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[Nevill]

Except that Yunzi may not know Qilin all that well, who she is exactly and the like.

She spent about a month around her with the Emei. At the very least she knows that she is one of our wives, and she knows of our reputation among the orthodoxes.

I'd say she is smart enough to connect the dots.

There is absolutely nothing good that can happen the longer these two groups are in close proximity, especially with us trolling in the middle of it.

Bai Jiutian, who was an official leader of the pugilists until recently, is against the fighting because he is afraid of the Saint's power. I'd think most of them are not entertained by the prospect of facing him, either. But we are fair game. We present a 'safe' target for them to vent their anger against.

If Jing isn't a blip compared to their strength, why would they care if he walks over to the Fire Cult?

It adds another reason, a personal one, to attack the Fire Cult that has a disciple of the Maniac in their ranks. Especially so for Nie Wuxung.

If the Sword Saint is the one currently keeping the peace, then the peace doesn't depend on Jing and he should use the time the Sword Saint is buying to try to achieve his goal.

The 'peace' is currently crumbling. Now that Bai Jiutian is no longer in charge, Nie Wuxung have taken the lead. He has a personal grudge against us. Our presence might distract him from starting a battle - and Cao'er might have an opportunity to free Qilin in the meantime.

And sure, objective achieved, but the guy still stepped in, so everyone who said he'd just stand there was wrong.

Please list them. Everyone was positive he will retaliate.
I know you are not content with the outcome, and neither am I, to be honest, but the points you've brought up in the original post were off the mark.

 

[a cut of domestic sheep prime]

Please list them. Everyone was positive he will retaliate.

Are you shitting me? No. I'm not wading through that mess of discuss. Yes, people said it. People thought he'd retaliate, but only after we had finished our fight with the seven. Don't believe me? How about you go through, make a list of everyone in the thread, everyone's points in each of their posts and tally the number that did/didn't. And while you are at it, go to the doctor and get some assbugers meds because if you are willing to do that, then you need them.

 

[Tribute]

Didn't Jing face off against some of the guys in the 100 man match?

Those were the heads of some minor kung fu schools, not any of the Eight Sects.

 

[Baltika9]

If the Sword Saint is the one currently keeping the peace, then the peace doesn't depend on Jing and he should use the time the Sword Saint is buying to try to achieve his goal.

The 'peace' is currently crumbling. Now that Bai Jiutian is no longer in charge, Nie Wuxung have taken the lead. He has a personal grudge against us. Our presence might distract him from starting a battle - and Cao'er might have an opportunity to free Qilin in the meantime.

Again, "mights" and "what ifs", not something to gamble her life over. Look, all I'm saying is this:

And standing in the middle of two belligerent crowds who can boil over at any second and trolling everyone while your girl's life hangs in the balance is a pretty dumb idea. What are the concrete advantages of A?

There are too many variables to review on a case-by-case, so let's skip that part. Bottom line is, Jing is extremely unorthodox and disliked by all the sects present here, so his participation in A will not do any good at all, I think, in terms of pacifying anyone. Nie Wuxing is just as likely to question the Saint's allegiance and neutrality with us standing right besides him (remember, we are the Loki to their Asgard) and him doing nothing, as he is to rage at us for stripping Nie Mudan. That is, if he doesn't go through with his original plan of "fuck some cultists up" while Qilin is still there in the crossfire. So, yeah, I feel pretty damned justified in saying that A is an extremely shaky chance of rescuing Qilin, there is no denying that, and that actually picking the Cult's side is a much better option for her and helping them escape.

And since we couldn't care less about the UNBROs present, I see no reason to not make such a deal with the Ahura Mazda. Yunzi was aching to invite us to their place, so here we are.

 

[Kashmir Slippers]

Do you guys seriously think that they will just cough up Qilin just because we tell them she isn't useful to them?

I admit up front, that all of this is speculation, but I think they they will try to make us into a scapegoat. If their "hostage" has no power over the orthodox sects, why would we try to free her if not because she has some power over us. We have already shown them that we will fight against the orthodox sects, so I foresee them using Qilin as an impetus to cover their retreat like a "Oh, we will give her back to you if you fight/kill that man coming up to us." The don't care about our skill level or being outmatched. If we have to die for them to get away, they wouldn't mind. We are nothing to them. If you guys think that Yunzi-kins and the maidens will rush up and say how we are their savior, then you need to rethink your position. We are just as useless to them as Qilin is, and we are telling them that they have something to use against us.

Even if we can get her back, this is not a diplomacy option for us. We couldn't even get the lesser sects to stop attacking the pirates and that was before we had gone full retard unorthodox. We have the exact same persuasion skill that we did back then too and even less of a reason for them to stop fighting. The orthodox sects will not give a flying fuck about what we have to say. They already don't trust us to fight a fair fight or tell them the truth, let alone enough to listen to our pleas for peace. If anything us standing against them will give them more than enough reason to kill us right now.

Their leaders are gone, and they are out for blood. The only leadership that they do have hate us. I say we stick with the one guy who can protect us and follow his lead.

Also SWORDS

 

[Nevill]

Again, "mights" and "what ifs", not something to gamble her life over.

Suuure, you are totally not gambling on them listening to you when even Yunzi does not have a say in this.

C. You run in, appealing to the Fire Cult that you are not their enemy, that they have your friend in their hands, and that it is futile of them to keep Qilin hostage. Hopefully they will listen. You don’t think that Nie Wuxing will stop just because some Wudu Cult girl is in danger: keeping her hostage is pointless.

'Hopefully' is so much a better word than 'might' and 'what if'.

 

[Tigranes]

Nevill's refutation of Kipeci makes the most sense so far. C, and I'll return to DISCUSS! soon.

 

[Kipeci]

It adds another reason, a personal one, to attack the Fire Cult that has a disciple of the Maniac in their ranks. Especially so for Nie Wuxung.

The 'peace' is currently crumbling. Now that Bai Jiutian is no longer in charge, Nie Wuxung have taken the lead. He has a personal grudge against us. Our presence might distract him from starting a battle - and Cao'er might have an opportunity to free Qilin in the meantime.

Nie Wuxung didn't recognize us while we were holding a direct conversation with him in the alternate timeline and you expect him to recognize Jing from far off while he's talking to the Fire Cult? I'd also be fascinated as to how in the world Cao'er would free Qilin from a chokehold by one of the strongest warriors that the Fire Cult has to offer! Please, explain.

 

[Baltika9]

I admit up front, that all of this is speculation, but I think they they will try to make us into a scapegoat. If their "hostage" has no power over the orthodox sects, why would we try to free her if not because she has some power over us. We have already shown them that we will fight against the orthodox sects, so I foresee them using Qilin as an impetus to cover their retreat like a "Oh, we will give her back to you if you fight/kill that man coming up to us." The don't care about our skill level or being outmatched. If we have to die for them to get away, they wouldn't mind. We are nothing to them. If you guys think that Yunzi-kins and the maidens will rush up and say how we are their savior, then you need to rethink your position. We are just as useless to them as Qilin is, and we are telling them that they have something to use against us.

Even if we can get her back, this is not a diplomacy option for us. We couldn't even get the lesser sects to stop attacking the pirates and that was before we had gone full retard unorthodox. We have the exact same persuasion skill that we did back then too and even less of a reason for them to stop fighting. The orthodox sects will not give a flying fuck about what we have to say. They already don't trust us to fight a fair fight or tell them the truth, let alone enough to listen to our pleas for peace. If anything us standing against them will give them more than enough reason to kill us right now.

Well, obviously the Cult will ask for something in return, most likely our assistance in their escape, and I see no problem with giving it. And it's impossible to make Jing into a scapegoat in a situation like this, when he had nothing to do with the mountain collapsing in the first place. All in all, C looks like a simple exchange: Qilin for Jing's, the guy who is stronger than their top young fighter (as far as they know), assistance, which there are no problems with.
And fuck cowering behind Shagguan (with BJ right by our side, might I add) while Qilin is about to die, we must do something proactive. A is the farthest thing from that. I still don't see what we're holding out for, except a miracle or LORD Zhang Jue's arrival* and trolling the belligerent crowds, one of whom hates us and the other just wanting to GTFO and will fight for it if it has to. Like, what's the point?

*To be fair, that will solve all of our problems.

 

[Nevill]

Nie Wuxung didn't recognize us while we were holding a direct conversation with him in the alternate timeline and you expect him to recognize Jing from far off while he's talking to the Fire Cult? I'd also be fascinated as to how in the world Cao'er would free Qilin from a chokehold by one of the strongest warriors that the Fire Cult has to offer! Please, explain.

He is standing near the Saint (he passed him by just now). We are heading to the Saint to drink with him, so we'll be close enough.

And just like in the alternate timeline, Bai Jiutian is going to recognize us, and shout our name for everyone to hear.

Cao'er can not free Qilin because she is too far. That was her reasoning, not that he was lightning fast, super strong or anything else. Therefore, we need to get closer.

If she could paralyze Yang Xue, one of the Amesha Spenta is no match for her.

And fuck cowering behind Shagguan (with BJ right by our side, might I add) while Qilin is about to die, we must do something proactive.

I'd say dwawing everyone's attention from the battle and the hostage to us is proactive enough. B is the passive choice. If they are not watching Cao'er or the hostage, it raises Qilin's chances to escape.

 

[Baltika9]

There's more Amesha Spentas where this one came from, and they are physically closer to Qilin than we are. Sure, she can maybe paralyze one, but then what?

He is standing near the Saint (he passed him by just now). We are heading to the Saint to drink with him, so we'll be close enough.

And just like in the alternate timeline, Bai Jiutian is going to recognize us, and shout our name for everyone to hear.

Uh, not in C we're not, we're going the completely opposite direction.

 

[Nevill]

There's more Amesha Spentas where this one came from, and they are physically closer to Qilin than we are. Sure, she can maybe paralyze one, but then what?

Only one Amesha Spenta is holding Qilin by the throat. If he is down, Qilin is free to run for her life.

Uh, not in C we're not, we're going the completely opposite direction.

Yes we are in A, we are heading in the middle of the battlefield where the Saint is sitting on Vahista and where everyone can see us.

 

[Kipeci]

He is standing near the Saint (he passed by just now). We are heading to dring with the Saint, so we'll be close enough.
And just like in the alternate timeline, Bai Jiutiian is going to recognize us, and shout our name for everyone to hear.

I don't care about your distraction (great way to get Jing skewered, by the way) but rather your reasoning that us walking over to the Fire Cult will get an attack started. If he doesn't recognize us from a distance and BJ is occupied serving wine to the Sword Saint, where is he going to get the idea that we're Xu Jing and then decide to rush and attack immediately despite the Sword Saint having told everyone to chill out?

Cao'er can not free Qilin because she is too far. That was her reasoning, not that he was lightning fast, or anything else. Therefore, we need to get closer.

If she could paralyze Yang Xue, one of the Amesha Spenta is no match for her.

And all the other guys next to them that are also active and super strong? Your plan is to also attack the fire cult to rescue her? I'm pretty sure that that's not what A implies.

Yang Xue could only be paralyzed after a long battle with many others attacking him at once while there was also a convenient vest to hold all those immobilizing pins in place and so on. These guys are very tough, also on par with the leaders of the Eight Sects, and you think Cao'er can paralyze them from halfway across the field with no other support and Qilin can just run off?

 

[Baltika9]

Kipeci hit the nail on the head, completely agreed with him.

Uh, not in C we're not, we're going the completely opposite direction.

Yes we are in A, we are heading in the middle of the battlefield where the Saint is sitting on Vahista and where everyone can see us.

So...how is that a point against C?

 

[Nevill]

I don't care about your distraction (great way to get Jing skewered, by the way) but rather your reasoning that us walking over to the Fire Cult will get an attack started. If he doesn't recognize us from a distance and BJ is occupied serving wine to the Sword Saint, where is he going to get the idea that we're Xu Jing and then decide to rush and attack immediately despite the Sword Saint having told everyone to chill out?

Uh... how about 'because Jing will tell everyone about it'? We will be appealing to our reputation of not being a friend to the orthodox sects. That would necessitate declaring our identity, I guess. Because a random dude asking to release the hostage would not really work.

As for them attacking... the Saint is a deterrent, but if we are sure he can stop a fight from breaking out, why are we even interfering? Emotions might cloud the judgement, and Jing declaring his allegiance to the Fire Cult in such an open manner is like throwing a can of gasoline into a fire.

Yes, I know we already fought on their side. But while it makes us the enemy of the orthodox sects, it does not make us the same as them. I think it will work in favor of the diversion.

Your plan is to also attack the fire cult to rescue her?

My plan is to distract them to the point that Qilin is no longer required, or is freed. Attacking them is just one of the options.

Yang Xue could only be paralyzed after a long battle with many others attacking him at once

And that was because he wasn't a stationary target:

She draws her arms back to make the throw, but with a shout Yang Xue raises his hands upwards. The ground trembles, shaking Cao’er’s footing.

Thankfully, the guy in question is.

Cao'er can paralyze them from halfway across the field with no other support and Qilin can just run off?

Depends on how far they are, and how aware they are of their surroundings. The distraction is going to help there, too.

Oh, and I believe Qilin can just run off, if there wouldn't be a guy holding her by the throat.

Kipeci hit the nail on the head, completely agreed with him.

About what?

So...how is that a point against C?

I don't know. I am arguing for A. You brough C up yourself. :D

 

[Baltika9]

Your argument against C was that, should Nie Wuxing and BJ recognize Jing among the Cult, they will order a charge. As Kipeci rightly noted, how the fuck will they do it across the field with BJ's attention elsewhere, Wuxing not knowing what we look like, and Jing's back turned to them, since we're running in the opposite direction and all. Sure, they'll get suspicious in about five-ten minutes, but that's all we need to strike a deal. After that, they can do whatever they want, Qilin will be safe. And, yeah, the Amesha Spentas are uber-powerful dudes, on par and some even stronger than the orthodox sect masters. Even if the pressure points somehow catch one (and those with powerful neiggong are known to be able to neutralize that, the Fire Cult places a lot of emphasis on their spirituality), then there are still three of them here and it is incredibly risky to gamble Qilin's life on something like that. I'd be all for it if Jing were playing with his own life, but he isn't, and this seems a stupid risk to take for one of our girls.

 

[Elfberserker]

Flopping to C.

I just realized that we won't right a away join Fire cult side in C. I don't think making peace between orthodox schools and firecult guys is viable for Jing. Naturally rescuing Qilin takes highest priority, even if we most likely have to trade favors with Fire lord but we cross that bridge when we come to it.

 

[Azira]

The two forces are clearly arrayed closely enough that they can see eachother. If Jing, with his 4 in perception (lower than average) can see Qilin clearly enough to recognise her, anyone who's seen Man Tiger Pig before will be able to recognise him as the twerp running excitedly towards the Fire Cults lines. There's more to recognising a person than their face. A master will probably have a high enough perception to recognise Jing even if he were trying to disguise himself, and in this case he isn't.

Besides, begging is so un-Jing like...

 

[Nevill]

As Kipeci rightly noted, how the fuck will they do it across the field with BJ's attention elsewhere, Wuxing not knowing what we look like, and Jing's back turned to them, since we're running in the opposite direction and all.

We are heading in the same direction with Nie Wuxung. He is getting closer to the cultists.

Anyway, I have no idea how you are going to remain anonymous. I don't even know why you are clinging to that particular point. It takes time to persuade the cultists. Jing will be declaring his identity for that. What the orthodoxes would do is a question, but if they are not dissuaded from the attack right now, they are going to be even more eager to fight the cultists once we try to join them.

We might or might not persuade the cultists by that time.

I don't think making peace between orthodox schools and firecult guys is viable for Jing.

I don't think this is a point of A. I don't see it saying 'peace' anywhere. For now, the priority number one is to save Qilin.

 

[Baltika9]

Except none of the present Masters know us, and BJ, the only man of the bunch close enough to recognize us immediately, is busy serving wine and generally being Shagguan's bitch, then we have time to do our magic. Yeah, not seeing the point here. What will get us recognzied instantly, however, is A.

If they want to fight after we secure Qilin, by all means.

 

[Nevill]

and BJ, the only man of the bunch close enough to recognize us immediately

And the six Taishan guys who just fought us will never notice us.

If anonymity is your ace, it is not going to work.

I just realized that we won't right a away join Fire cult side in C.

Or, since the trick didn't work against the orthodox pugilists, they will make you fight, like Kashimir Slippers suggested. It would be a waste not to use that hostage one way or another.

 

[Baltika9]

Great, all we need is enough time to get up to the Cult and start our dialogue, I suppose 7 stealth is enough to avoid detection for that long. If the sects want to bum-rush us and them for negotiating over a hostage, then they can have fun (and lots of it) getting past Shagguan, the dude that's here specifically to prevent fighting and violence. All we need is Qilin out of the firing line, and then they can do whatever they want.

Besides, begging is so un-Jing like...

And cowering behind big, strong Shagguan is even less so.

 

[Nevill]

Great, all we need is enough time to get up to the Cult and start our dialogue, I suppose 7 stealth is enough to avoid detection for that long

Where it is said that he would approach the Fire Cult discreetly? It is getting dangerously close to 'vote C for +1 stealth'.

then they can have fun (and lots of it) getting past Shagguan

As I said, if Shagguan is such a deterrent, why are we even trying to do anything? Let him do all the work!
No, I am not going to, sorry.

All we need is Qilin out of the firing line, and then they can do whatever they want.

Or they can use her as a leverage against you to ensure your cooperation. Since, you know, you are not one of them.
I don't know why you think they are going to just release her. If Yunzi can't do it, why would we be able to? What makes us superior to her in that regard?

 

[Azira]

Sitting trollishly in the midst of the battle-lines drinking wine while people are clamoring for a fight is "cowering"? Can't see how you can make a bigger target out of yourself.

 

[Kipeci]

Uh... how about 'because Jing will tell everyone about it'? We will be appealing to our reputation of not being a friend to the orthodox sects. That would necessitate declaring our identity, I guess. Because a random dude asking to release the hostage would not really work.

Yes, and how are they going to hear that all the way on the other side of the battlefield? You seem paranoid that the head of Huashan will immediately rush over to attack the other side on the sole basis of Jing joining up with them, I'm just stating that Nie isn't going to be paying breathtakingly close attention to some guy talking to the Fire Cult way across the battlefield and so he isn't going to be able to tell that it's Jing, let alone if he can't recognize him and the people who are are otherwise occupied.

As for them attacking... the Saint is a deterrent, but if we are sure he can stop a fight from breaking out, why are we even interfering? Emotions might cloud the judgement, and Jing declaring his allegiance to the Fire Cult in such an open manner is like throwing a can of gasoline into a fire.

We're not declaring allegiance, we're negotiating the release of Qilin. I don't care about the greater fight, but I do care about her, and I think that negotiating to get her out of there is much more likely to bear fruit than just sort of lazing around and hoping everything blows over. Why should the orthodox give a shit if some guy out of many is talking on the Fire Cult's side?

My plan is to distract them to the point that Qilin is no longer required, or is freed. Attacking them is just one of the options.

Why do you think the Fire Cult, in for the fight of most of their lives, is going to be distracted from what they think is one of the few chips they have left to secure their safety by the trollish antics of some drinker who stumbled in halfway? No one has time for Jing's shit right now, and betting Qilin's life on them humoring Jing seems kinda shitty. If you want to go for the option where you distract and attack the Fire Cult to get Qilin out of there, go for the option that has you actually do that, not the option where we get a drink. Personally, I'd prefer some diplomacy.

And that was because he wasn't a stationary target:
Thankfully, the guy in question is.

And you think he and all his buddies are going to stay stationary and do nothing if a hail of needles starts coming their way? What do you take them for?

Depends on how far they are, and how aware they are of their surroundings. The distraction is going to help there, too.

Oh, and I believe Qilin can just run off, if there wouldn't be a guy holding her by the throat.

Okay, I think I see what the plan is.

These extremely strong fire cultists are vigilantly watching every butterfly flitter across the field instead of paying any attention to the one potential lifeline they think they've secured. They will be completely distracted by the drunken antics of some teenager who showed up and will not react when a girl begins flinging needles all throughout them, taking advantage of the fact that these trained martial artists will obviously have no defense against such an assault between all of them anyway. Their fellow cultists will be similarly enthralled and will stand around picking their noses while Qilin runs away.

Is that about how it goes?

This attack, of course, all happens as a result of a choice that doesn't imply any aggression against the Fire Cult when we've just taken their side a little in a fight and have positive relations.