Pathfinder Pathfinder: Kingmaker Builds and Strats Thread

[Yosharian]

I strongly recommend you take a Conjuration specialist instead of Enchantment. Conjuration has some really good crowd control that works more reliably than Enchantment. With Enchantment, you're constantly having to change spells because of enemy types, and eventually you get monsters that are just straight up immune to all your shit. With Conjuration, you get stuff that works on basically everything. And you get access to summoning feats.

 

[JodocusQuak]

Just a short recap: I gave the Evocation sorc Conjuration as a second Focus Spell, but stuck with the ench wiz. Lets see what he can do. I will not use respec mod.

I just finished Act 1 with 61 days and 23 hours left, the MC is lvl 5, mercs are lvl 4. Hardest fights were Grarrukh in Old Sycamore and the random Technic League encounter. Haplo's build has been amazing so far, the build is totally viable in unfair Act 1. The Sneak Attacks really hurt. However, Trip at lvl 3 is useless, because it misses all the time. So I never use it and just wait for Sneak Attacks.

How do a Bard and sorcs work together? The Bard supports the 3 animals and the MC and is a good dmg dealer in unfair, because the 25 Thunder Calls per day are clean dmg like magic missiles. Entangle + Thunder Call + Magic Missile work wonders for huge packs in unfair. For smaller packs, it is usually enough to charge with the MC and the 3 Smilodons and cast Magic Missiles and Thunder Call. Here is a pic from the Grarrukh kill.

Why dont I use a frontline heavy party? Well, a melee party usually means more reloads, because the tank eventually gets hit and dies. Each bigger fight is like game of chess. Eg. I won the Technic League encounter only after some attempts, because I figured out that the 2 melee mobs targeted 2 Smilodons and I could manoeuvre them away without being hit or losing aggro. Then I could kill the backline easily. Here is a pic from the Grarrukh kill.

 

[Haplo]

Thanks for sharing.
Love your avatars!

Trip isn't amazing early on, particularly on Unfair I suppose, where it will be of limited use even longer. Still it's nice to keep some annoying mage or bard on the ground and unable to cast - they usually have poor CMD (watch out for alchemists though, they have decent stats).

But it will help very soon when you get the Cloak of Winter Wolf is Act 2 (Guldrin Bridge Area, visit it ASAP... not necessarily the cave) and both your bites will be free trip attempts. You want to boost those CMBs to increase the landing odds (not great on early Unfair, I reckon) and these feats help. Eventually (level 12) you learn Crippling Strike and after a few attacks with this, the enemy CMD plummets to manageable levels.
Also catching enemies flat-footed with Shatter Defenses helps, I believe.

With the composition you mentioned, I would rethink the Outflank and Seize the Moment feats. Probably won't help. Unless your Cleric is using a reach weapon, then Outflank could still be nice.
If you have the 2nd DLC, Feral Wings would be nice. Also having Intimidating Prowess earlier would be good for the tempo if you don't have another dedicated Intimidator. Definately before Power Attack, which will be of little use on Unfair, particularly with this party composition (but is needed for Dreadful Carnage - which comes much later however).

 

[JodocusQuak]

Yes, I skipped outflank at lvl 5 and took Fury's Fall instead to help with the CMB for trip attempts. If that doesnt work, I have to re-evaluate the early trip build. Still, bites + Sneak Attacks work perfectly fine.

 

[Haplo]

It should work great against caster-types, and nicely against rogue-types. So-so against fighter-types and monsters. Initially poorly against big, bad monsters (don't try it against owlbears ). It's similar to a 5th type of save/defense. But it only gets better, by mid-game you'll be tripping most of enemies and by end-game you will trip everything. Big boosters are: better amulets of Mighty Fists (don't miss the +3 Agile one in the Womb!), Greater Trip (AoOs on BOTH tripping and getting up is groovy... used to be buggy but seems fixed now!), the already mentioned Crippling Strike, Greater Mutagen, Legendary Proportions and lastly the Mastery fauchard. If you REALLY want to trip someone, you can also TrueStrike.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

6x druid with zoo of pets... /gg

 

[Cael]

6x druid with zoo of pets... /gg

As people found out very quickly with IWD's psycho hard difficulty with the crazy stat bloat, the best way to stop the moar biggah numbah! mobs is to engage them with other moar biggah numbah! mobs. The fact that some people like to watch mob on mob violence is probably the same reason why people like UFC: They are not involved, merely spectators to the violence.

 

[JodocusQuak]

I cleared the Bridge over the Gudrin River except for the 2 Owlbears, they are lvl 14. I needed to rest once.

The hardest fight were the 3 lvl 8 Hodags. While the MC could tank all other mobs, he almost died instantly to them. So I first used summons from the Aasimar Sylvan Sorc for distraction to get some casts off. The MC charged with True Strike only to immediatly withdraw. In the meantime, the Wiz casted Web and one Sylvan Sorc Entangle. Luckily, all mobs were webbed. I withdrew a bit to get the party out of Entangle, to get more casts off and let the MC load True Strike. Then the MC charged to only withdrew again through Entangle. The Bard got many Thunder Calls off and some of them stunned the mobs. While 1 Hodag died, 2 reached the party. Luckily, the Ferocious Hodag was almost dead and the MC somehow survived some hits from the remaining Hodag, until he could kill him.

Unfortunately, even with the Cloak of the Winter Wolf and Fury's Fall, the Trips didnt land. But still, the Bites and Sneak Attacks hit regularly. So an early take away is that a Trip build doesnt work early game on unfair. Here is a pic from the Hodag fight.

 

[volklore]

Yeah, Unless you have tons of DEX and tons of STR bonus early to boost your CMB, trips aren't gonna land on anything bigger than a human. Overall for having played a trip vivisectionist build similar to haplo build myself (Didn't go fauchard tho, I went for greataxes so if you get Mastery, trips will land even more), I feel like trip is more of a scaling option for later game as boosts to CMB will come mainly from STR and from size (legendary proportions). Don't worry too much about it, just make the switch to two-handers at some point as your natural weapon never get extra attacks from bab progression. I can't say I am a big fan of fauchard for unfair, because that makes the build VERY artisan reliant (you need to get Serpent prince - mastery in decent time) because the game just doesn't offer you many fauchards. Since you are running it as your only melee char here though, you have teamwork feat slots to spare, so it might be interesting for you to pick up Martial Weapon Proficiency just in case Shani'ya is not giving you what you need.

 

[Yosharian]

Fuck random loot. I live to see the mod that changes that shit.

 

[Chippy]

Getting ready for another playthrough. With UMD, was it a bug that you couldn't use magic items, arms, and armor - or a design decision. Saves me putting 1 point into that skill for certain characters and lugging that suit of platemail around for the entire game.

 

[Daidre]

Getting ready for another playthrough. With UMD, was it a bug that you couldn't use magic items, arms, and armor - or a design decision. Saves me putting 1 point into that skill for certain characters and lugging that suit of platemail around for the entire game.

UMD in P:K by design only works for wands and scrolls. So alas, no way to cheese alignment/class restrictions on weapons and armor, like for monk robes.

 

[Yosharian]

Getting ready for another playthrough. With UMD, was it a bug that you couldn't use magic items, arms, and armor - or a design decision. Saves me putting 1 point into that skill for certain characters and lugging that suit of platemail around for the entire game.

UMD in P:K by design only works for wands and scrolls. So alas, no way to cheese alignment/class restrictions on weapons and armor, like for monk robes.

I mean it's not really cheese, it's how the ability is meant to work.

 

[Chippy]

Last build I played I was able to switch from two-handed style to two-weapon style with x3 bastard swords respectively. It seems that's now been changed, with the single bastard sword now being used for a 'single weapon style' that benefits the Magus class. I've got some mods installed that are doing something funky with damage bonus from equipment (think it's the Tiefling long limbs feat), so finding it hard to test - so have they now reserved the dwarven urgosh, two-bladed sword, etc for two-handed and two-weapon style, or would that be OP?. Thanks.

 

[Chippy]

What I think is happening is the oversized weapon -2 is cancelled out by teifling's oversized limbs trait (whatever it's called), but I tested it on Valerie respecced to 20 STR from 10 STR and at 10 she had no damage modifier, but at 20 she was getting 5-15 damage with the dwarven urgosh. I was gonna say she's getting some extra damage - but it's 1d10 axe and 1d8 spear end isn't it? So the game is just showing the axe on the left and right, instead of the spear end in the off hand...?

Edit: No, its 1d8 / 1d6, so she's getting some extra damage somewhere.

 

[Haplo]

Enlarge?

 

[Chippy]

Enlarge?

THanks, but nope. I went a bit cross-eyed before finally deciding that the two-handed damage bonus does not apply to double weapons. It clearly states one-handed, but the previous build with bastard swords threw me off. I suppose it makes sense, as it could have been used with almost every style/class.

 

[volklore]

Dunno if it's been posted here, but here is a post detailing how artisan work. I knew they all had favored kingdom stats but apparently they all have events/projects that are unlocking their tiers and you need to unlock 6 tiers to unlock the masterpiece to be rolled for. I also assume whatever they can roll is governed by how many tiers you unlocked.
I had no idea that random region projects had any effect on artisans for example, I thought only their favored kingdom stats, building/upgrading their shop, upgrading the village to town and their personal quests had any effect.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Pathfinder...ns/efx1rhp/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x

In my current playthrough I have had trouble getting major stats above 6-7 before coronation. If you wanna try and push for an artisan as early as possible (let's say shaniya for example since she's the only way to get any fucking fauchard before vendors at rushlight) do you just ignore other stats and build only for economy > Community > Relations ?

 

[Haplo]

From my experience, it is not necessary. When I was lucky, Sahiya made me some good stuff before I fulfilled most of these conditions (late Act 2/early Act 3). Completed her quests ASAP. Also the post doesn't include any info about town upgrades and workshop upgrades - but I had the feeling artisans in upgraded towns brought better equipment on average - granted I don't have a good sample to back this up. I did upgrade Sahiya's workshop ASAP.

Anyway, if the date is fully accurate, you can try with early Relations, but forget about Economy VIII for now - you can only reach VI before Coronation. Another reason Act V is so critical for Artisan development: Coronation 2 Tiers, Kingdom stats above VI unlocked, Regional Upgrades unlocked.
Generally forget about masterpieces and top-tier items before that (but there's some good stuff below top-tier also, like in Sahiya's case Serpent Prince fauchard or Oppressor bastard sword).

Also another decent reason to go Hour of Rage first in Act IV, to have to Coronation event ASAP.

 

[volklore]

Well sadly that's a no go for this PT I feel, because of a combination of RP and Choices, I am pretty sure I'll be short of a councilor for the rest of the game unless I do Candlemere first

Spoiler

Executed the lamashtu priestess, will probably do the same with traitor tristian so unless I go surtova all the way - I'll be short of a councilor for the rest of the game I assume - unless I am willing to spare tristian which tbh doesn't feel right for my char

 

[Haplo]

But Relations are governed by Grand Diplomat, not Councilor...

 

[Yosharian]

How about we just wait for a mod that fixes the entire fucking mess that is artisan crafting

 

[volklore]

But Relations are governed by Grand Diplomat, not Councilor...

I know, I feel like I'll have trouble being short of an advisor (let alone one I developped quite a bit) for kingdom management (i have it set on hard)

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

THE GLORY OF TURN BASED COMBAT HAS ARRIVED ON KANGMAKER!!!

Turn-Based Combat* (Mod on Nexusmods)
https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/109

*(experimental)

 

[amurath]

From my experience, it is not necessary. When I was lucky, Sahiya made me some good stuff before I fulfilled most of these conditions (late Act 2/early Act 3). Completed her quests ASAP. Also the post doesn't include any info about town upgrades and workshop upgrades - but I had the feeling artisans in upgraded towns brought better equipment on average - granted I don't have a good sample to back this up. I did upgrade Sahiya's workshop ASAP.

Anyway, if the date is fully accurate, you can try with early Relations, but forget about Economy VIII for now - you can only reach VI before Coronation. Another reason Act V is so critical for Artisan development: Coronation 2 Tiers, Kingdom stats above VI unlocked, Regional Upgrades unlocked.
Generally forget about masterpieces and top-tier items before that (but there's some good stuff below top-tier also, like in Sahiya's case Serpent Prince fauchard or Oppressor bastard sword).

Also another decent reason to go Hour of Rage first in Act IV, to have to Coronation event ASAP.

Given the power of the bite/trip combination in the current meta, do you think that all melee builds should ultimately aim for that in order to maximize DPS? For example, would your GVS SS be better mechanically than a bite/trip SS? Something along the lines of SS17/Vivi2/Monk1 might work well. I realize that it would in some ways be a poor's man's vivi build, but I think it has enough differentiating factors to be interesting.