Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[VentilatorOfDoom]

Explain Kinetic Knight to me. How would you go about a Valerie KK build? Or would you use the standard kineticist for it? Would that be any good anyway on unfair?

 

[ArchAngel]

Explain Kinetic Knight to me. How would you go about a Valerie KK build? Or would you use the standard kineticist for it? Would that be any good anyway on unfair?

Kinetic Knight is nice, I did a full run with Valerie as my KK tank. Not on Unfair. For unfair you probably want full Kineticist instead so she can use her CC abilities when needed (like Deadly Earth) and then switch to "sword" and board.

But if you are going to play below Unfair then KK, focus on Earth and Air (or Fire instead of Air). Water gives you are shield but you are already going to use a real shield but both earth and water are useless vs some enemies like ghosts. You need Air or Fire (touch attack version) for those. Air has better feats and defensive ability.

 

[Haplo]

Explain Kinetic Knight to me. How would you go about a Valerie KK build? Or would you use the standard kineticist for it? Would that be any good anyway on unfair?

Kinetic Knight is nice, I did a full run with Valerie as my KK tank. Not on Unfair. For unfair you probably want full Kineticist instead so she can use her CC abilities when needed (like Deadly Earth) and then switch to "sword" and board.

But if you are going to play below Unfair then KK, focus on Earth and Air (or Fire instead of Air). Water gives you are shield but you are already going to use a real shield but both earth and water are useless vs some enemies like ghosts. You need Air or Fire (touch attack version) for those. Air has better feats and defensive ability.

When you write Air, I think you actually mean Electric? If so, I agree. Air would suck, tho.

She can tank/offtank decently well - below Unfair. For Unfair you'd probably want some Water Kinetic Blade Kineticist or Psychokineticist Monk.

Also she's an absolutely awesome support character. With Electric Magnetic Infusion enemies have -4 AC vs attacks from other party members (but Electric is Touch, so pretty accurate anyway) and the Air Celerity ability allows me to keep my party Perma-Hasted already nearly from the beginning of Act 2 - a first for me! Has far surpassed Linzi in Haste serving efficiency. Plus is on Dazzling duty as usual to keep enemies shaken and enable Shatter Defenses for everyone. This time around deals decent damage too.
Fire would shortcut Dazzling/Dreadful, but I'm picking these feats manually and went for Earth 2nd for the DR and Bowling instead.

I really like her that way, although probably too fragile for Unfair. Nothing some creative multiclassing couldn't fix, I guess.

 

[ArchAngel]

Yes I mean touch attack version of Air since Earth only has physical attack version. Don't mention Psychokineticist when that does not exist in this game.
How did you get perma Haste? it always costs 1 burn to have it last more than 1 round.

 

[Haplo]

What do you mean Psychokineticist doesn't exist?

Yeah, Celerity costs 1 Burn. She has 9 Burn capacity and pretty much nothing else to spend it on (except Defensive power ups)... so she spams it. Well, maybe at level 5-ish it was not enough to last between rests (but I also have Linzi & Octavia), but now at 10 it pretty much is.

 

[ArchAngel]

What do you mean Psychokineticist doesn't exist?

Yeah, Celerity costs 1 Burn. She has 9 Burn capacity and pretty much nothing else to spend it on (except Defensive power ups)... so she spams it. Well, maybe at level 5-ish it was not enough to last between rests (but I also have Linzi & Octavia), but now at 10 it pretty much is.

Ups. I forgot Psychokinetics also exists lol :D

I used her burns to buff up DR from Earth. She could survive a lot of punishment.

 

[Haplo]

Well, she's offtanking in my case, so no need. My main SS is picking the bulk of enemy attention.

 

[Efe]

pick one and get a mercenary for the other

 

[Yosharian]

Mystic Theurge is kinda bad, missing out on an animal companion in favour of domains is bad, take Boon Companion feat and your pet owns

 

[santino27]

Isn't an animal companion supposed to be a suplement/bodyguard, instead of the main "attraction" of a druid?

Animal companions are extremely powerful in early-to-mid game, which is, conversely, when your character is probably the weakest. Between that and the fact that they dramatically improve party encumbrance (their strength counts toward total party carrying weight), it's hard to go wrong with an animal companion.

 

[Delterius]

So what's wrong with a Feyspeaker/Sylvan Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge build? According to the description of animal companions in version 2.0.2, their levels accumulate as long as the class you are leveling is one of those who allow to have a companion (in this case, both Feyspeaker and Sylvan Sorcerer).

TBH you'll be so far behind in your spell level acquisition for the sorcerer I don't feel its worth it. Then again, I don't like playing sorcerers at all because of that.

 

[Delterius]

So what's wrong with a Feyspeaker/Sylvan Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge build? According to the description of animal companions in version 2.0.2, their levels accumulate as long as the class you are leveling is one of those who allow to have a companion (in this case, both Feyspeaker and Sylvan Sorcerer).

TBH you'll be so far behind in your spell level acquisition for the sorcerer I don't feel its worth it. Then again, I don't like playing sorcerers at all because of that.

If playing a pure Feyspeaker, since he actually gets lower levels for the animal companions, is it wiser to choose an additional domain, like Air or Fire?

God no, the animal companion is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Yosharian]

Isn't an animal companion supposed to be a suplement/bodyguard, instead of the main "attraction" of a druid?

Yes, but Smilodon

 

[Delterius]

Even if you don't go Smilodon, an Animal Companion is almost a free party member.

 

[santino27]

So what's wrong with a Feyspeaker/Sylvan Sorcerer/Mystic Theurge build? According to the description of animal companions in version 2.0.2, their levels accumulate as long as the class you are leveling is one of those who allow to have a companion (in this case, both Feyspeaker and Sylvan Sorcerer).

TBH you'll be so far behind in your spell level acquisition for the sorcerer I don't feel its worth it. Then again, I don't like playing sorcerers at all because of that.

If playing a pure Feyspeaker, since he actually gets lower levels for the animal companions, is it wiser to choose an additional domain, like Air or Fire?

Edit: Daidre is right... Feyspeaker gets animal companion at lvl 1 regardless, so only needs boon companion to make up for up to 4 levels in a non-pet class.

So then the question is animal companion or domain, and animal companion will give you more benefit than pretty much any domain.

 

[Daidre]

I don't get it - where did you find info that feyspeaker's pet is weaker than for other archetypes? It has the same progression as any other pure pet class.
Feyspeaker has other cons:
1) Low bab progression like wizards - they are useless in melee.
2) Slower Wild Shape progression - but this is when druid transforms into animal himself.

But none of it affects pet.

 

[Daidre]

Animal domain is interesting option for Druid. You get extra spell slot that is mostly used for summons but delay companion to level 4. And would need to take Boon Companion at level 5.
This turns Feyspeaker into a bit of luggage until lvl 5, when party at its weakest, but potentially better than starting with pet for Druid Conjurer in long run.

 

[Daidre]

I would say pure Feyspeaker or pure Sylvan Sorcerer is better options than trying to mix them into Mystic Theurge. This PrC also takes away from class features on both sides - Druid loses pet and wild shape progression and sorc loses high level bloodline features.
Both are very solid as pure casters.

It takes really long time for Mystic Theurge to shine but with P:K leveling speed it is tricky - Theurge is doomed to spend at its worst ~ 2/3 of the game.

 

[Daidre]

Pet progression is stacking when both classes have pet. Like 3 levels of Sacred Huntmaster (Inquisitor) are nice for any martial pet-owner like ranger to share teamworks feats through class features without losing pet progression.

Main issue with Mystic Theurge that even when combined from 2 pet classes it is not pet class by itself. This PrC is pointless with less then full 10 level and pet loses 10 level too, but Boon Companion feat compensate only 4 and could be taken only once.

Domain spells are decent - Air has Chain Lightning and Water - Stinking Cloud (!). Others are so-so and it is only one spell slot with often trashy spell available. Fireball is nice for Fire domain but high level spells are lacking.

From powergaming view though if domains are attractive enough it is best to go Gozreh (nature goddess) Ecclesitheurge - cleric archetype that gets access to all deity domain spells and can put primary domain spells in non-domain spell slots. With Water (or Air) and Animal domain it gets pet, almost-druid spellbook, channeling and medium bab.

 

[Daidre]

What build? Pure caster druid like?

Most powerful in this bunch is 20 level Gozreh Ecclesitheurge with Water primary and Animal domains. Gets pet on lvl 4 and compensates this with Boon Companion feat on level 5. Access to full clerical healing feats and spells. WIS - based.

Most powerful Druid-caster would be pure level 20 Druid, I would took Animal Domain to get both domain spell slot and pet if a bit later. Similar to cleric with Boon Companion feat on level 5. Archetype is whether Feyspeaker for extra illusion spells and CHA as main stat or Defender of the True World for some melee capability.

Sylvan Sorcerer is one of the best sorcerer bloodlines with almost-free pet without any downsides. All tasty wizard spells but no healing. CHA-based.

In result: pure casters like this are better off without multi-classing and it is all about what spellbook/RP you want - Druid, Sorc or Cleric. And whether you want another cleric in the party.

 

[Haplo]

19 Ecclesi / 1 Monk is good - particularly that they can't wear armor.

 

[Daidre]

I kinda dislike idea about this one being anywhere close to melee and stalling caster progression in early chapters. There is abyss of diminished usefulness between 5 level cleric and 4 level cleric + 1 level monk at the end of chapter 1.

Stinking Cloud + Animate Dead + Pet + Delay Poison turns him into one-man-army.

 

[ArchAngel]

19 Ecclesi / 1 Monk is good - particularly that they can't wear armor.

So you are sacrificing lvl 9 spells and slower progression for a bit more AC... not a good idea. Only if you are solo or on ironman.

 

[Cael]

Since there is a Cha-based Monk and a Cha-based Druid, the obvious speaks for itself, no?

 

[Haplo]

I kinda dislike idea about this one being anywhere close to melee and stalling caster progression in early chapters. There is abyss of diminished usefulness between 5 level cleric and 4 level cleric + 1 level monk at the end of chapter 1.

Stinking Cloud + Animate Dead + Pet + Delay Poison turns him into one-man-army.

Okay then, pick the single Monk level after level 5.

So you are sacrificing lvl 9 spells and slower progression for a bit more AC... not a good idea. Only if you are solo or on ironman.

How is adding 1 level monk sacrificing level 9 spells?
With smart play you reach level 20 in Act V in full 6-man party.