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Decline Golden, Silver, and Modern Age of RPGs

LeStryfe79

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Here's how I break it down...

Golden Age starts with Akalabeth (1979)

Silver Age starts with Diablo (1996)

Modern Age starts with Fallout 3 (2008)
 
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Lilura

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Renaissance > All.

1996-2002: Diablo, Daggerfall, Fallout, Fallout 2, Arcanum, Wizardry 8, Baldur's Gate, Baldur's Gate II, Diablo II, Planescape: Torment, Jagged Alliance 2, Neverwinter Nights, Gothic, Morrowind, System Shock 2 and Deus Ex.
 

Sigourn

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Golden Age: heavily inspired by D&D.
Silver Age: a switch towards more C&C based RPGs.
Modern Age: "genre" with RPG elements, RPGs where the focus is on the world as opposed to the mechanics, massive popularization of the genre.

Most Renaissance RPGs (i.e. 2010s and on) appear to be nothing more than updated Golden Age and Silver Age RPGs. Basically a throwback to the old ages where RPGs were heavily focused on mechanics and C&C, which lends well to their inferior budgets.
 

octavius

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Stone Age starts with Rogue or whatever was the first Plato RPG about 1975
Bronze Age starts with Temple of Apshai, released before Akalabeth.
Silver Age starts with Ultima IV in 1985.
Golden Age starts with Dungeon Master in late 1987.
First Dark Age was 1994-1996.
Renaissance starts with Fallout in 1997 (or Diablo in late 1996 if you consider it a "real" CRPG).
 
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Dorateen

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That late 90's period also includes the Realms of Arkania series and 3DO Might & Magic installments. It was a harmonious time, when first person dungeon crawlers could still coexist with isometrics. New millennium started all right, but swiftly went downhill.
 

GinsengSamurai

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That late 90's period also includes the Realms of Arkania series and 3DO Might & Magic installments. It was a harmonious time, when first person dungeon crawlers could still coexist with isometrics. New millennium started all right, but swiftly went downhill.

I'm curious to your thought process. Do you think RPG's seemingly feel they have gone downhill because:

1. We started RPG's when they required a lot of our own imagination combined with the game's narrative, just to see games slowly evolve over the years. Then having high expectations through years of experiencing such in-depth gaming, we are numbed out by the experience of modern games?

OR

2. The modern games have generally deterred from a good narrative and devolved into special effects and cliche story telling, but lack the freshness of our early experiences?

Or something else?

LeStryfe79 said:
Here's how I break it down...

I wish I could add to this list, as I unfortunately only got my first PC in 1993. Prior to that, I had the C64. Though I would say if following Octavius' list, I would def agree with Fallout for the Renaissance in my somewhat limited experience.

Lilura said:

By the way, apparently you and I share the same IP address and people think you and I are the same person. o_o
 

Dorateen

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That late 90's period also includes the Realms of Arkania series and 3DO Might & Magic installments. It was a harmonious time, when first person dungeon crawlers could still coexist with isometrics. New millennium started all right, but swiftly went downhill.

I'm curious to your thought process. Do you think RPG's seemingly feel they have gone downhill because:

After 2003's Temple of Elemental Evil, computer role-playing games moved further and further from their pen and paper heritage. Design fully shifted from focus on the player's party to single character special snowflakes, and cinematic presentation. Less emphasis on text and ruleset driven numbers, and yes imagination, and more on graphics and voice acting. The very notion of making an RPG that runs more like a CGI movie is an antithesis to the hobby.
 
Unwanted

LAO

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In my opinion is something more like this:


Dark Age (1990-1997): Wizardry 7,Fallout,Betrayal at Krondor,Darklands...

Incline Age (1996-1999): Diablo,Baldurs Gate,Ultima 9: Ascension,Final fantasy 8...

Decline Age (1999-2002): Planetscape Torment,Morrowind,Baldurs Gate 2,Arcanum...

Second Incline Age (2002-2004): Dungeon Siege,The bard tale 2004,Fable,World of Warcraft...

Second Decline age (2004-2010): Vampire the Masquerade bloodlines,Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 the Sith Lords,Neverwinter Nights 2 Mask of Betrayer,Fallout New vegas...

Golden Age (2010-2018): The elder Scrolls v Skyrim,Fallout 4,Dragon age 2,Mass effect Andromeda,Assassins creed Odyssey...
 

Martyr

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In my opinion is something more like this:


Dark Age (1990-1997): Wizardry 7,Fallout,Betrayal at Krondor,Darklands...

Incline Age (1996-1999): Diablo,Baldurs Gate,Ultima 9: Ascension,Final fantasy 8...

Decline Age (1999-2002): Planetscape Torment,Morrowind,Baldurs Gate 2,Arcanum...

Second Incline Age (2002-2004): Dungeon Siege,The bard tale 2004,Fable,World of Warcraft...

Second Decline age (2004-2010): Vampire the Masquerade bloodlines,Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic 2 the Sith Lords,Neverwinter Nights 2 Mask of Betrayer,Fallout New vegas...

Golden Age (2010-2018): The elder Scrolls v Skyrim,Fallout 4,Dragon age 2,Mass effect Andromeda,Assassins creed Odyssey...

that's some really nice trolling there, mate :salute:
 

LeStryfe79

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Also, in case, people don't know..

Golden Age = Original Age
Silver Age = Next Age
Modern Age = Where we are today

I'm mostly taking this from comic books. Comics are usually divided Superman(1938), Flash(1956), and Watchmen(1986)

Also, the whole idea of CRPG renaissance is dumb since early and mid 90's had a lot of classic CRPG's.
 

octavius

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Also, in case, people don't know..

Golden Age = Original Age
Silver Age = Next Age
Modern Age = Where we are today

I'm mostly taking this from comic books. Comics are usually divided Superman(1938), Flash(1956), and Watchmen(1986)

Also, the whole idea of CRPG renaissance is dumb since early and mid 90's had a lot of classic CRPG's.

The common definition is:
the period when a specified art, skill, or activity is at its peak.
 

buffalo bill

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golden age = pre-language, humans entertain themselves with tribal warfare instead of frivolous games
silver age = pre-computers, humans entertain themselves with abstractions of tribal warfare like sports and tabletop games
modern age = post-computers, humans entertain themselves with abstractions of abstractions of tribal warfare, like cRPGs
 

mondblut

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Stone Age - before 1985
Bronze Age - 1985-1988
High Antiquity - 1989-1993
Dark Age - 1994-1996
Renaissance - 1997-1999
Early Modern - 1999-2002
Kali-yuga - 2003 onwards
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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Stone Age - 1970s to early 1980s
Bronze Age - early 1980s to late 80s
Iron Age - late 80s to mid 1990s
Golden Age - late 90s to early 2000s
The Cataclysm - mid 2000s to early 2010s
The Enlightenment - early 2010s onwards

Also, in case, people don't know..

Golden Age = Original Age
Silver Age = Next Age
Modern Age = Where we are today

I'm mostly taking this from comic books. Comics are usually divided Superman(1938), Flash(1956), and Watchmen(1986)

Also, the whole idea of CRPG renaissance is dumb since early and mid 90's had a lot of classic CRPG's.

Comic books is a silly comparison. The naming of ages for comic books represents sales numbers combined with nostalgia and second hand collectibles values. There is virtually zero comparison between the cRPG genre and the comic book industry.

While there is some nostalgia for the older cRPGs, computer ownership was low and cRPGs were a niche within a niche. Only in the late 90s did both computers and the internet become a mainstream activity & this is evidenced in the numbers of sales & marked success of Diablo as the great game changer for both popularity and era. For the next six years cRPGs were both the primary triple A game and the time when cRPGs reached the widest audience, culminating in the renown GOTY of Baldur's Gate 2.

One could argue the golden age is actually now in this regard with games like Skyrim, Dark Souls & Witcher 3 being regular hugely popular iconic games that are so popular even dullards know their name, these, however, are not really cRPGs in the p&p tradition but are derivatives.

No matter how much you desperately want to apply your own personal prestige to something, its not a Golden Age without wide sales numbers. The Golden Age of cinema was the 1930s- 1940s, not because that decade had the best movies, but because every man & his dog went to the movies & that was the time when cinema numbers were at their peak.

If it was just a matter of age then the 'Golden Age' of comics would have started in the late 19th Century:

image.jpg


As you can see, the art style is much more refined than the later quickly made superhero comics. The eras you refer to only relate to the super-hero genre, which only really started with Superman, even though fantastical characters had existed long before that:

fb20.jpg


In the UK, a comic book entitled Comic Cuts:
COMIC_CUTS_1923.jpg


Ran from 1890 to 1953 & had over 3000 issues & yet no-one remembers it today & people of this generation would lament the 'popamole' nature of 'modern comics' (post-1930s) that were all pictures & hardly any words. The paragraph-based comic strips finally dying out in the 1960s. The Golden Age of British Comics is considered the 1930s because reading comics back then was the kid's television or, later, their internet.
 
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Zed Duke of Banville

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Incline: 1975-1986
Golden Age: 1987-1994
Decline: 1995-2002
Wasteland: 2003-2011
Semi-Hemi-Demi-Incline: 2012-Present

Note that Incline means CRPGs are improving and Decline means CRPGs are worsening, but the best period is the Golden Age and the worst period is the Wasteland.
 

Kyl Von Kull

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
That late 90's period also includes the Realms of Arkania series and 3DO Might & Magic installments. It was a harmonious time, when first person dungeon crawlers could still coexist with isometrics. New millennium started all right, but swiftly went downhill.

I'm curious to your thought process. Do you think RPG's seemingly feel they have gone downhill because:

1. We started RPG's when they required a lot of our own imagination combined with the game's narrative, just to see games slowly evolve over the years. Then having high expectations through years of experiencing such in-depth gaming, we are numbed out by the experience of modern games?

OR

2. The modern games have generally deterred from a good narrative and devolved into special effects and cliche story telling, but lack the freshness of our early experiences?

Or something else?

This is no mystery. Before the turn of the millennium, RPGs were a niche genre designed for a niche audience: assholes like us. But then BioWare and Bethesda had some major successes (Baldur’s Gate 2, KoTOR, and Morrowind) that proved there was a mass audience for a certain kind of RPG. Really two kinds: the story heavy romance simulator that practically plays itself and the Bethesda hiking simulator. Over time, they doubled down on these popular elements.

Publishing is a business. When the industry realized you could make a fortune selling dumbed down console compatible RPGs, they increasingly went all in. Why not? In the immortal words of Willie Sutton, it’s where the money is. But making a game that appeals to BOTH a mass audience and the niche audience of RPG enthusiasts is VERY difficult. Off the top of my head there’s KoTOR2 and New Vegas that managed to thread the needle (I don’t know whether it’s fair to include MOTB—the NWN2 platform feels more like a weird intermediate stage—almost the missing link between old school CRPGs and modern ones), but they did so in spite of their lackluster gameplay.

Thanks to crowdfunding, we now have kind of a two-track market. You have old school CRPGs like Kingmaker built for us and you have modern RPGs like everything from BioWare, Bethesda and CDPR that are built for everyone else.

The thing is, it’s not that developers got worse, they just started having very different priorities. Bethesda’s not necessarily bad at making games, they merely have zero interest in making the kind of games most of us here want.
 

LeStryfe79

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Modern Age starts with Fallout 3 (2008)

*KotoR
Kotor is just a simplified BG with 3ed rules. Did not mark a shift in rpg industry. FO3 clearly did.

Also, I'm beginning to believe many ignorant mother fuckers on this forum are unaware of the definitions of terms like golden age and silver age. They have nothing to do with quality and you would know that if you weren't dipshits.
 

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