Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Sykar]

How do you guys feel about the Toughness feat?

 

[Haplo]

I feel that it's a rather sad pick and I have difficulty imagining a character that would pick that rather then several other feats.

 

[Sykar]

I feel that it's a rather sad pick and I have difficulty imagining a character that would pick that rather then several other feats.

Even on d6 hit die classes?

 

[Haplo]

Well. Perhaps if you plan for the frontline. Otherwise I would want to have a better avoidance plan then a 20 HP buffer. Sure, it may let you live trough 1 more shot.. then again, it may not.
Slightly weaker then 2 Con. And you can find items with +8 to all physical or mental stats...

 

[Haplo]

Wonder if the Bald Hilltop is representative of the House difficulty. If so, maybe I'll manage. Of course there will be way more mobs as I understand.

Though its annoying how buggy Greater Tripping with Bites is. Sometimes it seems to work, often it does not (and you only get the regular Trip effect).

 

[Cael]

How do you guys feel about the Toughness feat?

On a game with inflated numbers, 1 extra HP per level isn't going to mean much. 20 at level 20? Not even half a swing. In a 3.5 game, it may allow you to survive an extra blow or two.

Of course, in 3.5 Toughness was only worth 3hp, so it is one of the worst feats ever.

 

[Yosharian]

Wait bites stack? How the fuck does that work

 

[Shadenuat]

I tried new pit spells, they're p. hilarious
It is now the HOLE META
You get so many holes enemies to fall into

Also Octavia now can Fist enemies to deff with 5d6/5 levels force damage bull rushing rays

...holes and fists I think Owlcats want to say something to fans

 

[Cael]

...holes and fists I think Owlcats want to say something to fans

Next lead writer:

Spoiler

Kevin Maginn

 

[glass blackbird]

I forget if Toughness is required for anything (Stalwart Defender, maybe?) but on its own it is completely fucking useless.

 

[Yosharian]

I mean having more hitpoints isn't useless. It's just that there should be better feats. It's entirely possible that there are no better feats, past level 17 or so. An extra 20 hitpoints isn't useless.

 

[Sykar]

I always feel compelled to take it on Octavia though. That 8 base con hurt, even with +x con belt. The only weakness she has gameplay wise though, she is well built otherwise.

 

[Haplo]

Sometimes bite trips do trigger Greater Trip effect with Attacks of Opportunity. Wonder why often it does not work.

 

[Haplo]

Fauchard Biting Tripper Build

Race: Motherless Tiefling (race is quite important, as that's +1 Bite attack - which can translate to trip and multiple extra attacks)
Alignment: Lawful for Monk. Preferably lawful good for easier late game defense wise (+5 Dodge is pretty huge!), but you can get some good use of bite damage & attack boosts from Neutral or Evil robes also.
Stats:
Str 18 (+4)
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 16
Cha 7 (+1)

Weapon: Till level 10-14 Feral Mutagen with best Amulet of Mighty Fists you can find. 4 Max BAB attacks at level 2 with bonus sneak dice generally trump other options. You can use a quarterstaff as a backup weapon if you can get a decent one, it'll benefit from Flurry and your high Strenght (but using a manufactured weapon will relegate Bites to Secondary status, meaning -5 BAB and 1/2 Str damage, so usually not worth it). Later on fauchards (generally when Sahiya delivers you a good one, they really start to shine when you get Improved Critical - which is pretty late). Serpent Prince is an excellent damage option that's available before mid game - if you're lucky. You really want to pamper Sahiya to deliver her masterpiece Mastery fauchard ASAP (earliest late Act IV), as that will be quite the game changer, boosting your CMB and delivering bonus attacks whenever your Bite trips land.
At HATEOT I've found a neat +4 Ghost Touch Quarterstaff of Speed, which was very handy there also (turns out you can crit and sneak attack ghosts - if you have a ghost touch weapon).

Class split: 12 Vivisectionist / 1 Monk / 1 Sword Saint (Fauchard): That's quite important, sort of foundation of the build. Then I went with Archeologist Bard 2 / Dragon Disciple 4. This offered me the 3rd bite attack, made my char significantly more tanky with Uncanny Dodge, +3 DD Natural Armor, Mirror Image; +4 DD Str allowed me to reach a nice, round number of 50 Str, got 2 bonus feats: Opportunist and Blind Fight (theoretically not needed, but wanted to be on the safe side).

Feats:
1 Combat Expertise
2 (Discovery) Feral Mutagen
3 Traditional Monk: Monk bonus: Crane Style; Trip
4
5 (Discovery) Combat Trick: Outflank; Combat Reflexes
6
7 (Discovery) Fury's Fall; Power Attack* (if you don't have another dedicated Intimidator in your party, prioritize Intimidating Prowess instead).
8
9 Sword Saint: Fauchard; SS: Exotic Proficiency: Fauchard; SS: Weapon Focus: Fauchard; Greater Trip
10 (Discovery) Combat Trick: Dazzling Display
11 Shatter Defenses* (works in tandem with Dazzling Display; preferably have another dedicated Intimidator character in your party for this; this build can serve that role, but initially won't be very good at it... and you don't want to spend rounds on Dazzling when you should be tripping and killing left, right and center)
12 (Discovery) Crippling Strike
13 Improved Critical Fauchard
14 (Discovery) Greater Mutagen
15 Archeologist Seize the Moment*
16 Archeologist /Uncanny Dodge/ Bard Bonus: Opportunist
17 DD Intimidating Prowess* (if you've already picked this at level 7, pick Power Attack instead)
18 DD /Dragon Bite/; DD bonus: Blind Fight
19 DD Dreadful Carnage* /pick Mirror Image Spell/
20 DD

Skills: Max Persuasion - both for skill checks to gain xp (with "Only skill user gets xp from skills"), pass certain events (mainly Nok-Nok's comes to mind) and for late game aoe Intimidation efforts.

Secondary: Trickery (can help with leveling early if you're the trap disabler and use "Only skill user gets experience from skills"; probably not worth to level it in the 2nd half of the game, as disarming xp starts to drop off and you can use other characters, like Linzi, Octavia, Jubilost or Nok-Nok for this), Perception (always nice to have on as many characters as possible).
Nice to have some for certain late game checks: Arcana, Athletics (I think 1 "big" check each... and a slightly better quest resolution with the former; still a nice chunk of xp if you have it on your main).

Important spells: Shield, Enlarge, True Strike, Barkskin, Blur, False Life, Heroism, Haste, Displacement, Improved Invisibility, Echolocation, Death Ward; later Mirror Image.
Important 3rd party buff: Legendary Proportions (could get it yourself by going 16+ Vivi, but would be a weaker build overall, although could also self-buff Transformation then). Other desired buffs: Greater Heroism and/or Heroic Invocation (the former is better but the latter lasts longer and is party-wide), Magic Vestment. If you use another level 16+ Alchemist with Infusion, he could buff you with Transformation late game.

Important equipment:
1. Cloak of Winter Wolf (get it in Act 2 ASAP - Bridge over Guldrin River area),
2. Amulet of Mighty or Agile Fists, highest enchantment available (+1 is at Sycamore in werewolves possession AFAIR, +3 Agile amulet can be found in Womb of Lamashtu secret area after you beat the bear treant, that will last you a while before you get a +4 Agile and finally +5 Mighty Fist).
3. AC bracers, highest enchantment (hint: there is a cave in the east you can reach in early Act 2 with +5 bracers you can grab, just don't try to fight the Dweomerlion). If you're brave the lich at Lonely Barrow has +8 bracers.
4. Best Physical Belt you can get. Prioritize Str and Dex, remember that you can buff one of them with spells early on.
5. Best mental Hat/Crown you can get. Prioritize Wis (or remember about early buffs). Again, lich at Lonely Barrow has a +8 hat that brave can get early.
4. Monk Robes, depending on alignment. Lawful Good Protector's Robes are best and available earliest. Before you can wear Censor's robes for +2 AC, if the artisan makes them for you.
5. Ring with Deflection & Resistances and some other goodies. You can win a +4/+4 one at Rushlight Tournament, eventually you find a +5/+5 one.
6. Ring of Circumstances - can take a while to afford it, might be difficult at the Tournament, but still, it will be for sale in Pitax later. Before that, the +2 attack ring from artisan would be nice.

Early on Opportunist Boots are handy and should be trivial to get if you ask Varrask for Kelid style weapons, as its his lowest tier item.
Bokken's masterpiece potion would obviously be very welcome as well.

Build in action:

 

[Daidre]

Really nice build)
But you forgot the most important part - requirements you need to meet for Shaynih'a Mastery Fauchard and special prayer to Dark Gods for her to bring it before the game ends)
Economy 8, Relations 8, do her quest and upgrade the region with her village asap.

 

[Haplo]

True, true.

Although I think my Relations were lower (VI?) when she brought it to me (there are more Tier unlock conditions then tiers).

Each failure to make the masterpiece boosts chance by... was it 30%? So chances are good if you meet the conditions, preferably still in Act IV.
But if you fail ~3 times, I guess you risk time running out - so there is always a certain risk. To minimize it, try to fulfill the conditions Daidre mentioned ASAP.

Sahiya was good for me, delivered me all her fauchards early (Serpent Prince and Dark Bidding at the beginning of Act 3, Mastery in Act IV :D)

 

[Daidre]

Thanks to amazing reddit post https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/comments/anucgk/artisans/ with Masterpiece requirement I did a table with kingdom Stats and Artisans. It may be of use for someone here.

Last row is the max for stat.

 

[ArchAngel]

I forget if Toughness is required for anything (Stalwart Defender, maybe?) but on its own it is completely fucking useless.

It is pretty useful for Kineticists. It is basically one free burn.

 

[Jack Of Owls]

Btw, disabling the AI for my druid character still doesn't stop him from rushing into melee after casting a combat spell (I'm using patch 1.3). So it's back to using a re-mapped mouse button to force him to stay put after casting.

Also, I wanted to ask: do you think Jubilost might be overpowered? Jeezus Christopher, those alchemy bombs!

 

[Daidre]

You can still try to buy Dart from Oleg for your druid. Easier than catching him all the time.

And general consensus about alchemist bombs - bit less broken than Kineticists Deadly Earth but very broken indeed.

 

[amurath]

If you were doing an Insane solo playthrough, would you keep the build as is, or go for something like vivi 17/monk 2/saint 1 or maybe vivi 16/monk 2/saint 2 to get more self-buffing capability and a better mutagen?

Fauchard Biting Tripper Build

Race: Motherless Tiefling (race is quite important, as that's +1 Bite attack - which can translate to trip and multiple extra attacks)
Alignment: Lawful for Monk. Preferably lawful good for easier late game defense wise (+5 Dodge is pretty huge!), but you can get some good use of bite damage & attack boosts from Neutral or Evil robes also.
Stats:
Str 18 (+4)
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 16
Cha 7 (+1)

Weapon: Till level 10-14 Feral Mutagen with best Amulet of Mighty Fists you can find. 4 Max BAB attacks at level 2 with bonus sneak dice generally trump other options. You can use a quarterstaff as a backup weapon if you can get a decent one, it'll benefit from Flurry and your high Strenght (but using a manufactured weapon will relegate Bites to Secondary status, meaning -5 BAB and 1/2 Str damage, so usually not worth it). Later on fauchards (generally when Sahiya delivers you a good one, they really start to shine when you get Improved Critical - which is pretty late). Serpent Prince is an excellent damage option that's available before mid game - if you're lucky. You really want to pamper Sahiya to deliver her masterpiece Mastery fauchard ASAP (earliest late Act IV), as that will be quite the game changer, boosting your CMB and delivering bonus attacks whenever your Bite trips land.
At HATEOT I've found a neat +4 Ghost Touch Quarterstaff of Speed, which was very handy there also (turns out you can crit and sneak attack ghosts - if you have a ghost touch weapon).

Class split: 12 Vivisectionist / 1 Monk / 1 Sword Saint (Fauchard): That's quite important, sort of foundation of the build. Then I went with Archeologist Bard 2 / Dragon Disciple 4. This offered me the 3rd bite attack, made my char significantly more tanky with Uncanny Dodge, +3 DD Natural Armor, Mirror Image; +4 DD Str allowed me to reach a nice, round number of 50 Str, got 2 bonus feats: Opportunist and Blind Fight (theoretically not needed, but wanted to be on the safe side).

Feats:
1 Combat Expertise
2 (Discovery) Feral Mutagen
3 Traditional Monk: Monk bonus: Crane Style; Trip
4
5 (Discovery) Combat Trick: Outflank; Combat Reflexes
6
7 (Discovery) Feral Wings* (If you have second DLC; If you go Cha route instead of Wis, you could pick Intimidating Prowess for example); Fury's Fall
8
9 Sword Saint: Fauchard; SS: Exotic Proficiency: Fauchard; SS: Weapon Focus: Fauchard; Greater Trip
10 (Discovery) Combat Trick: Dazzling Display* (assuming you have a dedicated aoe Intimidator in your party; otherwise you could still try to take it at the cost of Will saves - lower Wis, raise Cha, go Scaled Fist Monk, try to fit Intimidating Prowess earlier - but it would be far less optimal, Will saves are important)
11 Shatter Defenses* (assuming you have a dedicated aoe Intimidator in your party; otherwise you could still try to take it at the cost of Will saves - lower Wis, raise Cha, go Scaled Fist Monk, try to fit Intimidating Prowess earlier - but it would be far less optimal, Will saves are important)
12 (Discovery) Crippling Strike
13 Improved Critical Fauchard
14 (Discovery) Greater Mutagen
15 Archeologist Dreadful Carnage* (Could pick Seize the Moment, but I think that's more useful overall. With the next feat you'll actually land those aoe auto-scares often)
16 Archeologist /Uncanny Dodge/ Bard Bonus: Opportunist
17 DD Intimidating Prowess
18 DD /Dragon Bite/; DD bonus: Blind Fight
19 DD Seize the Moment /pick Mirror Image Spell/
20 DD

Important spells: Shield, Enlarge, True Strike, Barkskin, Blur, False Life, Heroism, Haste, Displacement, Improved Invisibility, Echolocation, Death Ward; later Mirror Image.
Important 3rd party buff: Legendary Proportions (could get it yourself by going 16+ Vivi, but would be a weaker build overall). Other desired buffs: Greater Heroism and/or Heroic Invocation (the former is better but the latter lasts longer and is party-wide), Magic Vestment. If you use another level 16+ Alchemist with Infusion, he could buff you with Transformation late game.

Important equipment:
1. Cloak of Winter Wolf (get it in Act 2 ASAP - Bridge over Guldrin River area),
2. Amulet of Mighty or Agile Fists, highest enchantment available (+1 is at Sycamore in werewolves possession AFAIR, +3 Agile amulet can be found in Womb of Lamashtu secret area after you beat the bear treant, that will last you a while before you get a +4 Agile and finally +5 Mighty Fist).
3. AC bracers, highest enchantment (hint: there is a cave in the east you can reach in early Act 2 with +5 bracers you can grab, just don't try to fight the Dweomerlion). If you're brave the lich at Lonely Barrow has +8 bracers.
4. Best Physical Belt you can get. Prioritize Str and Dex, remember that you can buff one of them with spells early on.
5. Best mental Hat/Crown you can get. Prioritize Wis (or remember about early buffs). Again, lich at Lonely Barrow has a +8 hat that brave can get early.
4. Monk Robes, depending on alignment. Lawful Good Protector's Robes are best and available earliest. Before you can wear Censor's robes for +2 AC, if the artisan makes them for you.
5. Ring with Deflection & Resistances and some other goodies. You can win a +4/+4 one at Rushlight Tournament, eventually you find a +5/+5 one.
6. Ring of Circumstances - can take a while to afford it, might be difficult at the Tournament, but still, it will be for sale in Pitax later. Before that, the +2 attack ring from artisan would be nice.

Early on Opportunist Boots are handy and should be trivial to get if you ask Varrask for Kelid style weapons, as its his lowest tier item.
Bokken's masterpiece potion would obviously be very welcome as well.

Not quite optimally buffed shot:

 

[Haplo]

For solo you will definitely want Uncanny Dodge IMO. Dragon Disciple is indeed optional. Your Uncanny Dodge options include Archeologist 2 or Rogue 4 (and Barb 2, but there's an alignment conflict and its not optimal IMO).
If you want top buffs (mainly Legendary Proportions self-buff, with 16 levels you won't get another spell pick) and more dispel resistance, I'd probably go Vivi 16/Monk1/SS1/Archeologist 2.
Just remember that you need Vivi 10 to qualify for Advanced Talents on Archeologist level 2. For solo play, you won't need Opportunist or the teamwork feats (Outflank, Seize the Moment).
Guess focus on Intimidation feats earlier, particularly Intimidating Prowess, might fit Skill Focus: Persuade in place of some teamwork feats. When you have spare feats (instead of the teamworks), if an artisan delivers you Plate of the Beast (or 2-3, like in my case), you COULD wastefully pick Medium Armor Proficiency just for the Aspect of the Wolf spells for +1 Bite. Or Martial for the Incorruptible Petal Glaive with Heroic Invocation.

I also just noticed there are 2 mistakes in the build. Dreadful Carnage can't be picked before level 17 (BAB 11) and also it requires Power Attack... tight. Maybe I'll remove the Feral Wings to fit it. I mean not everyone has the 2nd DLC. I don't.

If you do play it solo, be sure to post your experiences

 

[Daidre]

I kinda do not see it getting past chapter 1 solo on Unfair without cheats. Or even getting past one wolf pack.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

mainly Legendary Proportions self-buff, with 16 levels you won't get another spell pick

Vivi can learn spells from scrolls.

I kinda do not see it getting past chapter 1 solo on Unfair without cheats. Or even getting past one wolf pack.

I kinda suspect the same, but if you solo and enable only active partymember XP you end the tutorial at level 3 at least. So, with stealth you might be able to farm some XP on different locations, dunno.
It's hard to imagine how something that isn't an arcane caster or who can summon lots of stuff would solo unfair.

 

[Haplo]

That's for Unfair? Okay, I would not risk this either.
I can see Normal, maybe Challenging.
Hard could be tough as nails in some places solo, I guess, but maybe doable.

But Unfair? I suppose you can use some tricks to overlevel the beginning.
Can't do much about the final parts though.