Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

[Jaedar]

I get the feeling the game diluted itself over the years, specially after "Fall of Oriath" and I would've enjoyed it even more in a less bloated state. It's only natural that the company involved would slowly but surely switch from small-but-dense-in-quality towards "more shit = more money".

I mean, you're not wrong, but man was running the same four acts 3 different times worse than now. The real problem is the complexity of the mechanics they put out now. Used to be they added stuff like shrines and essences, fairly minor inclusions. Now they tend to add more complicated stuff, some of which really feels like it benefits from keeping a spreadsheet (betrayal).

Part of the problem though is that most builds invalidate most content by the endgame, so it rarely matters what enemies/bosses you are facing, because you are annihilating them before they have a chance to do much. So they kinda have to rely on these complicated addons to add variety.

I also think the problems with meta builds, build power differences and balancing thereof is essentially what Sawyer was trying to avoid when he made the other PoE. Massive build variety but impossible balancing vs good balance but no build differentiation, which is better and why? (the former, obv but it's still flawed)

 

[Sharpedge]

I get the feeling the game diluted itself over the years, specially after "Fall of Oriath" and I would've enjoyed it even more in a less bloated state. It's only natural that the company involved would slowly but surely switch from small-but-dense-in-quality towards "more shit = more money".

I mean, you're not wrong, but man was running the same four acts 3 different times worse than now. The real problem is the complexity of the mechanics they put out now. Used to be they added stuff like shrines and essences, fairly minor inclusions. Now they tend to add more complicated stuff, some of which really feels like it benefits from keeping a spreadsheet (betrayal).

Part of the problem though is that most builds invalidate most content by the endgame, so it rarely matters what enemies/bosses you are facing, because you are annihilating them before they have a chance to do much. So they kinda have to rely on these complicated addons to add variety.

I also think the problems with meta builds, build power differences and balancing thereof is essentially what Sawyer was trying to avoid when he made the other PoE. Massive build variety but impossible balancing vs good balance but no build differentiation, which is better and why? (the former, obv but it's still flawed)

Whilst it is impossible to achieve balance in Path, it is possible to do a lot better than the current status quo. The real problem has nothing to do with improving the status quo, but the fact that they cannot do it without upsetting the people who like going zoom zoom through everything. Really, the problem is that the game is now mainstream where as before it was a small, dedicated audience. In 1 of the Exilecon interviews Chris spoke about how there are a lot of things they would have done differently if they had known what the end result would be of not doing them immediately, but that they cannot change now because of how many people it would upset. I get the feeling that the game as it is now, is not the game that he wanted to make, but that for the sake of his wallet, he accepts that it must stay this way. It is a pity that it is this way, but it is what it is.

 

[Jaedar]

I get the feeling the game diluted itself over the years, specially after "Fall of Oriath" and I would've enjoyed it even more in a less bloated state. It's only natural that the company involved would slowly but surely switch from small-but-dense-in-quality towards "more shit = more money".

I mean, you're not wrong, but man was running the same four acts 3 different times worse than now. The real problem is the complexity of the mechanics they put out now. Used to be they added stuff like shrines and essences, fairly minor inclusions. Now they tend to add more complicated stuff, some of which really feels like it benefits from keeping a spreadsheet (betrayal).

Part of the problem though is that most builds invalidate most content by the endgame, so it rarely matters what enemies/bosses you are facing, because you are annihilating them before they have a chance to do much. So they kinda have to rely on these complicated addons to add variety.

I also think the problems with meta builds, build power differences and balancing thereof is essentially what Sawyer was trying to avoid when he made the other PoE. Massive build variety but impossible balancing vs good balance but no build differentiation, which is better and why? (the former, obv but it's still flawed)

Whilst it is impossible to achieve balance in Path, it is possible to do a lot better than the current status quo. The real problem has nothing to do with improving the status quo, but the fact that they cannot do it without upsetting the people who like going zoom zoom through everything. Really, the problem is that the game is now mainstream where as before it was a small, dedicated audience. In 1 of the Exilecon interviews Chris spoke about how there are a lot of things they would have done differently if they had known what the end result would be of not doing them immediately, but that they cannot change now because of how many people it would upset. I get the feeling that the game as it is now, is not the game that he wanted to make, but that for the sake of his wallet, he accepts that it must stay this way. It is a pity that it is this way, but it is what it is.

Yeah, afaik they have the same problem with the talent tree. They'd like to overhaul it, but every time they did so in the past it caused significant drops in player count, so they won't and we'll never be free of path of life nodes.

 

[Alpan]

The passive tree will be overhauled in PoE 2. Whether this will afford them the possibility to make changes to it as they see fit is another matter.

 

[Shadenuat]

I also think the problems with meta builds, build power differences and balancing thereof is essentially what Sawyer was trying to avoid when he made the other PoE. Massive build variety but impossible balancing vs good balance but no build differentiation, which is better and why? (the former, obv but it's still flawed)

God let's not bring this forced comparison in

These are 2 completely contextually different games, with different endgame goals. What people enjoy and can work in single player party game is completely different to multiplayer game totally made around using xyz skills to build new characters over and over again. Trying to excuse Path for power creep and feature creep and tons of monsters attacking out of screen because "well it's not supposed to be balanced" is just that - an excuse. Designers refused to slow their train down and continued to add feature creep and op items because they need to monetize the game; instead of working on the basics. They went taller, and broader, at the same time. Just look at the skills - so many of them are trash, yet every time I return to the game, there are always new skills added.
yet the small font ui on charscreen as same as i remember it during farming docks.

What they ended up with is ever expanding character system with a weakening basic game which cannot support it anymore.

And yeah, they cannot change things without upsetting their angry cultist fanbase without some sort of hard reset of everything.

Used to be they added stuff like shrines and essences, fairly minor inclusions. Now they tend to add more complicated stuff, some of which really feels like it benefits from keeping a spreadsheet (betrayal).

They should take one large system and put their little systems inside it. They have mapping. So instead of million little currency and separate locations and NPCs, why didn't they just add this all into a custom map system. By that I mean: they could be different regions on Atlas, each with its own monster variety and bosses. So there would be like, Abyss part of Atlas that has Abyss monsters on it with Abyss boss in the end, etc.

The passive tree will be overhauled in PoE 2. Whether this will afford them the possibility to make changes to it as they see fit is another matter.

But will it make it not worthless?

It has no tools to pre plan your character and understand the interactions between all the possible skill and buff and item combinations; and it scares away casuals at the same time.

GGG has consistently made the game more rewarding and accessible since the time I started playing

Member when you had to crab those dumb vorici missions

 

[T. Reich]

Vorici missions were one of the very few skill-based mechanics in the game - that's why the dumb zoomers hated them. They hated being forced to stop and think for a moment, god forbid that!

 

[Shadenuat]

I only miss ability to buy cheaper jews/fusings and such

Too bad new masters have no shops whatsoever, would be nice if they sold some unique gear

as for zooming... u seen new atlas? rerun same thing 4 times and then some more? clear speed and not caring the fuck what is around you only thing keeping you sane.

 

[Jaedar]

It has no tools to pre plan your character and understand the interactions between all the possible skill and buff and item combinations; and it scares away casuals at the same time.

I kinda suspect that they'll make PoB or something an official tool. They have always had the passive tree planner on the webpage, so it's not entirely unprecedented. They did also hire the guy who makes PoB.

 

[Shadenuat]

that's actually good news.

 

[abija]

They don't want to output logs and you expect PoB official? Cmon...

 

[Eyestabber]

as for zooming... u seen new atlas? rerun same thing 4 times and then some more? clear speed and not caring the fuck what is around you only thing keeping you sane.

Yeah, the new system is trash. The more I play the game the more I realize Zana's "Still sane, exile?" is breaking the 4th wall.

Anyway, here is my take on every league mechanic, as promised:

• Bloodlines, invasion, onslaught, talisman, nemesis, torment -> barely noticeable bloat that deserves culling.
• Anarchy/Warbands: almost the same as the previous, but I like the pseudo-pvp experience. Shame Rogue Exiles didn't scale into the current state of the game at all, but they were a good idea.
• Rampage: lol, no. Go home CoD, you're drunk.
• Beyond: needs to be either culled or adjusted to present day state of the game. Interesting idea, poor execution.
• Breach: at first I thought it was crap, but it grew on me as I learned its mechanics. And the fast XP rate is very much welcome.
• Delve: don't have a hipster opinion, Delve is good, sulphite cap is bad.
• Ambush: bloat. Game already has chests, no need for "chests, but consult your chart before opening".
• Tempest/Perandus/Harbinger: I guess those were completely forgotten? No idea.
• Essence: GGG's baby steps towards a real crafting system. Should've been expanded upon, but was instead ditched. Missed opportunity there. The corruption remnants are an Ok mechanic. Essences are...just...okay.
• Abyss: decently fun, once you learn to follow the green thing.
• Betrayal/The Immortal Syndicate: I like them. A lot, actually. I understand veterans might fight the chart farming to be tedious, but I feel like the syndicate adds some very needed personality into the game. And I'm sure they put Gravicius there because they realized the voice actor NAILED his lines but his character's appearance was simply too short. Like everything else in the game, the syndicate is an RNG-fuelled autismfest but its safehouses feel rewarding and Cameria is a cheeky cunt. Also, I love the concept of Catarina, even if I never bothered with the boss fight. A would be tyrant that instead of "u will die by my sword, huurrrr" offers eternal life and charms her way up? Yeah, that's actually quite original and interesting.
• Incursion: I'm heavily biased because I love the Conquistador stuff. I read all letters Hernan Cortez and Francisco Pizarro wrote to the King and the white guilt narrative around these guys annoys the shit out of me. Aztecs were murdering animals, spaniards were saviors of indian waifus. Rant aside, Alva is cute and likeable and the idea of going back in time to shape your loot temple is fun and original. The incursions can get messy, but they are fun for the most part.
• Prophecy: good, but awfully bloated system. The number of prophecies needs to be cut in half asap.
• Divination: okay-ish idea, atrocious execution. 90% of div cards are junk that shouldn't even be in the game while the other 10% has abysmal drop rates. This system was supposed to address the drop lottery, but it became another drop lottery. Div cards added only one real thing to the game: another form of flipping. Actually, this one is even more lucrative. Remember how I said I was trying to farm "The Offering"? Yeah, I learned lowballing some people into selling me their cards was faster and more lucrative.
• Bestiary: I had very little contact with this other than having EINHARRRRR aurabot carrying me around. I did use beastcrafting to put some guaranteed suffixes into my flasks. Real crafting = good and the current beast capture mechanics are fine. I hear you had to use nets before, that must've been terrible. (current state)
• Legion: great idea, okay-ish implementation. Fragment system is 100% bullshit meant to fill your tabs with garbage until you buy a fragment tab, but the realm of endless conflict thing is a great idea and legion encounters are interesting.
• Blight: eeehhh....fine? Hated it at first, but once I learned the mechanics and how crazy rewarding these encounters are...they are ok, I guess. Oh and Cassie's tune is really catchy. "And the unrighteous were turned to ash! TO ASH!!!!".
• Synthesis: not really a mechanic anymore, I played one synth map and it was unremarkable. Average, I guess?

 

[Alpan]

Alva is cute and likeable

As a rewarding activity Incursion's Temple of Atzoatl is a terrible waste of time (except that time I got a Headhunter from the Sacrifice Room) that makes you appreciate opportunity cost, but I just love Alva's voice -- there's just something sexy about the way she pronounces the word "exile" and such.

 

[Jaedar]

• Ambush: bloat. Game already has chests, no need for "chests, but consult your chart before opening".

No one opens regular chests tho. Admittedly I skip strongboxes 90% of the time unless unique.

Betrayal/The Immortal Syndicate: I like them

I've hated betrayal ever since a random bad combo of item/person ambush instagibbed a character I really liked playing.

Div cards added only one real thing to the game: another form of flipping.

They also added ability to targetfarm certain uniques in SSF, like tabula rasa.

The incursions can get messy, but they are fun for the most part.

I hate the vaal snake amphora things, they have too many kills on me. But I do really like incursions, even if doing the temple is often a waste of time unless you got really good room RNG.

 

[Shadenuat]

No one opens regular chests

Bad for them since they actually drop maps often.

I've hated betrayal ever since a random bad combo of item/person ambush instagibbed a character I really liked playing.

They're another reason to go CI.

I hate the vaal snake amphora things

u
r
immune
to chaos
damag

They also added ability to targetfarm certain uniques in SSF

This token mechanic where you can farm tokens/cards from particular monsters to exchange for key item is as old as oldest korean grinders. I remember grinding cards for a spell I needed in Ragnarok Online.

I am not a fan of it because it's just another type of braindead grinding. Well it's less braindead than some other types of grinding of course since it is localized, but I think you can do better in ARPGs with stuff like crafting.

 

[Jaedar]

They're another reason to go CI.

I keep meaning to try a CI build, and I keep not doing it because I find it very hard/expensive to get enough gear for reasonable numbers of ES. Always seemed stupid to me to be a 4k ES ci, since you lose the ability to health pot.

Bad for them since they actually drop maps often.

Is this true or anecdotal ?

 

[Shadenuat]

it is true for me, as well as getting shards and crystal belts and stuff. maybe dog wolf knows real truth but I open everything.

I keep meaning to try a CI build, and I keep not doing it because I find it very hard/expensive to get enough gear for reasonable numbers of ES

passives from tree and Discipline provide early boost to flat energy shield and later it's not so hard. of course it works best when all you really care in items is ES res and +skills (so casters)
although i am now thinking about slayer/pathfinder scion with ci as a melee version of what I like

as for life flask... how many new bosses allow restoring flasks easily? i think only Drox does.

 

[Jaedar]

as for life flask... how many new bosses allow restoring flasks easily? i think only Drox does.

Even without restores life flasks provide some thousands extra hp total. You won't benefit from most of it unless you're facing fairly slow dots, but even so it also helps avoiding being two-shot, whereas es needs to not take damage for 4 seconds to start recovery iirc.

 

[janior]

You have things like faster start of energy shield recovery, recharge rate, life regen to es regen to counterplay life flask, how much instant flask even restores? 900hp? 1000hp? its not that big

 

[Shadenuat]

for 4 seconds to start recovery

uh that's unbuffed

increased ES recharge can get to 1-2 secs.
then there's healrth regen=es regen, vaal discipline, leech

Yeah I am kinda surprised how ez it turned out in the end. It was a daring all or nothing experiment for me as last time I chickened out; but this time going CI at like level 60 was best decision and I am not sure I want to play health at all now.

 

[lukaszek]

deterministic system > RNG

 

[Sharpedge]

for 4 seconds to start recovery

uh that's unbuffed

increased ES recharge can get to 1-2 secs.
then there's healrth regen=es regen, vaal discipline, leech

Yeah I am kinda surprised how ez it turned out in the end. It was a daring all or nothing experiment for me as last time I chickened out; but this time going CI at like level 60 was best decision and I am not sure I want to play health at all now.

Its even worse in trade league, with easy access to items like Geofri's Sanctuary it is possible to reach 20k+ energy shield. Here is an example:
https://poe.ninja/challenge/builds/...aos-Inoculation&sort=energy-shield&dps=Vortex

 

[Alpan]

That link is a case study in what makes PoE great and obscene.

 

[Shadenuat]

i got 20 roks and can open seriously sirius guy. never replaying this atlas again
and dont want to fight these bosses 4 times again either

got to this basically on 4 link Bane in a Doedre Scorn.

also from all defensive options in the game the one I found works the best is not getting hit.

 

[Gerrard]

The passive tree will be overhauled in PoE 2. Whether this will afford them the possibility to make changes to it as they see fit is another matter.

The skill gem changes they showed would allow them to overhaul the game, but so far the new gems they introduced after ExileCon don't indicate them having plans to do so.

That link is a case study in what makes PoE great and obscene.

 

[Sykar]

How is this degenerate crap fun?