Incline Elminage Gothic (former Japan only dungeon crawler)

[aweigh]

After realizing I can't romance characters in Wizardry Empires II I decided to play Gothic instead. So I'm at party creation when I see this:

What is a HOTlet and how do I summon a female one IRL?

Also, is this party acceptable. It's fine if it's not the power gamer's dream, I just want to be sure I won't have to create a new party four hours in.

Valkyrie
Samurai
Hunter
Mage --> Summoner
Alchemist
Bishop

Looks good.

To answer your query: Hotlets have the highest Agility so they make good Thieves and Ninjas, because the class abilities of Hiding in Shadows, Inspecting or Disarming chests, lock-picking, detecting secrets are tied to Agility, and also generic conventions like Turn Order are also related to Agility.

Contrary to conventional wisdom I found in some of my later playthroughs that Hotlet spell-casters were useful because they had a better Turn Order, generally speaking, than Elven ones. It depends on what kind of party priority/strategy you want to aim for.

Samurai, Bishops and Alchemists are all tried-and-true choices and you can never go wrong with them, nor with that Mage. Hunter is a very unique class and they can be rewarding, and you will also find many great and exceptional bows later on (not so many in the beginning though). As for the Valkyrie, well their spears are amongst the best weapons in the game and they are M-ranged, which means you can use them from the front to deal big damage or place them in the back where they can still deal a lot of damage but are safer, and there are indeed many, many, MANY great spears in the game. They are similar to Lords in what they can do but the Lord has a special class ability that allows them to grant Status Effect Resistance to the other members of the party (they learn this ability upon reaching level 26 or so if I remember correctly), and this can be HUGELY beneficial!!! Strictly speaking you can't go wrong with a valkyrie, BUT that said I *personally* prefer a Lord because of their eventual ability to protect the party from status effects.

Again, depends on what you're aiming for with the party setup, though. Besides, nothing is set in stone, and levels can be gained very quickly.

EDIT: A good race for Hunters is the Werebeast race because Werebeasts have an innate chance to poison enemies and this applies through standard attacks, of which the Hunter's Long-range bow attacks are part of; the drawback is that Werebeasts cannot equip anything made of Silver.

 

[Haplo]

I will respectfully disagree with the Valkyrie vs Lord assessment. Lord gains new levels (therefore attacks bonus, new spells, HP and so on) at an even slower pace. M-range of Valkyrie spears is a HUGE advantage, as you can reach (and usually instagib) enemy casters in the back.
And well, the Status Resistance that the Lord bestows grows at a glacial pace. It's really only relevant late post-game IMO - and even then mostly if you plan to grind a lot. I think it doesn't stack with resist items or racial abilities?

I have one more comment regarding the Bishop. It's another glacial class. I'd recommend you to start as a Cleric or Mage and only then switch to Bishop. Potentially even Cleric->Alchemist->Summoner (like 3 spell levels or so)->Mage>Bishop. That progression will STILL learn all mage and cleric spells MUCH sooner then a pure class Bishop would.

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

I thought the Bishop was the only one with Identify. Can't see how I can afford not to have him at the start when money is still an issue.

 

[Dorateen]

Can't see how I can afford not to have him at the start when money is still an issue.

There is a pre-made Bishop sitting in the tavern, or you can make your own. Swap him into the party when you get back to the castle with your latest haul and let him ID the stuff you found. Part of the fun of Elminage Gothic is not just the six characters you go out dungeon delving with, but also how they interact with other characters developed and parked in town.

 

[glass blackbird]

Bishops get better at identifying as they level, that's true; however, they level really slowly and are basically a drag on any party you put them in. So it's tricky.

 

[Max Damage]

Max Damage

Best way to play the game is with a keyboard. Keyboard-only and you breeze through menus. A gamepad is simply a small keyboard with less buttons.

I recommend mapping directional inputs to WASD, cancel to 'C', confirmation of a command to Numpad's 'Enter' key so you can rest left arm on WASD and right arm on right edge of the keyboard.

Rest of the buttons to taste.

EDIT: The game really is worth putting up with, my man. If you're hankering for traditional party-building and dungeoneering, E: Gothic is a revelation. It's one of the rare games that actually gets better the more you play, with later dungeons increasingly more rewarding, and the party building and itemization increasingly more satisfying to manage.

Wait til you get addicted to enchanting your gear! It's thoroughly addictive. One of the best gear enchantment (and item crafting) systems around, I would spend up to 1 hour sometimes just agonizing over what to enchant and what to enchant shit with, trying to maximize my Ore usage.

As said before I play on keyboard without mouse, I agree with you but please read slower. I have clocked over 20 hours and I just can't get over how much of redundant clicking I have to do for most basic stuff. For me the game started out alright and then became unbearable because it doesn't seem like the controls were playtested at all, which for me pretty much nullifies all good things because I am constantly annoyed and taken out of the experience for reasons beyond my control. I really can't remember any blobber with worse controls that I played, for this reason I dropped the game.

 

[aweigh]

And well, the Status Resistance that the Lord bestows grows at a glacial pace. It's really only relevant late post-game IMO

Yes, I plan my Elminage: Gothic parties around being good for Ibag's Tower. That's when the real game begins. In Ibag's Tower I would mostly prefer to have a Lord over a Valkyrie for protection purposes, but that's a personal preference. Valkyrie with post-game M-hand spear and Sub-hand little spear is a wrecking ball of destruction... buuuut I still prefer having protection over offense.

lol I'm the kind of guy who will make their Alchemist dual-wield Cursed Shields just for the extra -2 AC.

 

[aweigh]

As said before I play on keyboard without mouse, I agree with you but please read slower. I have clocked over 20 hours and I just can't get over how much of redundant clicking I have to do for most basic stuff. For me the game started out alright and then became unbearable because it doesn't seem like the controls were playtested at all, which for me pretty much nullifies all good things because I am constantly annoyed and taken out of the experience for reasons beyond my control. I really can't remember any blobber with worse controls that I played, for this reason I dropped the game.

I'm sorry Max Damage but my eyes glaze over when someone starts talking like a fucking retard and complaining about dumb baby shit.

I can't help you. No one can.

 

[Max Damage]

Get off sugar and take your meds then, maybe you'll stop overreacting after that. And I didn't ask for your or anyone else's help, but you wouldn't know since you didn't read in first place.

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

There is a pre-made Bishop sitting in the tavern, or you can make your own.

Ended up switching my bishop's class for a cleric. I thought it would be a hassle to identify items this way, but so far it isn't so bad. I guess later on I'll pay in the shop, but for now it's fine.

Got stuck at the first level of Guatella Grotto because I didn't have a thief to spot hidden doors. I guess hunters are worse at spotting them, because in Original my thief always warned about them. I like when there are hidden doors for the player to find by deduction, but the game should warn about them when entering the floor. At least when it comes to main quest doors, the rest it's fine to leave for the player to find on its own.

Is there some mod to speed up fights? The menu options aren't good enough when some fights are trivial.

 

[Haplo]

Detection will improve with level and stats (luck?). When stuck, you can try blindly, of course.

Identifying at the shop is never great, as it costs as much, as the item is worth. Still often need to use that service.

You can eventually multiclass into a bishop. I just don't recommend starting as one.

 

[glass blackbird]

Yes, definitely having a Bishop around is helpful, but it's better to just have one at the Inn and maybe take him out for power leveling every once in a while, but the slow leveling combined with slow spell growth means they will be useless in combat for a long time, and you'll take longer to get access to the helpful utility spells.

If you want to then eventually you can switch one of your spellcasters over to Bishop (since their spells will stay learned) or just bring the inn bishop along as part of the main group.

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

Pushed too far without Mahama and got my entire team beheaded by a roaming squad of Isis.
Good stuff.

 

[Dorarnae]

valkyrie dmg is <3
they make fight with some monster at the end much easier.

 

[Jason Liang]

For me the most efficient starting party is:
brawler (hotlet)
valkyrie (human or whatever)
cleric (elf)
mage (elf)
mage (elf)
summoner (elf)

My rationale is that there's little or no reason to class change your 2-3 frontline fighters since their role is to attack, they have little use for spells. BUT since you aren't classchanging your frontline characters, there's little reason to start them as a normal race, you are far better off with a devilish race. So there's little reason to begin with a Fighter, Samurai, Lord, Ninja or Thief since they will be inferior to a Devilish Fighter, Samurai, Lord, Ninja or Thief that you can make later. However, you DO need some frontline characters in your starting party, hence brawler, valkyrie and cleric. You need the brawler to help your summoner capture summmons. The cleric is a capable 3rd tank for the first dungeon. The Valk is a good character for the early parts since eventually you can move her to the back as needed. The three elves will end up being your back spellcasters- one ends up as a summoner, one a hunter and the third can be a bard or whatever. The summoner learns 3 levels of summoning and provides a thief for the early dungeons, then class changes to a spare 4th backrow character (perhaps a 2nd Hunter) for situations where a full summoner is useless.

 

[Haplo]

Eh, I'd not count on much brawler support in capturing monsters till late game. Trying to arrange the turn order and hoping for combos.. that usually took more time then was worth - before those 95% Summon Resist mobs, whose level allows them to roll 3 times.

But yeah, I fully support monster adventurer parties - particularly for martials, like you mention.

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

I found a Crested Robe:

This armor has + signs near the Thief, Cleric, Magic and Fighter categories. Does it mean that enemies in those categories do less damage to the character who wears the robe, or does it mean the character does more damage to the enemies? I understand how it works in regard to weapons but I'm not sure how armors fit in.

 

[Dorateen]

Should be extra damage against those creature/class types, right? I think I remember a pair of mantis gauntlets, or something like that, which did more damage against Insects.

 

[Haplo]

Late game be careful not to overwrite higher bonuses of this type (for example from weapons) with this. I remember this was an issue sometimes.

 

[aweigh]

Yes ^

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

When changing character class, Does going back to a class I already know leaves me with the level I left, with spells at 9 points and with ex skills, or do I go back to level 1?
To clarify, If I have a level 20 mage, and I change it to Summoner and then back to mage, does my character end up as a level 20 mage or level 1?

 

[Haplo]

Level 1.

Though when you leave a caster class, you do remember all known spells and keep up to 3 spell slots per unlocked spell level. Note if you have less then 3 spellslots, you will eventually open 3 anyway as you level in the new class (so it's fine to class change when you earn your first slot from level 7).
That is unless the new class progresses the spellcasting of your former class - then you keep all spell slots. Examples:
Mage/Cleric <-> Bishop
Mage <-> Samurai
Cleric <-> Valkyrie/Lord
Alchemist -> Hunter (for some mysterious reason)

 

[ebPD8PePfC]

Hmmm... I have a cleric, alchemist and mage. Which should I switch to summoner? Thinking about post game content, which is least useful? Or should I get a new character entirely?
Also, the wiki suggests summoners require a brawler to ensure successful contracts. Is this true?

 

[Haplo]

Depends.
I'd say that a pure mage is the least necessary. Although if kept pure, he's capable of some serious nuking with his Mastery bonuses.
Then again, an alchemist could be a good candidate - if you have a spare one dedicated to crafting.

Cleric is also okay if you have backup - some lord or valkyrie for example. In general you should have 2 characters with access to cleric spells IMO.
Note that an actual cleric's Immolarati spell (operates at full power only on clerics) can be very helpful late post-game.

IMO casters here are best made as versatile as possible - opposite to most other games, keep martials mostly pure (to grow attack bonuses, number of attacks and special skills, if they have them - like AC growth (brawler, ninja), hide, detection and disarm chances (thiefs, ninjas, hunters, Bard's), decapitation chance (ninja), parry&riposte chance (samurai), status resistances (lord) - and heavily multiclass casters.

Personally I liked to replace most martials with superior monster adventurers. Only Valkyrie stayed the same from the start. Can't really multiclass monster adventurers, as they loose their traits then.

Though you might want a dedicated alchemist for crafting, as that also improves with alchemist level.

For example characters like cleric -> alchemist -> mage -> bishop work very well.
And another character multiclassed at the same time from opposite classes to "switch" and fill the gaps.
For example mage -> cleric -> alchemist -> summoner

Alchemist -> hunter is also a very sweet combo due to preserving all spells on martial, particularly as werebeast (poison attack to trigger hunter pursuit).

Edit:
And no, IMO brawler is not necessary for summoning. Setting up turn order (summon attempt needs to be right after brawler combo), ensuring the enemies survive and hoping for a rare, successful 4-hit combo is tedious AF and more trouble then worth.

At least till you start to target 95% summon resist enemies - generally floor bosses and post-game mobs. Then he kinda becomes necessary. But you don't actually have to. 80% summon resist enemies are doable without brawler and there are some nice ones late game. And, well, for me one floor boss was enough.

But the brawler is an extremely strong martial character. An offensive powerhouse, early on he lags behind in defense and takes a lot of damage - but late game his ability to grow AC with level far outmaches regular armor worn by fighters. Bit of a one trick pony, though.

 

[Matador]

The game suffers a bit for the alchemist being the only class able to craft equipment. They become almost necessary.

How hard is to mod the game to permit 2 classes more to have this feature?