Hard West - tactical turn based + wild west setting

[Vault Dweller]

Wow, this turned to shit very fast.

Who didn't love the award-winning XCOM interface and mechanics?

We do not, however, force it and reinvent the wheel - the prototype combat system and corresponding UI are based on the best stuff there is - and that is, in our opinion, XCom

It's da best, bro.

The backbone is a 2 AP system (meaning: each character has 2 action points, all actions, including movement, cost either 1 or 2 APs). That is because it's the most elegant solution out there: it makes all the decisions more important, and the game clearer; you don't have to calculate APs; you never miss "just a few" APs to carry out your plan; you don't have reduntant APs remaining; the pace is faster because you don't get to tiptoe square by square (which is, after all, the safest and most reasonable tactic in most games that allow it). Also, it allows for controller support. And eventual console ports, maybe.

All the best things in life, basically. Consoles, controllers, streamlining.

I mean, why make these non-important decision when you can run and/or gun? Why calculate APs? Why be sad because you're "just a few" APs short when you can use a 2AP system and be happy?

There's a hit chance, but usually it's either high or low. We try to avoid 50/50 situations or anything nearby, because they effectively lead to ineffective try and error, load-try-load-try and so on.

God forbid.

We're also implementing tiny tasty features that will engage the player if he wills it. For example, there's an ability that some characters have that enables a minigame during reloading: if you play it out correctly, the reload takes no APs. For reference, you may recall the "active reload" element from Gears of War.

You guys weren't kidding when you said that your design is based on the best stuff there is.

Edit:

Backers' comments:

I really like the sound of the fast reload, seems like a great feature.
...
Yeah - the XCOM system is great and I played with a controller which is great for couch gaming Please make everything doable with a controller.
...
I also subscribe to the idea that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it."; I agree that XCOM's system is fantastic and I am happy that you guys are not trying to re-invent the wheel...

 

[Durwyn]

Kacper Szymczak

Would you kindly explain design vision behind all those stupid decisions highlited ITT?

Do you wanna make a good game or what?

 

[Robert Jarzebina]

 

[m_s0]

They should change that misleading "X-Com combat" to "XCOM (2012) combat" to avoid confusion. That hyphen makes all the difference, guys.

 

[Infinitron]

Vault Dweller confirmed to be jealous indie dev bashing competitor.

 

[m_s0]

Yeah. He'll never be able to masterfully streamline a combat system like those guys. Did you see all them action points in AoD? How am I supposed to wrap my head around that?

 

[belated]

Controllers, consoles and QTE all of a sudden? Tempted to jump ship now.

 

[felipepepe]

Wow, reloading for 0 AP through a mini-game is just retarded. Why they have to go XCOM meets Gear of War? Why can't we get X-COM meets Valkyrie Chronicles?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Because we all know that it's the technological limitations that prevented the X-COM developers from dropping "-" and going full XCOM.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

They gave up melee for this.

 

[VonVentrue]

Wasn't the UI for XCOM2012 poorly received on PC?

I found the UI so nightmarishly retarded I didn't even bother to buy the full version after trying out the demo - at some point, I was struck with the realisation that I kept fighting the interface instead of the alien menace; XCOM's flat-out MEANT to be played with a controller plugged in. The fact the combat system turned out to be a boring-as-all-fuck cover-based shooter in anything but the perspective didn't necessarily bolster my enthusiasm for the game, either.

This bloody update... What a hope crusher.

 

[Zombra]

Not gonna lie, it's not X-Com but I did enjoy XCOM. The same style can work here. For me anyway.

As for this QTE/reloading bullshit ... eh, I can endure it I guess, but I certainly don't like it. Having to take time to reload is, like, a staple of classic Westerns. When running out of bullets isn't a concern, it becomes more, I don't know, Hollywood garbage. I expect to see Antonio Banderas jumping off a roof and firing with pistols in each hand in slow motion with a rap soundtrack. Unfortunate.

I mean, fuck, even in XCOM you had to take time to reload.

 

[felipepepe]

The insta-reload is a horrible mechanic. Together with the 2-AP system, it's even worst. Now every gun cost the same to fire, and magazine size don't mean shit. A 6-shot revolver and a 2-shot shotgun now work exactly the same, hurray.

 

[Zombra]

The upside is that the QTE screen says "Press R to reload", not "Press

to reload." So at least they have computers in their office, not just making the whole fucking thing on an XBox.

 

[Branm]

Wasn't the UI for XCOM2012 poorly received on PC?

I found the UI so nightmarishly retarded I didn't even bother to buy the full version after trying out the demo - at some point, I was struck with the realisation that I kept fighting the interface instead of the alien menace; XCOM's flat-out MEANT to be played with a controller plugged in. The fact the combat system turned out to be a boring-as-all-fuck cover-based shooter in anything but the perspective didn't necessarily bolster my enthusiasm for the game, either.

This bloody update... What a hope crusher.

Yup, was about to back but that update was indeed a total deal breaker...Way to come to the codex and then alienate potential backers by streamlining and dumbing the game down...QTE alone already bad enough. Then again it is quite clear that the codex reader isnt your target audience.

 

[Dr Tomo]

Why they have to go XCOM meets Gear of War?

Well it has come to light that this game is meant to cater the console tards. Would not surprise me that when they do release the game on PC that is it highly "encouraged" (or it will play like Dark souls on pc) that you use a controller. Really liked the setting and the potential the game had, also does Poles know English out of curiosity like fluently? They seem to read off a script in the video while talking about the game as if they don't know much about it.

 

[muds_animal_friend]

... the prototype combat system and corresponding UI are based on the best stuff there is - and that is, in our opinion, XCom (2012).

... there's an ability that some characters have that enables a minigame during reloading ...

... eventual console ports ...

 

[Zombra]

So I was ragging on QTEs in the Kickstarter comments and got this response:

Fear not, dear fans!
Just as we will not force the minigames, qte's and other such elements on players who want to take their time, we will not force a downtempo into those wishing to take their game pace up a notch.
Also, do not be afraid that these elements will take our firepower away from the real issues. Just as this one, they'll be cheap tiny bits here and there.

I'll leave the obvious responses here to wiser hands.

 

[felipepepe]

:incloosive:

Try making a game for everyone, and you'll end with a game for no one.

 

[JohnTheRevelator]

Haha oh wow. This gave me good laugh. Good thing I wasn't interested in first place. Honestly, I have to wonder if they shamelessly copied XCOM down to UI elements like health display because they are lazy/can't do anything better anyway or was it more of a calculated move. Dat reloading though, design straight outta mobile games. Keep them players occupied.

 

[Grunker]

Almost backed this, thought I'd wait and see some more gameplay details. Came here, read the thread. Sent kind thoughts to Past Grunker.

I don't mind the nu-XCOM inspiration as the rest of you seem to, but minigames, consoles, controllers, simplistic tactical combat and real-time events in a turn-based game can all go suck a fuck (thanks, Maggie Gyllenhall.

We'll see. Maybe they'll think better of it. But right now it looks like a promising project turned disappointment...

 

[ColCol]

Yeah, liked what I first saw, but the newly discussed features are putting me off.

 

[Jvegi]

Don't want to be the Devils advocate, but... I guess it might be fine. Just a little game, with possibly cool setting, simplistic, fast-paced combat, and hopefully interesting "HOMM elements".

Why would you expect a competent TB game from such a small project? There are no miracles. TB blinds you people, makes you expect great things, even though TB is rarely good at all. It ain't gonna be X-COM.

But yeah, fucking hell. I knew it was fishy with all those filters, non-animations and a ridicules ricochet mechanic, but that update was quite a gut-punch.

Anyway, They're obviously listening so perhaps if we menage to avoid our typical retarded over-raging, and stay constructive in our criticism, something can be done. Please, no QTE for reloading.

 

[felipepepe]

TB blinds you people, makes you expect great things, even though TB is rarely good at all.

 

[Saduj]

This could still turn out to be something I want to play. But reading this thread from start to finish, I went from to .

Pretty much disagree with every design decision mentioned in post #48 and after so I can't consider backing this. But I hope they make it. Would love to be proven wrong on this.