Best way to play Devil May Cry 1-3 on PC ?

[sullynathan]

There is nothing wrong with DMC3 & DMC4 camera either

 

[Sjukob]

So I played some DMC2... My thoughts ?

 

[DJOGamer PT]

We told you to skip it.
That game had a rocky development.
Kamiya wasn't allowed to work on it for... reasons?
And the guy who directed that project, must've had not a fucking clue what to do with it.
So some 4/3 months before Capcom launched the game, the guy either left or got fired and Itsuno was brought in to salvage what he could.

 

[Sjukob]

We told you to skip it.
That game had a rocky development.
Kamiya wasn't allowed to work on it for... reasons?
And the guy who directed that project, must've had not a fucking clue what to do with it.
So some 4/3 months before Capcom launched the game, the guy either left or got fired and Itsuno was brought in to salvage what he could.

I've never doubt that it would be crap. I've read some stuff about series development and players' experience before I started playing, so I knew about DMC1 camera and DMC2 being bad in advance, I just wanted to experience it for myself. By the time I got to that hydra boss (Jokatgulm) I've thought that it was time to quit, though I lasted 13 missions before I was done. Helicopter boss made me seriously question myself about how I spend my free time.

At least the soundtrack is pretty cool

 

[DJOGamer PT]

The choice of setting has also very good. Urban fantasy is just not something you see very often in games.

 

[Sjukob]

So I'm playing DMC3... What the fucking shit is that ?! How many years do you have to spend on this game to get a good idea of weapon properties, train muscle memory enough to do advanced combos and learn enemy behaviour ? I didn't think it was that bad, until I got a second pair of weapons that can be switched mid combo at almost any time. It's insane how much stuff the game offers to you, my head spins when I think about higher level play, where you have to dodge several enemies at once, look for opportunities to attack and land those fucking combos, the decision making requirements are crazy. But it's not just that, the execution is also very demanding, you have to press a lot of buttons pretty fast without messing up and some stuff requires you to be very precise, like jump cancels have very strict timing, make one mistake and you drop the combo. I've done a bit of practice and this is the best I can do so far.

Looks simple, but it's very easy to drop if you jump at the wrong time, as for aerial rave I don't know how people cancel the first hit of it, I can't do this.

This is actually pretty tiring, my forearm feels like it has got a nice workout, I thought that crazy combos required way too many button presses, so I reduced by them half. The game is pretty easy so far, although I've managed to die once, no, not on Cerberus, but on the first secret mission, for some reason enemies are way more agressive there, so I had to readjust. As for Cerberus, I've read that he is the first newbie killer, but I didn't even get a chance to learn his attacks, in fact I beat him without getting hit, I was just standing in the left corner and kept on shooting.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

How many years do you have to spend on this game to get a good idea of weapon properties, train muscle memory enough to do advanced combos and learn enemy behaviour ?

You'll get the hanged of it by the end of the game (you have to if you want to defeat Vergil).
Now the more advanced combos. Yeah... those take a good degree of experience.
With Dante, changing Styles on the fly is the most difficult and imperative skill to master. That's really what allows you to go cuh-razy.

It's insane how much stuff the game offers to you, my head spins when I think about higher level play, where you have to dodge several enemies at once, look for opportunities to attack and land those fucking combos, the decision making requirements are crazy.

Then you get lost in 4 and specially in 5, where you can carry all the weapons of the game at once and most weapons have alternative modes.

But it's not just that, the execution is also very demanding, you have to press a lot of buttons pretty fast without messing up and some stuff requires you to be very precise, like jump cancels have very strict timing, make one mistake and you drop the combo

Actually of these types of game's DMC is one of the more lenient ones.
Most combos in Bayonetta have a very brief time window to be executed, acompanied by a combo list big enough to be mistaken by a yellow pages phone book.
And in Ninja Gaiden there's a lot of attacks that require you to make a varied amount of inputs with both precision and speed.

It's IMO a quality DMC has over those games. The combos aren't many, so you can easily remember all of them and since they don't require complex inputs or timing, after a bit of practice they become 2nd nature.

This is actually pretty tiring, my forearm feels like it has got a nice workout

That's nothing. Wait until you play God Hand. That game grinds trough your controller and wrist tendons like a knife trough cheese.

The game is pretty easy so far ... As for Cerberus, I've read that he is the first newbie killer, but I didn't even get a chance to learn his attacks,

You did complete DMC1 on Hard with S rank in every mission. So you already have a good amount of experience with the series.
Cerberus was the first boss I ever fougth in the series and even in action games like these in general. So yeah... he is pretty tough for first timers.
Also in the western version of non-Special Edition DMC3, the hard mode is the normal because western audiences complained DMC2 was too easy. That's where this game got the tough as nails repution. However in the Special Edition, normal is normal.

 

[Machocruz]

So I'm playing DMC3... What the fucking shit is that ?! How many years do you have to spend on this game to get a good idea of weapon properties, train muscle memory enough to do advanced combos and learn enemy behaviour ? I didn't think it was that bad, until I got a second pair of weapons that can be switched mid combo at almost any time. It's insane how much stuff the game offers to you, my head spins when I think about higher level play, where you have to dodge several enemies at once, look for opportunities to attack and land those fucking combos, the decision making requirements are crazy. But it's not just that, the execution is also very demanding, you have to press a lot of buttons pretty fast without messing up and some stuff requires you to be very precise, like jump cancels have very strict timing, make one mistake and you drop the combo. I've done a bit of practice and this is the best I can do so far.

If you just want to beat the game or S rank it, not that much timed (quite a bit of time for the latter, but not years). To do what you see in combo videos, obviously a lot of practice. Those are people who played the game many, many, many times, read guides, discussed mechanics in specialized forums, etc. I know people who S ranked DMD and never used jump canceling. I did half the game like that before I knew jump canceling was a thing.

 

[Sjukob]

DJOGamer PT
It's just that I'm basically playing games like these for the first time. For a very long period I've been playing various RPGs and turn based games, I'm not used for fast paced action that is demanding to your reactions and inputing skills. I've played some classic shooters and beat'em'ups, but it's not the same.

Machocruz
Some people say that DMC isn't just about killing stuff, but also looking cool while doing so and I think that's a good point. Pretty sad to let such a system go to waste by not using advanced techniques.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

Looks simple, but it's very easy to drop if you jump at the wrong time, as for aerial rave I don't know how people cancel the first hit of it, I can't do this.

You do it by sliding your fingers between a & b rather than tap it. Assuming a is jump and b is style.


This guy does it around the 0:34 mark. Same thing regardless of your control set-up.

Also another thing to note is, Turbo mode. We only play in Turbo mode. Since you are able to do the combo I suggest you switch to turbo right away.

 

[Sjukob]

You do it by sliding your fingers between a & b rather than tap it. Assuming a is jump and b is style.
This guy does it around the 0:34 mark. Same thing regardless of your control set-up.

Yeah, but

I never use gamepads

Also it's not some elitist thing that I don't use gamepads, it's just that I don't understand how people even handle those. I once tried to play some game with it (probably TMNT 2003 or may be some other game, I can't remember already) and I had troubles with just moving around, I've never touched them since then.

Also another thing to note is, Turbo mode. We only play in Turbo mode. Since you are able to do the combo I suggest you switch to turbo right away.

Why ? I'm fine with the game's default speed.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

DJOGamer PT
I'm not used for fast paced action that is demanding to your reactions and inputing skills. I've played some classic shooters and beat'em'ups, but it's not the same.

While they migth require more from your twich skills, they are still action games as such knowing what's the best tool for a job and when to use is still the most important aspect to play efficiently.

Machocruz
Some people say that DMC isn't just about killing stuff, but also looking cool while doing so and I think that's a good point. Pretty sad to let such a system go to waste by not using advanced techniques.

That's what separates DMC from the other games, they have that extra layer to master that is playing both effectevly and stylishly.
It's because of that, coupled with great gameplay, that the series stayed alived for so long even after the huge dump that is DmC and the incomplete state of DMC4.

Also another thing to note is, Turbo mode. We only play in Turbo mode. Since you are able to do the combo I suggest you switch to turbo right away.

Why ? I'm fine with the game's default speed.

And you shouldn't play in turbo just yet.
Turbo Mode should be always left for the second playtrough, specially when you are already familiar with all the different moves and abilities.

 

[Machocruz]

Machocruz
Some people say that DMC isn't just about killing stuff, but also looking cool while doing so and I think that's a good point. Pretty sad to let such a system go to waste by not using advanced techniques.

What is this waste talk? Is your copy of DMC made of chicken? Will it spoil if you don't use all the techniques?

And you can look cool with the tools that the game presents front and center. There are no lack of them. If Capcom thought jump canceling and such was so important to look cool and master the game, then it would have been a skill unlock or covered in a tutorial at some point. No need to twist yourself into knots trying to do something the devs may have not even intended. But feel free.

 

[Sjukob]

I can finaly confirm that style switcher (aka DDMK) mod makes the game crash frequently. Guess I won't be getting into piano players league until I get to DMC4.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Never had any problems like that with it.
Just activavte the mod before loading a save file (never during gameplay) and don't use it if you are going to play with Vergil.

 

[Sjukob]

Never had any problems like that with it.
Just activavte the mod before loading a save file (never during gameplay) and don't use it if you are going to play with Vergil.

I haven't touched it since mission 2, so it just stays enabled. Had 3 crashes during mission 5, just like the others. As for settings, I did not tweak anything besides style switching and button mashing requirements for crazy combos.

EDIT: Also there's that issue where not every style move works.

 

[Sjukob]

DJOGamer PT
Dude, can you tell me which version of DDMK do you use ? I have a feeling that some of them might me more stable than the others.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

I believe I have it installed ever since I bought my Steam copy back in late December.
Is your copy pirated or on Steam?
I ask this because before I bougth it, I had a fit-girl copy of the game. And the DDMK mod didn't work because of that (the reddit post I saw the mod in specifically mentioned the steam copy).

EDIT:
Found the reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DevilMayCry/comments/a3m8yk/ddmk_0998/

Apparentely version 0.998

 

[Sjukob]

I believe I have it installed ever since I bought my Steam copy back in late December.
Is your copy pirated or on Steam?
I ask this because before I bougth it, I had a fit-girl copy of the game. And the DDMK mod didn't work because of that (the reddit post I saw the mod in specifically mentioned the steam copy).

EDIT:
Found the reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/DevilMayCry/comments/a3m8yk/ddmk_0998/

Apparentely version 0.998

Tried it, the game no longer crashes but still bugs out. After some time of playing enemy spawns become broken, which leads to a lesser amount of demons appearing, also bosses health bars disappear. All of these (no matter the mod version) only happen with style switching being activated, without it everything runs fine.

And yes, I pirated it. After I playing Divinity OS 2 I'm not buying anything before trying it in advance. The deal is crappy anyway, DMC1 doesn't even run on my PC without SDE emulation, DMC2 is a unfinished piece of shit and only DMC3 is fine. Additionaly the port itself is lazily done and they charge way too much for this, the said DOS2 was cheaper at release.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

And yes, I pirated it. After I playing Divinity OS 2 I'm not buying anything before trying it in advance. The deal is crappy anyway, DMC1 doesn't even run on my PC without SDE emulation, DMC2 is a unfinished piece of shit and only DMC3 is fine. Additionaly the port itself is lazily done and they charge way too much for this, the said DOS2 was cheaper at release.

Like I said I also had problems with it when my copy was a pirated one. That's probably the same case here.
Anyway, you didn't enjoy DOS2?

 

[Sjukob]

Anyway, you didn't enjoy DOS2?

I'm not touching any Larian game ever again.

Yes, it was bad. The first game was very flawed, but had a lot of potential, so I bought into Swen's bullshit about how they were going to improve the sequel. I purchased the game as soon as it was available and finished it 2 times in a row, oh boy, I really liked my first time. I made a series of posts in DOS2 thread about my progression on first and second playthoughs, nothing impressive really. I was hyped and blinded, the thoughts of game's issues didn't even appear in my head until my second playthrough was half done, back then I also had a lot more free time to play, so I was getting through the game pretty quickly. But after it was finished, it suddenly got to me that I was eating shit the whole time. You might call it retardation, autism or whatever, but it wasn't the first time something similar happened to me, all in all I spent 140 hours on that game. After it I made a series of posts in DOS2 thread where I called the game bad and attempted to describe it's flaws, I say attempted, because I wasn't in a right condition to think straight. I didn't feel like raging about it on codex, so my posts do not contain anything extreme, but they are pretty messy. In reality my ass was on fire for about a month, whenever my mind wasn't occupied I was thinking something along these "How could I've been so dumb ? Why did I do that ? Fuck DOS2 and fuck Larian", I even talked about it to my real life buddies, who don't play video games and had no idea what that was about. There was a moment where I finaly snapped, it happened on discord (not the codex group) where some guy argued with me that DOS2 is actually good, my keyboard had to withstand that autistic typing batalia for something like 2 hours. To this day I haven't even touched POE, but I guess for me it was similar to what codex was going through after it's release, eventually I let it go. And think of it what you will, but it would please me if Larian goes bankrupt, so people (especially indie developers) don't get wrong ideas about how to make an RPG.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

When I first played it I loved the game - specially how many different way there's were to escape the fort.
That first time I played for around 13 hours but then droped because by the time I fougth Alexander I couldn't bear the flaws of the systems. The armour and initiative systems specially pissed me off for how stupid and restrictive they were.
Which is something I still don't understand how could they've messed up, as the 1st Divinity didn't have such dumb design decisions as far as I remenber.

Very recentely I installed the Definitive version and download a bunch of mods to fix the gameplay mechanics. And I am having genuine fun with the game, and can't see any glaring problems with it so far.
I think I'll even make a thread about the mods I use.

I've played it straigth for a week, and I am now in the ship figth (against Dallis). I took a break so to not get burnout, and I am now completing my 2nd of DMC5 in SoS difficulty, then I'll get back to Divinity.

Does the game content go downhill after Fort Joy?
I am specially curious if they still mantain that level of freedom of approach you have in the Joy.

 

[Dedicated_Dark]

can't see any glaring problems with it so far.

Relevant.

Mostly writing is utter shit.

 

[Sjukob]

Very recentely I installed the Definitive version and download a bunch of mods to fix the gameplay mechanics. And I am having genuine fun with the game, and can't see any glaring problems with it so far.
I think I'll even make a thread about the mods I use.

I've played it straigth for a week, and I am now in the ship figth (against Dallis). I took a break so to not get burnout, and I am now completing my 2nd of DMC5 in SoS difficulty, then I'll get back to Divinity.

Does the game content go downhill after Fort Joy?
I am specially curious if they still mantain that level of freedom of approach you have in the Joy.

Don't know which mod you've installed, but in vanilla you eventually face the problem of RNG loot and stat bloat. After certain point stats on items increase by a lot per level, so you will have to go to merchants (and there will be many of them) each time your party levels up and check if your items can be replaced by better ones and I mean every fucking item on every party member, have you been paying attention to how many item slots each character has ? And you have to do it, because enemy parameters also rise significantly. Also your party will be strong enough that almost every fight will be turned into repetition of the same actions, even for the stronger enemies, doesn't help that skills are so unbalanced. When I was playing the game I thought that there were only 2 challenging fights - the first time you encounter big voidwoken and the first Alexander battle, both happen in the first chapter and after that it only gets easier.

As for freedom, second act - Reaper's coast is the biggest and the most open area in the game, but it's also very level gated, so you're likely to feel that you move on rails, additionally it doesn't have consistent area design and looks like a theme park. And yes, it only goes downhill after Fort Joy, especially writing. After second act the game tanks completely and just puts you into corridors (not really, but very close) with fat mobs and bosses, but it doesn't matter because your characters are overpowered anyway and last chapter is just an unfinished mess.

This is my experience with release version, obviously, it's not the complete list of issues I faced while playing. I have no idea if they fixed them with patches or if there are mods that do so, don't bother telling me about them, I don't care.

 

[DJOGamer PT]

Mostly writing is utter shit.

Writing is one of the lowest priorities I have when asserting an RPG's quality.

What I really seek in an RPG is this:

-Are the various systems and mechincs well designed synchrony? Do they meaningfully contribute to the overall experience?

-Do I have to thoughtfully consider how I am going to construct my character(s)? Do those decisions affect how my playstyle will be? How distinct are those builds and their playstyles?

-Do the activities/obstacles/quests have multiple ways of solving them that support those various playstyles? Are those different paths all also distinct in challenge (a quest about stealing something should be easier to a Thief like class but more difficult for the other playstyles)?

-Is the design of enemies, items, abilities and quests as well though out as the gameplay? Is the level design well realised and their exploration fun and intriguing?

-Does the game maintain this level of quality and challenge consistently from beggining to end?


If it all these boxes are checked, then it's a great RPG IMO regardless of how shit the rest migth be.

Then comes worldbuilding, presentation (graphics + audio) and only then writing.

And to be honest I am not a very good judge on writing (but even if I were it still wouldn't be a priority to me). The only thing I ask of the writing is for it to be consistent, to the point and not cumbersome. My favourite examples are Deus Ex and Morrowind - quests when given are short, to the point and have enough hints/directions for the player to work trough; a thug talks like a thug and a cultured man like a man of culture; very few people will talk to you extensenvly about heavy hitting topics, and the few that do, do so in a appropriate context (and only delve further if the player seeks to); the character give the impression to be immersed in the game world, but their dialogues aren't dense with lore terms/concepts (I think lore is best used like a spice, a small pinch of it is enough to gave flavour; however most cRPG's seem to think making a thick mountain that completely ruins the dish, is the best way to go).

In DOS2 the first point was really bad (but not as broken as in Skyrim where the only way to fix it would be to redo it from the ground up). I droped the game because of that. The 2nd and 5th point I didn't know how to answer since I was still in Fort Joy. But the 3rd and 4th point were pretty as far as I could see so that's why I decided to try again with some mods.