Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Daidre]

I kinda dislike idea about this one being anywhere close to melee and stalling caster progression in early chapters. There is abyss of diminished usefulness between 5 level cleric and 4 level cleric + 1 level monk at the end of chapter 1.

Stinking Cloud + Animate Dead + Pet + Delay Poison turns him into one-man-army.

 

[ArchAngel]

19 Ecclesi / 1 Monk is good - particularly that they can't wear armor.

So you are sacrificing lvl 9 spells and slower progression for a bit more AC... not a good idea. Only if you are solo or on ironman.

 

[Cael]

Since there is a Cha-based Monk and a Cha-based Druid, the obvious speaks for itself, no?

 

[Haplo]

I kinda dislike idea about this one being anywhere close to melee and stalling caster progression in early chapters. There is abyss of diminished usefulness between 5 level cleric and 4 level cleric + 1 level monk at the end of chapter 1.

Stinking Cloud + Animate Dead + Pet + Delay Poison turns him into one-man-army.

Okay then, pick the single Monk level after level 5.

So you are sacrificing lvl 9 spells and slower progression for a bit more AC... not a good idea. Only if you are solo or on ironman.

How is adding 1 level monk sacrificing level 9 spells?
With smart play you reach level 20 in Act V in full 6-man party.

 

[Haplo]

I do not think it will. It should not, anyway.
But an Animal Companion on a Mystic Theurge build is a pretty terrible idea. Understand that even if you get AC from both Feyspeaker and Sylvan Sorcerer, it WON'T gain new levels/abilities when you pick Mystic Theurge levels. So it will be horribly underpowered.

 

[ArchAngel]

So you are sacrificing lvl 9 spells and slower progression for a bit more AC... not a good idea. Only if you are solo or on ironman.

How is adding 1 level monk sacrificing level 9 spells?
With smart play you reach level 20 in Act V in full 6-man party.

This is how:

19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 3+1 3+1
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 4 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1 4+1

You sacrifice another lvl 9 and lvl 8 slot as well as one caster level for effects, duration and beating SR.

 

[Haplo]

Well, in case of a class that uses Wis as its main stat anyway, I think I prefer the safety of having decent AC (and a free feat - may even pick Crane Style if you fight sometimes & improved saves) over 2 spell slots and 1 caster level.

 

[Haplo]

If you don't mind being a gimp for 2/3 of the game, go ahead.

 

[entr0py]

I have just started my playthrough with a kind-of-summoner type of build. I was also torn between all the different options, namely Sylvan sorcerer, druid, herald caller cleric and monster tactician.
At first I started with herald caller, but soon after realized that the healing I need can be covered by an inquisitor (monster tactician) while the latter also gets the very nice team feats for all her summons (with augmented summoning and the other feat which gives +1 summon) and with animal domain + boon companion can get a full-fledged animal companion who also benefits from said team feats. Not to mention her monster summoning spells are 1 minute/level instead of 1 round/level, which is pretty cool and can cast them 8 times already at lvl 1.

As I'm absolutely not familiar with Pathfinder ruleset, could you guys help me out a bit? I went with a dex based build, as monster tactician can't wear heavy armor anyway and would rather just use ranged attacks instead to protect her. Does the team feats where you get an attack of opportunity when your team mate scores a critical (or any similar team feat which nets you an aoo based on your other team mates' action) triggers for ranged weapons as well, or you have to be in melee range?

 

[Daidre]

Monster Tactician has one downside that is not obvious from the first glance - he can't have more than one summoning spell active, creatures are replaced on recast of his class ability. But everyone else who use actual spells could spam whole army of summons without any restrictions.

Bow is also a bit questionable choice - best teamwork feats work only for melee, like Precise Strike, Outflank and Seize the moment and dead weight on archer Tactician. Reach weapon would work better here.

 

[entr0py]

Monster Tactician has one downside that is not obvious from the first glance - he can't have more than one summoning spell active, creatures are replaced on recast of his class ability. But everyone else who use actual spells could spam whole army of summons without any restrictions.

Bow is also a bit questionable choice - best teamwork feats work only for melee, like Precise Strike, Outflank and Seize the moment and dead weight on archer Tactician. Reach weapon would work better here.

Thanks, that was exactly my fear about ranged weapons. Is there any dex-based reach weapon, or I need to take weapon finesse? As for having one summoning spell active I think that's fine, don't want to necessarily summon armies but will have some help (meat shields) available basically every fight who could cause some damage as well with teamwork feats.

Also if I have to be in reach, having 4 summons and an animal companion ganking the enemy at the very least it might get pretty crowded already.

 

[Sykar]

19 Ecclesi / 1 Monk is good - particularly that they can't wear armor.

Eccli is a pure caster. What exactly does that one monk level offer that it warrants sacrificing spell progression, spell effectiveness and beating SR?

 

[Haplo]

You don't really sacrifice that much. 1 caster level isn't a lot. And SR is rarely an issue in Kingmaker. You gain like 13 AC. Actually more like 18 if lawfull good due to the monk exclusive robes. Also a free feat (possibly skipping prerequisites for example for Crane Style, if you like to swing a weapon sometimes) and better saves.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

from the other thread

fyi the EE added a scroll vendor to your capital, its inventory scales with your capital's arcane statistic

wizards and other casters that learn from scrolls see a significant boost from this

 

[Sykar]

You don't really sacrifice that much. 1 caster level isn't a lot. And SR is rarely an issue in Kingmaker. You gain like 13 AC. Actually more like 18 if lawfull good due to the monk exclusive robes. Also a free feat (possibly skipping prerequisites for example for Crane Style, if you like to swing a weapon sometimes) and better saves.

I still do not see the point delaying spells by an entire level just to turn a terrible melee class into an at best a mediocre one.

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Does multiclassing(and, to some extent, the "hybrid" classes) lose some appeal when you're controlling an entire party of six rather than (as typical in pnp) just your own character?

 

[Daidre]

Thanks, that was exactly my fear about ranged weapons. Is there any dex-based reach weapon, or I need to take weapon finesse? As for having one summoning spell active I think that's fine, don't want to necessarily summon armies but will have some help (meat shields) available basically every fight who could cause some damage as well with teamwork feats.

There is no finessable reach weapons. Inquisitor has access to Long Spear with simple weapon proficiency from beginning, if you chose Shelyn as Deity you'd get Glaive proficiency for free but to get max from teamwork feats (Outflank + Combat Reflexes + Seize the Moment) high crit weapon works best - this means Fauchard (Exotic) or Bardiche (Martial). I'd go with Glaive for early game -> Fauchard or Bardiche later depending on what you find.

You can also get a reach from Enlarge spell. Then Elven Curve Blade is interesting option. It is exotic weapon (but elves get proficiency with martial feat), has best crit range and compatible with finesse and DEX. Lot of good weapons with this one.

 

[Yosharian]

Thanks, that was exactly my fear about ranged weapons. Is there any dex-based reach weapon, or I need to take weapon finesse? As for having one summoning spell active I think that's fine, don't want to necessarily summon armies but will have some help (meat shields) available basically every fight who could cause some damage as well with teamwork feats.

There is no finessable reach weapons. Inquisitor has access to Long Spear with simple weapon proficiency from beginning, if you chose Shelyn as Deity you'd get Glaive proficiency for free but to get max from teamwork feats (Outflank + Combat Reflexes + Seize the Moment) high crit weapon works best - this means Fauchard (Exotic) or Bardiche (Martial). I'd go with Glaive for early game -> Fauchard or Bardiche later depending on what you find.

You can also get a reach from Enlarge spell. Then Elven Curve Blade is interesting option. It is exotic weapon (but elves get proficiency with martial feat), has best crit range and compatible with finesse and DEX. Lot of good weapons with this one.

Oh wait. Shelyn gets Glaive for free?

What domains can Shelyn get?

Edit: meh, no animal domain, not worth it

You know there is an insanely good Glaive available lategame.

 

[Daidre]

Ladies and Gentlemen, what are your opinions on Blight Druids? Also, does it make sense to give Druids reach weapons, like the glaive?

Sacrificing the pet for a couple of bad class features and some decent domain spells is not a best deal you can make. And spells can only be used in domain spell slot so it is maximum one cast of each per day. That is why best druid archetype in the game is Defender of True World. And it is very appropriate for campaign.

Pet is main melee contribution from the druid, but if you want Druid there too than Wild Shape is his best instrument. Druid can even cast in animal shape with Nature Bond and 5-attack with highest BAB from smilodon form is better than poking enemies with sharp stick aka the Longspear.

 

[Daidre]

Oh wait. Shelyn gets Glaive for free?

What domains can Shelyn get?

Yes, her clerics (not Caller) and inquisitors can use Glaives without feats.
Domains are Air, Charm, Good, Luck and Protection. Inq does not get bonus spells, so I often take Good or Luck for abilities. Touch of Good is really useful to get through high DC skill checks.

Irory deity weapon is interesting too - they get Improved Unarmed Strike for cheaper access to Crane Style.

Edit: I use one of them often enough for Sacred Huntmasters. They do not need Animal domain.
Edit 2: Owlcat added Madness domain to the game. It is available to Gyronna.

Spoiler

 

[Haplo]

You know there is an insanely good Glaive available lategame.

I'd not say it's insanely good. It's decent and has a really nice buff (but you can use that keeping it as a secondary arm). It's... medium. Quite a lot weaker then the best greataxes, fauchards, heavy flail, bastards, longswords, elven curved blade, estoc, even falcata if you have the 2nd DLC.
Also 20/x3 criticals suck for teamwork combos.

 

[Haplo]

You don't really sacrifice that much. 1 caster level isn't a lot. And SR is rarely an issue in Kingmaker. You gain like 13 AC. Actually more like 18 if lawfull good due to the monk exclusive robes. Also a free feat (possibly skipping prerequisites for example for Crane Style, if you like to swing a weapon sometimes) and better saves.

I still do not see the point delaying spells by an entire level just to turn a terrible melee class into an at best a mediocre one.

I see the point of turning a wet tissue paper glass cannon into a moderately survivable one - if the price is a mere one level.

 

[Yosharian]

Oh wait. Shelyn gets Glaive for free?

What domains can Shelyn get?

Yes, her clerics (not Caller) and inquisitors can use Glaives without feats.
Domains are Air, Charm, Good, Luck and Protection. Inq does not get bonus spells, so I often take Good or Luck for abilities. Touch of Good is really useful to get through high DC skill checks.

Irory deity weapon is interesting too - they get Improved Unarmed Strike for cheaper access to Crane Style.

Edit: I use one of them often enough for Sacred Huntmasters. They do not need Animal domain.
Edit 2: Owlcat added Madness domain to the game. It is available to Gyronna.

Spoiler

Madness is phenomenal but does it even work? It didn't on release.

I don't think I would give up the Animal domain just for a free feat.

And certainly not Guarded Hearth.

 

[Yosharian]

You know there is an insanely good Glaive available lategame.

I'd not say it's insanely good. It's decent and has a really nice buff (but you can use that keeping it as a secondary arm). It's... medium. Quite a lot weaker then the best greataxes, fauchards, heavy flail, bastards, longswords, elven curved blade, estoc, even falcata if you have the 2nd DLC.
Also 20/x3 criticals suck for teamwork combos.

4d6 elemental/holy damage, +5 enchantment and a phenomenal long-lasting party buff spell for free?

How the fuck is that medium bro

I don't even use those teamwork critical feats, so meh on that one

 

[Haplo]

Does multiclassing(and, to some extent, the "hybrid" classes) lose some appeal when you're controlling an entire party of six rather than (as typical in pnp) just your own character?

Guess so. But small dips (mainly monk for a huge defensive boost with a single level) are still very tempting.