Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[santino27]

Scimitars and Dueling Swords come to mind, both of them have a top tier weapon for main hand like Thundering Claw or Bloodhound and something decent for off-hand, especially scimitars with couple of +4 - +5 Holy. Rapiers and Estocs qualify too, but there are difficulties with finding even one that is really good.

Agreed. With dueling swords, I'd still splash into rogue 4 so you could run a dex build and use finesse training. The only problem with doing so previously was that dueling swords aren't light so you're stuck with a different (presumably non-finessed, although agile weapons muddy the waters a bit) offhand weapon or taking a larger penalty to attack. This lets you actually dual wield dueling swords and get the benefits of finesse training without incurring the offhand to-hit penalty.

 

[Haplo]

Or dual wield legendary proportion'ed Bastard Swords, which deal 3d8 base damage.
Should be 4d8 if you can also get Lead Blades.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

How many fighter levels do you need to pick that feat?

 

[Cael]

How many fighter levels do you need to pick that feat?

ALL of them, of course! Duh!

Spoiler

 

[Haplo]

How many fighter levels do you need to pick that feat?

According to the rules should be 9 (second Weapon Training unlocks Advanced options).

 

[Haplo]

The latest DLC added this to fighter:

Effortless Dual-Wielding
The fighter treats all one-handed weapons that belong to the associated weapon group as though they were light weapons when determining his penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons.

Can anyone suggest dual wield build with this talent in mind? I know that knife rogue is better. What weapons would you use? There is this club "grim finale" that you can find twice in the game, what about double bastard swords?

A weapon with high crit range. As pointed out scimitars. Bear God in one hand and that divine energy one in other. Wreak havoc.

If you mostly care about critical hits, I suppose the dual x3 kukuris are strictly better. And you don't even need fighter levels to dual them!

 

[Daidre]

But you'll never find anything better than a last set of Nok's kukuris as your weapon and they are boring +4 +2d6 cold/fire. When Thundering Claw of Bear God is very cool. Not stealing weapons from heroic goblin if you intend to use him in the party is plus too.
And it is easy to lose them completely if you kill/kick out (blasphemy!) Nok-Nok or not fight enemy who drops them due to RP choice.

 

[ArchAngel]

The latest DLC added this to fighter:

Effortless Dual-Wielding
The fighter treats all one-handed weapons that belong to the associated weapon group as though they were light weapons when determining his penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons.

Can anyone suggest dual wield build with this talent in mind? I know that knife rogue is better. What weapons would you use? There is this club "grim finale" that you can find twice in the game, what about double bastard swords?

Dark Elf Ranger/Fighter who uses 2 Scimitars.. DUH

 

[Daidre]

Elves are so fugly in P:K that I wonder if anyone in art team has strong feelings about the race. Even the ladies!

 

[Seari]

Do aldori defenders get the advanced fighter feats since they get weapon training? I'm guessing tower and 2hf don't.

 

[Haplo]

Both aldori and 2HF should. 2HF simply gets a modified Weapon Training version, focused on two handed arms. Tower Shield fighters are out of luck as they sacrifice weapon training for defensive traits.

How its implemented I'm not sure.

 

[VentilatorOfDoom]

This feat should be available at F1. Also that other feat Fighter’s Tactics. You should get both by dipping F1. Everything else would be preposterous and not reflect the spirit of the game.

 

[Daidre]

Effortless Dual-Wielding
The fighter treats all one-handed weapons that belong to the associated weapon group as though they were light weapons when determining his penalties on attack rolls for fighting with two weapons.

I had impression that you need Weapon training at level 5 for this to work (never noticed feat at Fighter 1) or even advanced at lvl 9. Because use different categories for this and Weapon training would be really weird. Alas, cant check right now.

 

[Haplo]

My understanding is that you need at least standard weapon training +1 before unlocking the advanced options.

 

[Daidre]

I've checked. All new feats require Fighter level 9 and can be taken only as a Weapon Training, instead of additional weapon groups on 9, 13 and 17. So Aldori Defender gets them, but not Two-Handed Fighter.

 

[Haplo]

So my Vivi bite tripper is getting along nicely. Recently got rid of Irovetti and Sirotek.
3 main fauchard strikes (4 with haste), 3 bites, Opportunist & AoOs from enemies scared by Valerie, Outflank & Seize the Moment. Come to think of it, I might have to return to Opportunist Boots. Clearly 6 AoOs per round from Combat Reflexes and 22 Dex are not enough.

It goes like this: Bite -> Cloak of the Winter Wolf Trip (CMB something like 55 so nothing resists, 60 should be reachable with Transformation buff) -> Mastery fauchard damage (no attack roll) -> if the enemy is somehow still alive, fauchard AoO from Greater Trip effect (doesn't always trigger).
And he can do the bite combo 3 times per round - if there are enough non-prone survivors in range (can't re-trip someone already prone).

I actually think it might be the highest damage melee character. At least as long as Bites from multiple sources stack.

It's kinda tricky to find enemies that survive this for more thorough testing so far.
Will see how he fares at the HatEoT.

 

[axedice]

Difficulty? Also how viable was the build before the masterwork fauchard?

 

[Terpsichore]

Is this actually playable without driving you to suicide from bad writing, poor combat and tedium, like PoE?

 

[Haplo]

Difficulty? Also how viable was the build before the masterwork fauchard?

Hard so far. I've been considering Unfair, but I kinda fear the tedium of keeping the squishier party members alive. I had to hide Linzi in the corners in the Pitax palace already.
Also DC spells land rarely enough as it is.

The build was extremely viable throughout. In fact I respecced from a Hungerseed Tiefling to a Motherless when I realized that Bite attacks stack. Had I played a Motherless from the start, it would have been even more easy (4 full BAB attacks with high Str & bonus sneak dice at level 2, 2 bite & trip attempts per round from beginning of Act 2 and Guldrin Bridge visit).
Actually at least till you get the Serpent Prince fauchard, the 4 max BAB natural attacks from Feral Mutagen and Motherless are a much stronger attack option.
Even then its debatable, at least till you get Improved Critical Fauchard. Before that another option is to flurry a quarterstaff with high Str bonus (but you incur a -5 AB & 1/2 Str damage penalty on Bites using manufactured weapons).

Also a respectable AC with the Monk level, good Wisdom, Mutagen Natural Armor boosts, decent Mutagen buffed Dex, Shield spell, monk robes, +1 Int AC from 1 SS level, later also Dragon Disciple bonus Natural Armor (now about 60 buffed - without Defensive/CE or flight bonus).

You also have a high ability to self-buff, including Improved Invisibility, Shield, Barkskin, Haste, Enlarge, Blur, Displacement, Death Ward, False Life, so are pretty self sufficient (and can trigger sneak attacks even without flankers). Late game I've even learned Mirror Image (from the Bard spell list).

 

[Daidre]

Main problem is getting decent Fauchard for me, Mastery is guaranteed but there is nothing better than + 1 if you got a bad rolls with Artisan who makes them. In my 4 complete runs I've seen Serpent Prince only once but Tulip is always one of the first crafters I upgrade.
I have mixed feeling about Trip too - it seems almost useless in early-mid game, when you need it most for CC, until you get all extras for it to work (3 feat and high STR and DEX). Mastery adds weapon attack to it, but it is impossible (?) to get it before coronation and until the House it is easiest part of the game where melee only do a clean up after casters destroy everything en masse with Chain Lighting and Stormbolts. Most of enemies blown to pieces by Amiri with 17-20 x4 rage crits with Greataxe from lich tomb (200-300 dmg) and Team work AOO before Vivi is done with weapon attacks to start biting.

 

[Haplo]

Well, yeah, I guess I got extremely lucky (plus I also prioritized upgrading Tulip, her village, workshop, region, quests and preferred stats). I got Serpent Prince at the beginning of Act 3. She also delivered Mastery after the first complete delivery cycle after Coronation - before I even tackled Flight of the Betrayer.

But like I wrote, there is no rush to get Serpent Prince really - the 4 natural attacks at max BAB stay competitive for a loong time (and in the meantime if you find/get a nice quarterstaff earlier, you can put flurry to a good use as well).

Regular Trip is not so great early, true - its very effective vs casters, but there aren't that many you wouldn't attack instead - and for the few that you would, you can always have some cc spell handy. So in most cases trading a round's damage for a trip is dubious. Unless it's free that is. And you get those free trips 2x per round. And enemies will provoke AoOs when getting up (plus on falling down with Greater Trip).

And sure, there are other ways to deal damage/approach encounters. Amiri does tear some serious shit with that axe, true. But those combos work very well with a fauchard user... Valerie causes a lot of AoOs as well with her aoe frighten from thug Dazzling Display. Casters mainly play a supporting role in my parties, though.
Enemies often come from different directions, so sometimes there are enough of them for everyone to get a piece of action. And my Amiri is rather squishy when compared to main, so I let enemies focus on Val and main char first, before sending her out.

 

[Sykar]

How do you guys feel about the Toughness feat?

 

[Haplo]

I feel that it's a rather sad pick and I have difficulty imagining a character that would pick that rather then several other feats.

 

[Sykar]

I feel that it's a rather sad pick and I have difficulty imagining a character that would pick that rather then several other feats.

Even on d6 hit die classes?

 

[Haplo]

Well. Perhaps if you plan for the frontline. Otherwise I would want to have a better avoidance plan then a 20 HP buffer. Sure, it may let you live trough 1 more shot.. then again, it may not.
Slightly weaker then 2 Con. And you can find items with +8 to all physical or mental stats...