Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

[Eyestabber]

Wokener fight is complete and utter trash. Even reddit knows at this point. I'm taking a break from the game. It was fun for these last few weeks, but the conqueror hide and seek -> wokener again is simply not worth my time. It's pure undiluted garbage, and there isn't even a silver lining when it comes to the reward.

PoE 2 seems to be heading in the right direction from what little I saw. This game seriously needs to cut down on the bloat. A real crafting system would also be nice, but that won't happen because their entire business model is centered around gambling.

At least they ditched fusings. Shame about losing a steady source of income, tho. I must have made like 2E just by selling the dream of a cheap six link to dumbasses who can't into basic math.

Maybe later I'll post my take on every single league mechanic. Sneak peak: Alva best waifu, 10/10 would murder not-aztecs again.

 

[janior]

Speaking of crafting, made nice helmet for the next build, rolled t3 on warlord prefix and its still good XD, the nice thing is I couldn't get anything useless on that prefix, happy with it

 

[Shadenuat]

PoE 2 seems to be heading in the right direction from what little I saw. This game seriously needs to cut down on the bloat. A real crafting system would also be nice, but that won't happen because their entire business model is centered around gambling.

At least they ditched fusings.

In current game to be competetive you need 1 good linked chest and, if skills are from similar damage group, you can even change skills or level new ones without too much trouble.

In their new system, every skill can have 6L and be modified by jews/chromatics. let it sink in for a while.

Of course maybe it's my superstition taking over me; but I a) believe that every change to system has choices and consequences and b) they will find a way for you to grind and inhale the currency dust, because that is just their nature.

 

[Eyestabber]

"In their new system, every skill can have 6L and be modified by jews/chromatics. let it sink in for a while."

From what I understood of the videos, socket count will be deterministic on armor pieces and gems will have a number of sockets ranging from 2-5, with the possibility of xp transfer between gems. The coloring seems to be easier with the introduction of 2 color sockets. No retarded rng crafting involved as far as these systems are concerned.

The crafting is the main downside of the game for me, specially coming from Median 's incredible system. And everyone saying "durr git gud and l2craft" is a retard because every method boils down to rng bullshit. The entire game is about collecting and trading gambling chips with varying odds.

Me personally? I d much rather sell my chips and buy whatever I need. Not gonna lie, I did make some profit crafting ES body armor and vaaling skill gems, but it's all rng bs.

Out of 7 20-0 discipline gems I got 2x 21, one vaal disciple and 4 bricks. More than doubled my investment, but that shit is no skill, only luck. Everyone I talked to assured me my vaaling run was lucky.

There is one exception: 5-links. Nearly perfect rolled tremor rods can be bought for like a vaal, 5 linked for 10c and sold for 25c. But it requires dealing with the terrible trade system, which isn't good for your health.

 

[Shadenuat]

me: equips ring

Veritania: anime girl pout face

Spoiler

poe forum: "i take 4 flasks with anti freeze can't win fight"

 

[Shadenuat]

From what I understood of the videos, socket count will be deterministic on armor pieces and gems will have a number of sockets ranging from 2-5, with the possibility of xp transfer between gems. The coloring seems to be easier with the introduction of 2 color sockets. No retarded rng crafting involved as far as these systems are concerned.

i've read this https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/dxc334/my_notes_on_the_poe2_skill_gem_system/

and it felt like there's still enough ways to introduce RNG

basically now if you have 6 link and want to swap skill, you just do it. in new system, you will have to crab/buy 6 link gem.

The crafting is the main downside of the game for me, specially coming from Median 's incredible system. And everyone saying "durr git gud and l2craft" is a retard because every method boils down to rng bullshit

i spent around 600+ alts already trying to roll +chaos on dagger. in the end I got +1 all chaos skills dagger from random 12 american alice daggers falling out on some random map.
as a way to troll me it also has +90 crit on it.


So to trigger conqueror you need high level map equal+ to watchstoned maps; but to continue triggering him you can use low level 1-3 maps. basically from 3 maps only 1st one has to be high level.
where's logic

 

[Sharpedge]

"In their new system, every skill can have 6L and be modified by jews/chromatics. let it sink in for a while."

From what I understood of the videos, socket count will be deterministic on armor pieces and gems will have a number of sockets ranging from 2-5, with the possibility of xp transfer between gems. The coloring seems to be easier with the introduction of 2 color sockets. No retarded rng crafting involved as far as these systems are concerned.

The crafting is the main downside of the game for me, specially coming from Median 's incredible system. And everyone saying "durr git gud and l2craft" is a retard because every method boils down to rng bullshit. The entire game is about collecting and trading gambling chips with varying odds.

Me personally? I d much rather sell my chips and buy whatever I need. Not gonna lie, I did make some profit crafting ES body armor and vaaling skill gems, but it's all rng bs.

Out of 7 20-0 discipline gems I got 2x 21, one vaal disciple and 4 bricks. More than doubled my investment, but that shit is no skill, only luck. Everyone I talked to assured me my vaaling run was lucky.

There is one exception: 5-links. Nearly perfect rolled tremor rods can be bought for like a vaal, 5 linked for 10c and sold for 25c. But it requires dealing with the terrible trade system, which isn't good for your health.

It is based on chance, yes. However, like all things based on chance, you can calculate the probability of rolling what you want and if the item you are trying to make will on average sell for more than the effort invested into making it. Sometimes, the answer is indeed, "I will make profit in the long run" and it is investments like these that people will typically try to craft. It isn't fun to do however and is incredibly time consuming (have fun buying fossils in bulk for example), which is why I usually only try to craft my own upgrades rather than trying to craft for profit.

 

[SirSingAlot]

now that prices of new influenced Exalted Orbs have come down on STD, i cannot wait to slam some gear of mine.
actually super hyped as some outcomes would be insane, but hey, even if i brick its a free mos, so eh.

will report back

 

[Eyestabber]

Shadenuat

I dunno dude, I'm optimistic. If anything, moving the linking into the gems themselves will make late game respecs much easier, as you could buy and sell gem sets, as opposed to individual gems, cutting down on the time spent in hideout warrior mode. But ofc, I read that Jewellers will be kept in the game, so I'm guessing you'll now be able to six link a gem, but COME ON, it's a HUGE improvement compared to body armors. Gems are deterministic, body amour has six trillion variables. Removing the sockets and links as a factor when comparing weapons and armours will make the game much better.

Sharpedge

False, and that's due to my main gripe with the game: odds are kept hidden for players at all times. Streamers running big tests like this guy* is the very best we have to guesstimate the odds of gambling aka "crafting" in PoE. The video I linked is VERY informative and the main reason why I ditched all my plans of trying to link ANYTHING. The odds are abysmal and fusings are only good for currency flipping and adjusting links in 4-slot gear. I would have zero problem with the crafting system if every time I hovered a vaal orb over a gem a tooltip said something like "Vaal discipline: 10%, Level up: 20%, level down: 10%, quality up: x%" and so on. But no, vague hints are all we get and the game relies on the player having a gambling addiction. Not sure if it was a coincidence or not, but I saw an ad for online poker on the POEreddit front page. Should've taken a screenshot.

And make no mistake: I think the economy of PoE is nothing short of a work of genius. For YEARS online games had the "money becomes meaningless late game" issue, and PoE found a solution by adding natural sinks to currency. Who would've thunk real world economics could work in vidya game, huh? But these gambles should be calculated based off reliable information provided by the game itself, which is sadly not a thing. And the sheer amount of currencies is an insane bloat that should be cut down asap. Do we SERIOUSLY NEED divination cards for more divination cards? Prophecies like "YOU WILL READ A BOOOOOK!"? A gazillion old league mechanics that range from barely noticeable to "WTF IS THIS BS KILLING ME OVER AND OVER WHILE EVERYTHING ELSE GETS ONE SHOT!?". The bloat needs some culling.

But most importantly, the game needs a "reboot" as far as the power creep is concerned. Melee becoming non-viable is a "natural" thing that eventually happens to ALL games like this one, simply because there is no fucking way to obtain a "perfect" estimation of how much "range" is actually worth. But if you look at something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoIvQsjuaeI

You'll notice that:

1) Witch always was the best base class and NECRO always has been the best ascension BUT
2) Ascendancies were pretty varied "back in the day" and there is a clear trend towards concentration. And yeah, I know HC has different meta, but it doesn't really matter, the point stands:

Players become better at the game -> meta builds become more powerful -> game is reajusted to account for meta builds -> viability of other builds goes down -> players adopt meta builds out of frustration (because only a retard enjoys losing "for fun") -> rinse and repeat until we reach ONE-SHOT-LEAGUE aka Metamorph.

And another thing: the retards saying "the game shouldn't be balanced around meta builds, durr" are really, REALLY fucking stupid. All games should be balanced around the people that actually know how to play them. The only way to "balance around non-meta aka shit" builds is to make everything piss easy. There is absolutely no way to balance around the infinite ways in which one can fuck up his character. And EVEN IF the game were made piss easy, these same people wouldn't be happy because now everyone can farm everything -> inflation -> everything is now worthless save for a handful or items that cost like 3k exalts.

A reboot would be most welcome. I would LOVE to see PoE 2 being launched and Witch is now the shittiest base class and Marauder is KING. Just to AT LEAST give the game a couple months of enjoyable lifespan.



*

Spreadsheet at 5 minutes.

 

[janior]

lol

 

[Shadenuat]

that's how probablity works

the links needed to link is between 15 to 3675 fusings.

you're welcome to use this information to plan your character.

 

[janior]

just buy your six link

 

[Sharpedge]

Shadenuat

I dunno dude, I'm optimistic. If anything, moving the linking into the gems themselves will make late game respecs much easier, as you could buy and sell gem sets, as opposed to individual gems, cutting down on the time spent in hideout warrior mode. But ofc, I read that Jewellers will be kept in the game, so I'm guessing you'll now be able to six link a gem, but COME ON, it's a HUGE improvement compared to body armors. Gems are deterministic, body amour has six trillion variables. Removing the sockets and links as a factor when comparing weapons and armours will make the game much better.

Sharpedge

False, and that's due to my main gripe with the game: odds are kept hidden for players at all times. Streamers running big tests like this guy* is the very best we have to guesstimate the odds of gambling aka "crafting" in PoE. The video I linked is VERY informative and the main reason why I ditched all my plans of trying to link ANYTHING. The odds are abysmal and fusings are only good for currency flipping and adjusting links in 4-slot gear. I would have zero problem with the crafting system if every time I hovered a vaal orb over a gem a tooltip said something like "Vaal discipline: 10%, Level up: 20%, level down: 10%, quality up: x%" and so on. But no, vague hints are all we get and the game relies on the player having a gambling addiction. Not sure if it was a coincidence or not, but I saw an ad for online poker on the POEreddit front page. Should've taken a screenshot.

And make no mistake: I think the economy of PoE is nothing short of a work of genius. For YEARS online games had the "money becomes meaningless late game" issue, and PoE found a solution by adding natural sinks to currency. Who would've thunk real world economics could work in vidya game, huh? But these gambles should be calculated based off reliable information provided by the game itself, which is sadly not a thing. And the sheer amount of currencies is an insane bloat that should be cut down asap. Do we SERIOUSLY NEED divination cards for more divination cards? Prophecies like "YOU WILL READ A BOOOOOK!"? A gazillion old league mechanics that range from barely noticeable to "WTF IS THIS BS KILLING ME OVER AND OVER WHILE EVERYTHING ELSE GETS ONE SHOT!?". The bloat needs some culling.

But most importantly, the game needs a "reboot" as far as the power creep is concerned. Melee becoming non-viable is a "natural" thing that eventually happens to ALL games like this one, simply because there is no fucking way to obtain a "perfect" estimation of how much "range" is actually worth. But if you look at something like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EoIvQsjuaeI

You'll notice that:

1) Witch always was the best base class and NECRO always has been the best ascension BUT
2) Ascendancies were pretty varied "back in the day" and there is a clear trend towards concentration. And yeah, I know HC has different meta, but it doesn't really matter, the point stands:

Players become better at the game -> meta builds become more powerful -> game is reajusted to account for meta builds -> viability of other builds goes down -> players adopt meta builds out of frustration (because only a retard enjoys losing "for fun") -> rinse and repeat until we reach ONE-SHOT-LEAGUE aka Metamorph.

And another thing: the retards saying "the game shouldn't be balanced around meta builds, durr" are really, REALLY fucking stupid. All games should be balanced around the people that actually know how to play them. The only way to "balance around non-meta aka shit" builds is to make everything piss easy. There is absolutely no way to balance around the infinite ways in which one can fuck up his character. And EVEN IF the game were made piss easy, these same people wouldn't be happy because now everyone can farm everything -> inflation -> everything is now worthless save for a handful or items that cost like 3k exalts.

A reboot would be most welcome. I would LOVE to see PoE 2 being launched and Witch is now the shittiest base class and Marauder is KING. Just to AT LEAST give the game a couple months of enjoyable lifespan.



*

Spreadsheet at 5 minutes.

We actually have a very good idea of how fusings work, firstly because the devs have commented on it historically (on reddit of all places, I can dig up the quotes if you want) and secondly because we have had people do very extensive tests on it. Here is an example of a test with a sample size of 100,000 fusings:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/75t1c9/i_used_100000_fusings_for_science_statistics/
The confidence interval is given there.

As for how mods are rolled on items, that has also been tested extensively, but even more so, we have the weightings from the game files. Whilst you won't conventionally find this information in game, you can find it outside of the game. Here is an example of 1 of the very few public tools for crafting https://github.com/Gloorf/POECraftingShenanigans/releases. Typically these types of tools are kept private, simply because sharing them undermines your own ability to make a profit but make no mistake, they exist and you can calculate the odds of most aspects of item crafting if you put in the effort.

 

[Shadenuat]

just buy your six link

SSF

Whilst you won't conventionally find this information in game, you can find it outside of the game.

except Staby argument is that for important core rpg mechanics you shouldn't have to, and he is right.

as for fighting power creep, for that you need to make everyone weaker, and since poe players are used to particular status quo, that would piss them all off.

I would LOVE to see PoE 2 being launched and Witch is now the shittiest base class and Marauder is KING

that's just shit design, banal switch flipping.

look at D2, while there are classes easier to farm, during good days people still played all of them.

 

[Eyestabber]

Fusing/linking is a trash system and the devs themselves know this, which is why they are ditching it for PoE 2. Pure random at lottery odds = trash. You can always claim that odds can be calculated on average while blissfully ignoring the fact that there just aren't enough rolls available for a single person for things to actually average out over the timespan of a single league. Only the filthy rich will be able to blow 5000C worth of currency and wait for reliable returns on average. Everyone else will either be filthy rich or broke long before things average out, and their wealth status will hold absolutely no relation to their skill levels at all. Or, you know, just avoid the garbage system altogether and currency flip instead.

At the very least linking could've been pseudo random, becoming deterministic after a certain cap. But no, nerds with a gambling addiction make for good pay-piggies, as GGG found out.

Whilst you won't conventionally find this information in game

False, and that's due to my main gripe with the game: odds are kept hidden for players at all times.

Seriously tho:

https://www.median-xl.com/

If you never played, you should. Learn how crafting with MOs, TUs and Runewords work in median and then compare it to this RNG-fuckfest and weep.

 

[Sharpedge]

Fusing/linking is a trash system and the devs themselves know this, which is why they are ditching it for PoE 2. Pure random at lottery odds = trash. You can always claim that odds can be calculated on average while blissfully ignoring the fact that there just aren't enough rolls available for a single person for things to actually average out over the timespan of a single league. Only the filthy rich will be able to blow 5000C worth of currency and wait for reliable returns on average. Everyone else will either be filthy rich or broke long before things average out, and their wealth status will hold absolutely no relation to their skill levels at all. Or, you know, just avoid the garbage system altogether and currency flip instead.

At the very least linking could've been pseudo random, becoming deterministic after a certain cap. But no, nerds with a gambling addiction make for good pay-piggies, as GGG found out.

Whilst you won't conventionally find this information in game

False, and that's due to my main gripe with the game: odds are kept hidden for players at all times.

The information is in the game files, you won't encounter it in game but if you feel like digging around with https://github.com/OmegaK2/PyPoE you can find it.

 

[janior]

you can play some deaths oath build, no need for any links on that chest to work or some build that uses shroud of the lightless so you need to only 5 link it

 

[Eyestabber]

you can play some deaths oath build, no need for any links on that chest to work or some build that uses shroud of the lightless so you need to only 5 link it

The point keeps going over your head, I see.

 

[Gerrard]

Even Korean grinder MMOs went away from pure RNG bullshit upgrade/enchanting/whatever systems that were a staple of their design introducing mechanics that would help actually reach the expected average investment (like slightly increasing the chance of success after each failure), because people got fucking tired of that bullshit.

But don't let redditartds hear you say that.

 

[Eyestabber]

But but but, if you put enough chips on the table and spin the wheel enough times EVENTUALLY you'll hit your number and everything averages out, bro. What, can't you do statistics and shit!?

 

[Alpan]

I've been following and playing PoE in some form or another since 2012. I even used to post threads on the official forums denouncing the economy and RNG gating way back when and it would reach multiple pages. So I could almost agree with you, Eyestabber, but the reality is that GGG has consistently made the game more rewarding and accessible since the time I started playing. As of right now a player can access and complete probably 99% of content and have a perfectly good time. My SSF experience this league, all the way up to the highest tier of maps and end-game bosses, proves it. If the remaining 1% of content and exponential, strictly unnecessary character power demand playing the economy, trading, or partaking in RNG feasts -- so be it. I think it's fair, as the scope is so constrained. And the payoff is much greater, and memorable, when the slot machine does roll in the player's favor.

Addendum: That said, I think it's clear that GGG recognizes the item linking as the most fundamentally broken system in the game, and it's getting fixed in PoE 2.

 

[Jaedar]

Eyestabber is basically right, but I do enjoy playing Poe and sperging out with theorycrafting anyway.

Less now that I've played most/all archetypes to maps, but even so.

 

[Eyestabber]

The game is a solid 8 in my book. Quite enjoyable, but it's frustrating when a good game fails to be great due to a handful of glaring flaws that could be easily addressed if someone could ever be bothered with the task.

I get the feeling the game diluted itself over the years, specially after "Fall of Oriath" and I would've enjoyed it even more in a less bloated state. It's only natural that the company involved would slowly but surely switch from small-but-dense-in-quality towards "more shit = more money".

Endless Space 2 underwent the exact same decline, except much faster. Modern game design is cancerous by default. People need to learn that "New mechanics!!!" is NOT always a good thing. Less is more and all that.

 

[Alpan]

I agree that there's definitely some content bloat going on with PoE, despite the general level of quality. That's the corner GGG painted themselves into when they decided to go with a games-as-a-service model, though it has been extremely successful and profitable for them: Their marketing and revenue cycle depends on pumping out new content on a reliable schedule (which is something they figured out as they went along -- updates used to be more sporadic and variable in size before 2.0.0).

 

[Jaedar]

I get the feeling the game diluted itself over the years, specially after "Fall of Oriath" and I would've enjoyed it even more in a less bloated state. It's only natural that the company involved would slowly but surely switch from small-but-dense-in-quality towards "more shit = more money".

I mean, you're not wrong, but man was running the same four acts 3 different times worse than now. The real problem is the complexity of the mechanics they put out now. Used to be they added stuff like shrines and essences, fairly minor inclusions. Now they tend to add more complicated stuff, some of which really feels like it benefits from keeping a spreadsheet (betrayal).

Part of the problem though is that most builds invalidate most content by the endgame, so it rarely matters what enemies/bosses you are facing, because you are annihilating them before they have a chance to do much. So they kinda have to rely on these complicated addons to add variety.

I also think the problems with meta builds, build power differences and balancing thereof is essentially what Sawyer was trying to avoid when he made the other PoE. Massive build variety but impossible balancing vs good balance but no build differentiation, which is better and why? (the former, obv but it's still flawed)