greater emphasis on using abilities to do more damage per attack.
There are only physical and magical attacks.
Reclaiming forts and building shops.
It's better to buy items from shops then finding them as loot in exploring.
Can only get rings, necklaces, and charms from found loot except a shielding band.
Some containers and their contents will be gone if you haven't emptied them before doing the boss fight and leaving the zone.
You start with healing potions and can get an alchemist to change them into other types that will refill when you are at a fort with an alchemy shop.
No trainers for abilities.
Biggest difference and here's why you want to finish the game, your decisions allow you to start the next Queen's Wish game with how the world exists from your actions instead of default choice.
Character Building
You can retrain any character in a fort after your meeting with Chief Miranda to recruit warriors. You can start with the three pre-generated characters or get generic Haven soldiers at Fort Haven. As you reclaim forts in the other lands you can get generic soldiers from each land with different cultural abilities to replace existing recruits.
There is no best party build, but some things make it easier than others like have a mix of physical and magical attackers. There are monsters that take much more damage from an attack type and you will want to have area effect abilities. Also monsters have different armor and evasions to attack types.
You will want to retrain characters during the game because in the endgame area certain abilities are nearly useless from monsters having high resistances to stun, mental attacks, and some curses.
You get no skill points past level 20 so that means 22 skill points at level 20. The game effectively caps character levels at 23 when you run out of ways to get significant experience to make level 24.
Some things in this game are based upon previous Spiderweb games:
The calendar with holiday effects from Avernum 1.
World map with Quick Travel from Avernum.
Augmentation of items from Geneforge and Avadon.
All characters go up in experience at the same time even if not being used from Avadon.
Experience from finding map locations from Avernum.
Can only have one summoned monster for each party member, but improves with caster's level from Avernum 5 onwards.
90% cap on resistances.
Blessing can be cast multiple times and is broken like in Exile. There is a 5 limit for buffs, curses, bleeding, and poison.
Back to additive effects or at least that's how they are shown on character pages.
Reputation from Geneforge, but this time there are 5 of them.
You can pick your position at the game's end from leisure to ruler.
Differences from Other Games
You can't farm experience by going back and killing respawned monsters. You only get experience from discovering new World Map locations, doing most quests although sometime you need to nag to get it, and a few other specific actions in certain locations.
You no longer have the four stats, but augments will give you the benefits that you used to get from those stats.
You can remove augmentations from items and move them to new items or sell them off for money.
Combat system is a bit different from other games with greater emphasis on using abilities to do more damage per attack.
There are only physical and magical attacks.
Reclaiming forts and building shops.
It's better to buy items from shops then finding them as loot in exploring.
Can only get rings, necklaces, and charms from found loot except a shielding band.
Some containers and their contents will be gone if you haven't emptied them before doing the boss fight and leaving the zone.
You start with healing potions and can get an alchemist to change them into other types that will refill when you are at a fort with an alchemy shop.
No trainers for abilities.
Biggest difference and here's why you want to finish the game, your decisions allow you to start the next Queen's Wish game with how the world exists from your actions instead of default choice.
Character Building
You can retrain any character in a fort after your meeting with Chief Miranda to recruit warriors. You can start with the three pre-generated characters or get generic Haven soldiers at Fort Haven. As you reclaim forts in the other lands you can get generic soldiers from each land with different cultural abilities to replace existing recruits.
There is no best party build, but some things make it easier than others like have a mix of physical and magical attackers. There are monsters that take much more damage from an attack type and you will want to have area effect abilities. Also monsters have different armor and evasions to attack types.
You will want to retrain characters during the game because in the endgame area certain abilities are nearly useless from monsters having high resistances to stun, mental attacks, and some curses.
You get no skill points past level 20 so that means 22 skill points at level 20. The game effectively caps character levels at 23 when you run out of ways to get significant experience to make level 24.
There's more here: http://spiderwebforums.ipbhost.com/topic/24980-queens-wish-the-conqueror-resource/
Interesting that it seems to have a NG+ of sorts that generates a new world based on your actions in the last game.
at least at least the reactivity will be good. really dissapointed in the character system , buti haven't played it yet. going in with kinda low expectation, but it might surprise me.
pls
pls
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2013
- Messages
- 255
I'm about 5 hours in and bitterly disappointed with what I've seen so far.
The sense of progression/character development is plain awful, and is Vogel's worst effort to date. Character creation involves allocating just 3 skill points at the start and 1 skill point at each level up to 3 unimaginative categories -- physical damage or magical damage or magical support. Each of these categories consists of just 12 skills, and even this number is further padded by the presence of passive skills that are mere percentage increases for the most part. Entire playstyles that were supported in Vogel's games as recent as Avadon 3 are nowhere to be found. For instance, the rogue class is entirely missing (no lockpicking either!), and there is also no way to explicitly specialize in a shield spec for melee. Perhaps there are prestige classes one unlocks later on, but I could find no mention of such in the game's promo materials, screenshots or trailers. So unless things change further into the game, there are only 3 basic classes, yet the game is explicitly designed around party sizes of 4. Such barebones character development wouldn't be out of place in a crpg-lite or even a mobile game, but it is particularly damning when compared to Vogel's past efforts with Avernum, Geneforge, and (even) Avadon.
I hoped this dumbed-down character building was at least partially offset by much more creative itemization, but even the itemization is not very different compared to past Vogel games. I'm also not yet convinced that the game's method of loot distribution will stay satisfying in the long run. While Vogel came through on his promise to reduce pointless looting, he's gone to the other extreme by relegating loot to just chests (generally following set piece fights) and vendors as if the game were a JRPG.
Elsewhere the game's structure so far has also proven repetitive -- NPCs repeatedly identify locations on the map that are filled with valuable resources, and the player has to clear out these areas of enemies to secure said resources. Players looking for a more organically flowing main quest or one that evokes a sense of adventure would be better served looking elsewhere. Each area does contain some sort of verbal confrontation with the area boss, but only once out of 4 such instances was I allowed to negotiate a non violent end despite picking a peaceful option.
Anyway, I'll give the game a few more hours to see if it can turn things around before I decide to shelve it for good. It's a pity that the game has such glaring flaws because I actually welcome some of the changes such as the passage of time playing an important role (as with Avernum 3), and combat consisting of less trash encounters and more strategic resource management compared to recent Vogel's releases.
The sense of progression/character development is plain awful, and is Vogel's worst effort to date. Character creation involves allocating just 3 skill points at the start and 1 skill point at each level up to 3 unimaginative categories -- physical damage or magical damage or magical support. Each of these categories consists of just 12 skills, and even this number is further padded by the presence of passive skills that are mere percentage increases for the most part. Entire playstyles that were supported in Vogel's games as recent as Avadon 3 are nowhere to be found. For instance, the rogue class is entirely missing (no lockpicking either!), and there is also no way to explicitly specialize in a shield spec for melee. Perhaps there are prestige classes one unlocks later on, but I could find no mention of such in the game's promo materials, screenshots or trailers. So unless things change further into the game, there are only 3 basic classes, yet the game is explicitly designed around party sizes of 4. Such barebones character development wouldn't be out of place in a crpg-lite or even a mobile game, but it is particularly damning when compared to Vogel's past efforts with Avernum, Geneforge, and (even) Avadon.
I hoped this dumbed-down character building was at least partially offset by much more creative itemization, but even the itemization is not very different compared to past Vogel games. I'm also not yet convinced that the game's method of loot distribution will stay satisfying in the long run. While Vogel came through on his promise to reduce pointless looting, he's gone to the other extreme by relegating loot to just chests (generally following set piece fights) and vendors as if the game were a JRPG.
Elsewhere the game's structure so far has also proven repetitive -- NPCs repeatedly identify locations on the map that are filled with valuable resources, and the player has to clear out these areas of enemies to secure said resources. Players looking for a more organically flowing main quest or one that evokes a sense of adventure would be better served looking elsewhere. Each area does contain some sort of verbal confrontation with the area boss, but only once out of 4 such instances was I allowed to negotiate a non violent end despite picking a peaceful option.
Anyway, I'll give the game a few more hours to see if it can turn things around before I decide to shelve it for good. It's a pity that the game has such glaring flaws because I actually welcome some of the changes such as the passage of time playing an important role (as with Avernum 3), and combat consisting of less trash encounters and more strategic resource management compared to recent Vogel's releases.
Carls Barkley
Safav Hamon
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2019
- Messages
- 173
Removed from wishlist.
tfw greedfall have deeper character creation than this
hell bovine
Arcane
Looks like he cut down heavily on character development in order to implement some kingdom sim elements. With the result that both game mechanics (character and kingdom building) look very barebones. I'll pass.
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2015
- Messages
- 1,875
Honestly in general I don't think that an RPG needs to support that *many* playstyles, in terms of basically combat loops and gameplay styles it's absolutely quality over quantity for me.
That doesn't mean it's okay to screw up because Jeff doesn't exactly have the most complicated systems known to mankind ,and he has done his gameplay loops so well in his past games for him to screw up this time is pretty dumb
That doesn't mean it's okay to screw up because Jeff doesn't exactly have the most complicated systems known to mankind ,and he has done his gameplay loops so well in his past games for him to screw up this time is pretty dumb
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2013
- Messages
- 12,803
He's actively trying to undercut whatever limited appeal his games had left
Darth Canoli
Arcane
I think he's trying to get into the dumb masses pockets but he forgot about the graphic whores + story fags things ...
Add anime graphics and transsexual vampires and it's a hit!
Reinhardt
Arcane
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Messages
- 29,726
fantadomat
Arcane
Fuck,bad timing. I am too busy to play it between greedfall and real life shit. Still will give it a try in a few days maybe.
Elwro
Arcane
YOU CAN WALK INTO CHESTS NOW
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