Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Haplo]

mainly Legendary Proportions self-buff, with 16 levels you won't get another spell pick

Vivi can learn spells from scrolls.

Really? Damn, how did I miss that?
Not sure it's logical, but cool!

 

[sebas]

So, what's the most powerful spellcaster build? Conjurer with initiative pet and feats?

Sent from my CLT-L29 using Tapatalk

 

[Simple Simon]

Sylvan sorcerer conjurer is pretty OP. Can basically field a team yourself and conjuration has a lot of control spells too.

 

[Cael]

Sylvan sorcerer conjurer is pretty OP. Can basically field a team yourself and conjuration has a lot of control spells too.

A conjurer is basically one of two choices for a god-style wizard. The other being transmuter. Conjurer is stronger at lower levels, transmuter at very high levels (spell levels 6+, IIRC).

 

[Urthor]

What does Transmuter do? I took it but it seems like it really does not do much unless you go for the weirdo melee build with the transformations. I just took it for extra haste slots and kind of regret it.

Conjurer seems like you run into the issue of animals not having quit

 

[Cael]

What does Transmuter do? I took it but it seems like it really does not do much unless you go for the weirdo melee build with the transformations. I just took it for extra haste slots and kind of regret it.

Conjurer seems like you run into the issue of animals not having quit

Conjuration has a lot of battlefield control spells. Web, Glitterdust, Evard's Tentacles, Grease, all the wall and fog spells, etc. It also has summons to help with meatshield and space management.

Transmutation has all the enchant and buff spells. Also some debuffs. At higher levels it has things like stone to mud, flesh to stone, disintegrate, stoneskin, polymorph, shapechange, etc. There are many wonderful things you can do with those spells if you have the imagination for it.

 

[Yosharian]

What does Transmuter do? I took it but it seems like it really does not do much unless you go for the weirdo melee build with the transformations. I just took it for extra haste slots and kind of regret it.

Conjurer seems like you run into the issue of animals not having quit

Transmuter sucks ass.

 

[Urthor]

I assume the best non shape infusion for Kineticist is Spindle btw? No burns ranged AOE all the good stuff

 

[Daidre]

Spindle is shape, and one that is pretty difficult to target, too unpredictable. It also allows reflex for half or evasion for full damage avoidance.
I prefer Fan of Flames as low level AOE.

 

[Haplo]

I assume the best non shape infusion for Kineticist is Spindle btw? No burns ranged AOE all the good stuff

Spindle is a shape and its absolutely terrible. It's difficult to reach even 2 enemies with it and it allows save for 1/2 damage (or 0 with evasion).
Regular blast is generally much better (no save, has slight chances to crit).

Like Daidre wrote, Fan of Flames is pretty nice at the beginning. Starting mid-game it's all about Wall and Deadly Earth.
Eruption is pretty nice, but somewhat late - unless you double-dip fire.

 

[hell bovine]

What does Transmuter do? I took it but it seems like it really does not do much unless you go for the weirdo melee build with the transformations. I just took it for extra haste slots and kind of regret it.

It's not the powergamer wizard class, but unless you did something crazy like picked conjuration & evocation for your opposition schools, your transmuter's going to be fine. The aoe disablers (haste, slow, obsidian slow, tar pit) are good, the polymorph buffs aren't half bad either, if you have an animal companion (animal growth, later legendary proportions + greater polymorph). And disintegrate is very good for finishing off regenerating enemies once they're down. Not everything is a troll that comes with instructions for use.

Short version: it's still a wizard. Also, why are you complaining, in the old times we had to play without the arcane merchant, and all we got were lousy 28464 fireball scrolls.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

Specialize in Evocation (heightened sirrocos).

 

[Incendax]

For solo you will definitely want Uncanny Dodge IMO. Dragon Disciple is indeed optional. Your Uncanny Dodge options include Archeologist 2 or Rogue 4 (and Barb 2, but there's an alignment conflict and its not optimal IMO).

It’s worth mentioning that the Robe of Eyes grants Uncanny Dodge, but that is too late for most builds. Might be something to consider if you use the respec mod.

 

[Yosharian]

For solo you will definitely want Uncanny Dodge IMO. Dragon Disciple is indeed optional. Your Uncanny Dodge options include Archeologist 2 or Rogue 4 (and Barb 2, but there's an alignment conflict and its not optimal IMO).

It’s worth mentioning that the Robe of Eyes grants Uncanny Dodge, but that is too late for most builds. Might be something to consider if you use the respec mod.

Yeah and you can't wear the dodge robes you do that

 

[Baelzar]

Forum noob here - is there a collection of the builds suggested in this thread? Or is there a way to search this thread?

 

[Yosharian]

Forum noob here - is there a collection of the builds suggested in this thread? Or is there a way to search this thread?

Not really

 

[JodocusQuak]

Haplo

Thx for the great build. I started a new game around your build on unfair with mercs. And he is crushing it right from the start. Feral mutagen combined with motherless is brutal. Its even better than the 6 Sylvan sorc cheese.

 

[Haplo]

Glad you're enjoying it!

Will appreciate it if you share your experiences from time to time (I started on Challenging, switched to Hard in Act 3; Unfair was only used for a few end-game tests).

Also this is a middle BAB class, so on Unfair you want as many accuracy boosters, as possible.

Notable ones I use:
1. Aoe intimidation with Dazzling Display from other party member with some Persuasion/Intimidation boosters (decent Cha, Skill Focus, Intimidating Prowess; late/end game this char can take over with auto Intimidations from Dazzling Display) => to take advantage of Shatter Defenses; The tricky decision is whether to also make this other char a Thug.
2. Bard: Inspire Courage; Heroism/Greater/Good Hope/later possibly Heroic Invocation from mage or glaive,
3. Freebooter (min. level 5/6 multiclass): +2 flanking with Bond, +2 (up to +5) on marked enemy with Bane.

Obviously Outflank ASAP on all melee party members, also Combat Reflexes early (or Opportunist Boots from Varrask - ask for Kellid Style equipment) and later on Seize the Moment.
It's good to equip melee party members with wide crit range weapons to benefit more from these combo feats. There is an early Keen Elven Curved Blade for example... also a keen kukuri, and.. a keen longsword too. If you have a magus, he can make his weapons keen too, starting at level 5.

Needless to say, try to always fight Enlarged past the first levels.

 

[JodocusQuak]

Thx again for more information. I will adjust the build accordingly.

My party: MC, Wizard, Cleric, 2 Sorcerers and a Bard.

1. Enchantment Wizard with dips into Fey Sorc, Vivi and AT later on will be the controller/debuffer.
2. Plain Cleric (Animal and Community) will be a summoner.
3. One Sylvan Sorc with illusion focus, the other with evocation focus.
4. Plain Thundercaller Bard.
5. Key: Aura of Despair, Crushing Despair, Archons Aura and Prayer to lower the DC.

The 2 Sylvan Sorcerers and the Wiz start with Evocation and Spell Specialization Magic Missile to get through Act 1. The Thundercaller supports the MC and the 2, later 3, Smilodons right from the start. I played 6 Sylvan Sorcerers before, but found it lacked a Cleric for healing and a dedicated melee char to take over in late game. Your build supports the party right from the start, because it actually can hit mobs in Act 1 and doesnt only shine in late game.

 

[Efe]

looks to me like youre gonna have problems early on in game

 

[Haplo]

Okay, with that setup it will be a bit difficult. Also I guess the teamwork feats (Outflank, Seize the Moment) won't help? Cause you need to have at least 2 characters with them in melee range to benefit.
Maybe consider adding a Monster Tactician, Tactical Leader or a Sacred Huntsman (with wide crit range weapon) to your party roster to somewhat benefit from these great combo feats.

The bard could work as the aoe Intimidator before the MC can take over.

 

[Daidre]

1. Enchantment Wizard with dips into Fey Sorc, Vivi and AT later on will be the controller/debuffer.

Enchantment is weird choice here because a) lot of immunities in the game (undead, vermin, fey) b) Questionable to build AT upon, lvl 10 sneak on aoe abilities is best with spells like Stormbolts or Chain Lightning (Evocation).

For me it seems that Evoker Wiz for AT will work better, and Conjuration is way better than Enchantment in CC capability.

But I must admit that 2 Sorc + Wizard + Bard is not a party I would usually run.

 

[amurath]

Okay, with that setup it will be a bit difficult. Also I guess the teamwork feats (Outflank, Seize the Moment) won't help? Cause you need to have at least 2 characters with them in melee range to benefit.
Maybe consider adding a Monster Tactician, Tactical Leader or a Sacred Huntsman (with wide crit range weapon) to your party roster to somewhat benefit from these great combo feats.

The bard could work as the aoe Intimidator before the MC can take over.

Would you care to post the SS GVS build you've been talking about? Also, have you tried making a vivi archer? Apparently you can get a ridiculous number of attacks (20+) with the mirror bow and some of the special arrows that Kimo makes. I'm curious if you can make a machine gun archer build.

 

[Haplo]

It was somewhat inspired by NerdCommando's Strong Arm SS build.


Heavyhitter Sword Saint
19 Bastard Sword Saint / 1 Traditional Monk
Alignment: Lawful for Monk, preferably Lawful Good for Protector Robes

Aasimar, Garuda-Blooded
Str: 16+4
Dex: 16
Con: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 14
Cha: 7+1

Or perhaps better yet, a more min-maxed Hungerseed Tiefling.
Str: 17+5
Dex: 14
Con: 12
Int: 16
Wis: 16
Cha: 5
That's even better with Eldritch Arcana mod, as it lets you grow Wings with spells and Tieflings get alternate racial Traits, for example +2 Int instead of the spell like ability and +1 natural armor instead of the energy resist.

Pick Bastard Sword as your chosen weapon. This both offers high base damage, takes advantage of a Sword Saint's Perfect Strike/Critical abilities and is a really versatile choice: there are nice regular, one handed bastards, as well as Large Bastard Swords that deal very high base damage (6d8 with Legendary Proportions and Lead Blades!). Ovinrbaane can also cast some nice buffs on you (Shield, Stoneskin) many times per day, so you conserve spell uses.

With Greater Vital Strike that base damage gets quadrupled to 24d8 and Perfect strike lets you simply deal 192 damage + modifiers (possibly x3 with Perfect Critical). Only once per round... but that's a good opportunity to burn a Lesser Rod Quickened True Strike to make sure such a heavy, slow hit lands.

Edit: I hear Vital Strike has been finally fixed to be a Standard Action! It was fixed in the Turn Based mod before, but perhaps now it makes sense in vanilla/real time also.

If you like the smell of brokenness, Vital Strikes triggering Cleaving Finish (and Greater) cause more Vital Strikes. Costly, but cool sometimes:

Spoiler

I recommend using the Eldritch Arcana mod for Intensified Spell metamagic (really gives Shocking Grasp a kick, try also Magical Lineage or Metamagic Master traits with it to make it basically free) and maybe late game Spell Blending Arcana to learn the likes of Echolocation and Sense Vitals.
Having a better source of Lead Blades then the initial wand you find would be nice, so I also recommend getting the Craft Items mod to have your party ranger make some extra Lead Blade wands.
You could pick ~5/6 ranger levels yourself... but it's very suboptimal, weakens and delays progression of all abilities and GVS.

Edit: There's also the better option to go with a cleric dip - Ecclessitheurge of Torag (need Torag deity then) with Artifice as primary domain - that would allow you to cast LB about 4-5 times per day. Even better if you pick some traits and/or feat from Eldritch Arcana that would boost the Caster level on this spell/class.
Still you give up Perfect Reflexes at SS level 19 and that's a steep price to pay. Although the Robe of Eyes can be an imperfect substitute. Plus a Bonus Feat if you take both monk and cleric dips.

Again, you will want to have a dedicated aoe Intimidation character in your party with Dazzling Display, good Cha and/or Str, Skill Focus Persuasion an/or Intimidating Focus. Shatter Defenses will not only make hitting enemies a much easier afair, but will also trigger Lethal Focus (Int to damage) all the time.

Edit: A Bard with Dirge of Doom is even better, particularly after the Dazzling Display nerf to Full Round Action.
Late game casters capable of standing near the enemies with Frightful Presence (spell level 8), also work.

Feat Guide:
1 Arcane Strike
2
3 Pick Traditional Monk. Standard feat: Intensify Spell; Monk bonus: Crane Style
4 Magus Arcana: Pick Arcane Accuracy - it's great when something needs to die here & now.
5 Outflank
6 Magus bonus: Empower Spell
7 Dazzling Display; Magus Arcana: Pick Enduring Blade
8
9 Shatter Defenses
10
11 Extra Arcana (needs EA mod): Pick Ghost Blade (Ghost Touch will be very useful from now on till the end; I was excited thinking about the Brilliant Energy and I guess it will help in Chapters IV and V - when you need it the least - but sadly it does nothing in endgame, even Wild Hunt mobs have no armor and Brilliant weapons harmlessly pass trough ghosts).
If no EA mod and Aasimar, perhaps Wings instead.
12 Magus Bonus: Blind Fight
13 Improved Crit.; Magus Arcana: Devoted Blade (if Ghost Blade was not picked at level 11 with EA mod Extra Arcana feat, consider picking it now. Ghosts are annoying).
14
15 Vital Strike
16 Magus Arcana: Pick Bane Blade (also gives +2 attack!)
17 Improved Vital Strike
18 Magus Bonus: Greater Vital Strike
19 Weapon Specialization; Magus Arcana: If you have EA mod, pick Spell Blending (Echolocation, Sense Vitals); otherwise maybe Dimension Strike (good but a bit costly).

Version with Cleaving Finish (and maybe no Eldritch Arcana mod):
1 Arcane Strike
2
3 Pick Traditional Monk. Standard feat: Power Attack; Monk bonus: Crane Style
/ ALTERNATIVELY for self supply of Lead Blade buff (but much worse defenses), pick Eccelessitheurge cleric of Torag with Artifice Primary domain.
4 Magus Arcana: Pick Arcane Accuracy - it's great when something needs to die here & now.
5 Outflank
6 Magus bonus: Blind Fight
7 Dazzling Display; Magus Arcana: Pick Enduring Blade
8
9 Shatter Defenses
10
11 Cleave
12 Magus Bonus: Cleaving Finish
13 Great Cleave; Magus Arcana: Ghost or Devoted Blade
14
15 Vital Strike
16 Magus Arcana: Pick Bane Blade (also gives +2 attack!)
17 Improved Vital Strike
18 Magus Bonus: Greater Vital Strike
19 Improved Cleaving Finish; Magus Arcana: Devoted Blade

Important spells: Shield, Enlarge (best to have someone else cast it, you have limited slots best used for damage) Intensified Shocking Grasp (With Magical Lineage or Metamagic Master), Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasps (same as above, also use Lesser Maximize Rods), True Strike (use with Lesser Quicken Rod and Improved/Greater Vital Strike with a big, size-boosted weapon), Mirror Image (Important!), Blur (best subcontract), Frigid Touch (could be nice for some bosses to badly debuff them with no save), Haste (subcontract; you may also use a Speed weapon like Ovinrbaane or self-enchant with this property), Displacement (best subcontract), Vampiric Touch (use Lesser Maximize Rods), Empowered Vampiric Touch (again, use Maximize Rods or maybe Leviatan Robes), Improved Invisibility, Transformation (go to town in two-handed stance), guess also Scirocco, Ice Storm, Cloudkill; if you have EA mod also Echolocation and Sense Vitals with Spell Blending Arcana;
Important 3rd party buff: (Greater) Heroism/Good Hope/Heroic Invocation, Legendary Proportions, Death Ward, Freedom, Magic Vestment.

Important equipment:
Best Bastard Sword you can find. There are several pretty good ones, they have decent progression as far as weapons go, though if you're unlucky with artisans, there is a big gap between +1 and +4. After establishing Barony you buy +1 Flame from capital. Then pamper Sahiya artisan to make a +4 Oppressor (also +6 Cha and +2 Will) - she can make it early - if you're lucky.
At the end of Act IV you can get Ovinrbaane, a pretty awesome Oversized Anarchic Bastard Sword +5 of Speed, that also lets you cast many spells. After size increases, this will be a great Vital Strike weapon. It's supposed to "try to take over" but I haven't noticed anything adverse. Perhaps bugged? You also can get a +4 Frost or Furious Oversized one from Amiri's questline - that is rather inferior to Ovinrbaane (but may be useful if the deves ever "fix" the former to become less usable/reliable). In Act V you can find Ravenna's Kiss, a +5 Adamantine that also lets you cast Harm and later on in Pitax Palace also Unstoppable Khanda - a pretty great looking +4 one, with a big +8 bonus to Will saves vs Mind Affecting (nice!), DR5/piercing, +4 Persuasion, that can also poison enemies (not that I ever expect this last property to be useful).
At HatEoT you can get the final Amiri's upgrade: Graveyard of the Giants: +5 Oversized (but with no penalty!), Greater Frost (too bad everyones immune to cold then), Furious (with the Oversized penalty removed, this is probably better then Ovinrbaane; you can easily fix the missing Speed as an SS; you can cast Transformation and use Rage bursts from other character's spells or some items to also take advantage of Furious and effectively have a +7 oversized BS). Make sure to stay around the area where you find Amiri for a while, almost leave it and come back to the grave tablet to finally trigger the encounter - this is easy to miss!

Besides that:
1. AC bracers, highest enchantment (hint: there is a cave in the east you can reach in early Act 2 with +5 bracers you can grab, just don't try to fight the Dweomerlion). If you're brave the lich at Lonely Barrow has +8 bracers.
2. Best Physical Belt you can get. Remember that you can buff one (initially maybe even two) of them with spells early on. I think Hargulka troll has +4 Str +4 Con? Although the Greater Belt of Physical Components would be pretty sweet also. But would need to do some serious shuffling then. There are some +6 or +8 Dex Gloves, but we also need Str...
3. Best mental Hat/Crown you can get. Prioritize Int (and remember about early buffs). Again, lich at Lonely Barrow has a +8 hat that brave can get early.
4. Monk Robes, depending on alignment. Lawful Good Protector's Robes are best and available earliest. Before you can wear Censor's robes for +2 AC, if the artisan makes them for you. Occasionally Leviatan's Robes to maximize some spells would be nice. Possibly Robe of Arcane Annihilation to overcome the SR of some enemies and boost Spellstrike damage.
5. Preferably Great Dreamer's Smile from Mim. If you don't have Absolver's/Castigator's Cloak, probably Ring with Deflection & Resistances and some other goodies. You can win a +4/+4 one at Rushlight Tournament, eventually you find a +5/+5 one.
6. Gyronna's Amulet for +5 Inherent AC plus free Mirror Images; I didn't really need the extra AC, so I passed Gyronna's to Valerie and used most of the time River Fox' Memento for a bit extra sneak damage
7. Manticore Skin Boots for +4 Natural Armor; before wear Natural Armor necky
8. Ring of Circumstances - can take a while to afford it, might be difficult at the Tournament, but still, it will be for sale in Pitax later. Before that, the +2 attack ring from artisan would be nice.
9. Preferably Absolver's or Castigator's Cloak - depending on alignment. Then you can free the ring slot.

Early on Opportunist Boots are handy and should be trivial to get if you ask Varrask for Kelid style weapons, as its his lowest tier item.
Bokken's masterpiece potion would obviously be very welcome as well.

Apart from GVS, its a fairly standard Str SS build, really.
Usually fight one-handed, with SpellCombat and Spellstrike active. Autocast Touch of Fatigue for extra Spellstrike attack. Use defensive buffs, Mirror Image and Shield are your friends. Magic Vestment is nice also. Early on also Shield of Faith, Cat's Grace, Owl's Wisdom (I expect you will have an Int circlet and Str & Con belt). At the beginning of the game also gulp Mage Armor pots (they last a long time) or have Octavia cast it on you. Fight Enlarged (later Legendary Proportione'd) for reach and considerably improved damage.
Charge between enemies when practical to avoid "stand away from enemies, cast and then casually walk towards enemies effect" - you can also temporarily disable autocast for that, but it's more clicking.
Oh, and re-enable Arcane Strike after every swift action (such as weapon enhancement).

You also have 2 nova modes: One uses 1-handed stance and Spellstrike to deliver damaging spells, mainly Intensified Shocking Grasp (With Magical Lineage or Metamagic Master), Intensified Empowered Shocking Grasps (same as above, also use Lesser Maximize Rods), Vampiric Touch (use Lesser Maximize Rods), Empowered Vampiric Touch (again, use Maximize Rods or maybe Leviatan Robes). You can also use TrueStrike Wands and Mirror Image Wands with Spell Combat with Wand Wielder.
If you have Sense Vitals, that's good also.

The other one disables Spell Combat and autocast. Grab your weapon two-handed, maybe also switch to a Large/Oversized Bastard. When practical use also Lead Blades from wand to boost the damage further. Toggle Perfect Strike, optionally also Perfect Critical. Go Vital Strike (optimal use of those Arcane Points you're burning on PS/PC). If the enemy is tricky to hit or needs to die fast, use Lesser Quickened True Strike. You also may use Transformation in that mode. That blocks TrueStrikes, but you could still use Arcane Accuracy.
Note this 2nd nova mode is not subject to Spell Resistance


Other weapon categories I can recommend: longswords - but you will rely on getting the Redeemer from Nazrielle and that's quite random, haven't gotten it the last time. Good chances for Perfection tho, and that's technically a +7 sword (and there's a trait in EA that adds +1 Attack to longswords and duelling swords).
Falcatas - only if you have the 2nd DLC. Lion's Claw is really good. Falcatas look kinda puny though.
I guess Bloodhound Duelling Sword would be decent also. And good for crit fishing.
Estocs are decent too, Blinding Light estoc is very good, but its only available in Act VI and the estoc selection isn't great before that (to put it mildly).

If you move away from bastard swords, I would probably skip the Vital Strike line, though. Could then pick Wings and Weapon Spec (+Greater) much sooner. If you don't have another dedicated Intimidator or want to be self-sufficient, then Intimidating Prowess and Power Attack -> Dreadful Carnage are recommended.
Alternatively maybe Combat Reflexes (pretty meh on a SS) plus Seize the Moment.

Edit 09.07.2019: Pushed Vital Strike Back, added advice to pick Extra Arcana and Devoted Blade (with EA mod).

With Advanced Martial Arts Clever Wordplay Trait is an option - to use Int instead of Cha for Persuasion/Intimidation.
This opens the possibility to also become the party aoe Intimidator, but again, need to skip the Vital Strike chain then.
Would require Intimidating Prowess, Power Attack and Dreadful Carnage instead of the VS feats.

Edit: 23.08.2019
Finally nabbed Graveyard of the Giants. Unspectacular after Ovinrbaane, but its nice having up to 4 more AB.

Edit: 28.11.2019
Added some new comments here and there. For example the Torag Artifice Ecclessitheurge dip possibility for Lead Blades or info about Vital Strike stacking with Cleaving Finish.
Also updated the link to current EA mod branch and added links to other mods.

Edit: 27.08.2020
I've added a feat map for a non-EA/Cleaving Finish version.

Make sure to use the current version of Eldritch Arcana mod, fixed for Enhanced Edition. It can be found here:
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/129

I greatly recommend the use of Turn Based Combat mod as well, its quite faultless and integrates perfectly (although makes the game easier):
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/109

To craft Lead Blade wands (and possibly other stuff) you might want Craft Magic Items mod:
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/54


I'll also repost this here:

Spoiler

First boss 1HKO (Shocking Grasp Spellstrike crit)

Dragon 1HKO (GVS crit)

One of the more annoying enemies (GVS crit)

Spellstrike crit with Eldritch Arcana enhanced Shocking Grasp (although at that level you can do nearly as much with Vampiric Touch without the mod)

Nice crit (PS active)

Nice round (with Perfect Strike active)

Nice regular hit (PS active)

"Optimized" AC screenshot - don't really need nearly that much for normal gameplay, even on Unfair - so usually some of this equipment goes to other party members, which need it more (particularly Gyronna's Amulet)

 

[Haplo]

As for the Vivi archery build, I guess it is solid. Mutagens really help with MAD dependance on both Dex & Str and Sneak attacks are always nice.

It relies on getting not one but two artisan items though. Having both the mirror copies and Ultrasound copies of arrows all carry sneak attack damage sounds like a bug (for example the Manyshot feat doesn't allow for multiple sneaks or crits).
And, well, its burst of glory is rather short. Those quivers have limited use arrows, 20 of them per day AFAIR, so with 7 base attacks enough for 3 rounds per day?

Personally I prefer melee. Ranged is missing the godly teamwork combo feats, Attacks of Opportunity as well as a lot of potential accuracy boosts:
-> Flanking +2
-> Outflank +2
-> Freebooter's Bond +2

6 AB difference, that's 30% less Accuracy. Nontrivial.

Rapid Shot is also at -2 AB.

Having some solid ranged character in a party to quickly eliminate primary threats is fine though.
They are also more compatible with caster/summoner parties... or with stuff like Deadly Earth (not that a Kineticist really needs such support).