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1eyedking Isometric gameplay can't hold a candle to first person real-time

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by CyberP, Jun 13, 2014.

  1. Abelian Somebody's Alt

    Abelian
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    I'd say it's more of a benevolent dictatorship.
     
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  2. garren Arcane

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    Now you can operate 2d screens with oculus rift.. in 3d! So much better than working with stupid 2d windows on flat monitors.
    Show Spoiler
    :troll:
     
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  3. Derek Larp Arbiter

    Derek Larp
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    [​IMG]

    Unrivalled immersion.
     
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  4. Abu Antar Tweet, tweet Patron

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    Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    Yes, let's take a turn-based rpg that lets you have multiple members in your party, with a good story and make it an FPS with rpg elements and awful combat system. Hey, let's also ignore the lore of the world and do our own cool shit. Let us also have C&C that is so insignificant that no one really gives a damn. Or, let's take fallout and turn it into an Elders Scrolls game.
     
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  5. Angthoron Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Angthoron
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    This thread, it's as painful to follow as an Adam Sandler film.

    "This summer, Adam Sandler is a game modder. He joins a forum that looks like fun! But what he didn't know is that it's not so easy to fit in!

    This summer! Adam Sandler in Skewed Perception!"
     
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  6. Western Arcane Patron

    Western
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    Codex 2012 Codex 2014 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Black Arcane

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    I've seen many upstart trolls in my time but this is the new level of not even trying.
     
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  8. CyberP Unwanted

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    ^Just found that. Case further reinforced.
     
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  9. CyberP Unwanted

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    Then lets hand to to Obsidian who will to some degree fix it.
     
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  10. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    And different purposes.
    I don't know, mang, it works poorly for strategy, RTS and tactical games.

    Show Spoiler
    It does work better for RPGs though, unless they lean heavily towards tactical squad management games.
    Show Spoiler
    In particular it would have worked just as well as iso for Fallouts.
    :troll:


    Nor tactical thought.

    It's just wrong if INT 1 moron can employ brilliant tactical maneuvers to win encounters.
    True RPG should play itself.

    :hmmm:
    Dolan pls.

    The reason we don't get much (non-cosmetic) environmental interactivity in 3D FPP is the same reason we don't get levitation in newer TES - game devs, including level designers, are generally derpy movie director wannabes and player being given any freedom throws massive wrench into the cogs of their "creative" process.

    Iso is nowadays used pretty much exclusively by indies more interested in gameplay than epic scripting (and lacking resources to do much epic scripting) and often for genres not relying on single protagonist following scripted narrative like strategies and tactical games that don't have much room for armchair scriptwriters getting aneurysm because player has knocked over a wall and ruined they beyootifool setpiece with his damned agency (not to mention breaking several rigidly scripted questlines in the process just because some asstard designer/scriptmonkey couldn't have kept his hands off them unless absolutely necessary).

    Really, you could have inferred as much from playing through original Red Faction once and comparing this experience with MP and that glasshouse playpen level.

    Actually, any sane parson realizes that when it comes to fiction, immersion basically equates with suspension of disbelief.

    Of course, any remotely sane person also realizes that perspective is secondary to about everything else when it comes to immersion - for example, there is no way you could possibly consider Oblivion more immersive than, say PS:T, if about every minute of it you endure you're forced to plant your face in your hands thinking "god, what a horribly retarded *game* it is".

    Yes, OTOH in first person you're unable to coordinate three way pincer attack while party's sneak takes out enemy support dudes from behind and long range dudes pelt critical targets from afar with arrows/spell/sniper rounds/rocket propelled grenades (depending on setting).

    Different perspectives for different purposes and different kinds of gameplay.


    Edit:
    Pull your head out of your ass - both the vision problems and the butthurt should subside.
    :smug:
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2014
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  11. CyberP Unwanted

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    FPP can feature strategy and tactics.

    I know you're talking about those genres & their style of gameplay, but when I'm flying around with jetpacks blowing shit up and taking on the bad guy in epic superhero battles, you'll just be clicking on shit, mang ;)
     
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  12. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    But not hands-on coordination of strategy and tactics.

    When I'll be sitting on my skull throne commanding minions to get shit done, you'll still be doing gruntwork as someone else's henchman.
    :obviously:

    Show Spoiler
    The most amusing part of this exchange is that I actually prefer FPP with heavy emphasis on exploration, It's just that I do know what it can't do terribly well.
    :troll:
     
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  13. CyberP Unwanted

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    Eh, you can plan out battle strategies in FPP if that is what some truly want, just like the military do in RL.
     
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  14. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    Reread my previous post.
     
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  15. CyberP Unwanted

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    You can have Isometric, real-time strategy or whatever within the FPP game world, it can be a mini-game within a massive game world or whatever. Likewise you can have isometric RPG that cuts to FP, but FP has the greatest potential.
     
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  16. CyberP Unwanted

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    "Reread my previous post."

    Oh right, skull throne, minions, gotcha.
     
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  17. CyberP Unwanted

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    But not hands-on coordination of strategy and tactics.
    [/QUOTE]

    Yes it can, just fly up in a VTOL and hover above the battlefield. Then it would be both FPP and Isometric or top-down.
     
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  18. CyberP Unwanted

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    And from there you can give out orders hands-on using some kind of holographic interface, or whatever.
     
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  19. CyberP Unwanted

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    ^but you may as well just not bother and play these types of games as standard, but FPP can do it :)
     
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  20. DraQ Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    DraQ
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    You can also have an overhead game cut to FPP when needed, like DK.

    The bottom line is that the moment you've admitted the possibility of needing some sort of overhead interface (even emulated inside a first person game), you've essentially admitted defeat by admitting that FPP isn't unconditionally superior.

    Then there is the question of resources - sometimes implementing full FPP movement, detailed environments and so on may be superfluous to what you're trying to do and eat time and effort you could have used to make the parts that do matter in your design much better.

    And then there is the part where commanding the forces realistically may actually be less fun because, let's face it, moving those little flags and figures on the map table isn't nearly as cool as watching actual exploshuns and shit from above.

    As for your VTOL example - what if the game is set in pre-industrial historical setting?
     
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  21. CyberP Unwanted

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    "As for your VTOL example - what if the game is set in pre-industrial historical setting?"

    Your PC is God ;)

    "you've essentially admitted defeat by admitting that FPP isn't unconditionally superior."

    Well I did say the OP was rather hyperbolic. Superior core concept? Hyperbole. Deeper core concept? Yes.
     
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  22. DalekFlay Arcane Patron

    DalekFlay
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    Well my point was you can do the same genres in both (explorefag, storyfag, shooter, tactical) and it works in both styles, just differently.
     
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  23. Black Arcane

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    Guys, first we need to define what is an RPG.
     
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  24. Derek Larp Arbiter

    Derek Larp
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    I can totally see it now:

    You don the Oculus Rift and look through the eyes of a CO in a command centre watching the battle unfold on a 2d screen where his units are represented by abstract symbols.
    :thumbsup:
     
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