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KickStarter Pathologic 2 (AKA Pathologic remake)

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Crooked Bee, Nov 27, 2013.

  1. Maybe I should sign up for retranslation team?
    Show Spoiler
    :troll:
     
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  2. Irxy Arcane

    Irxy
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    Don't know what to think of it, seems the devs have totally wrong priorities here, talking about changing interior designs, music, introducing new quirky mechanics and plotlines - while these are the things which were great about the game to begin with and don't really need any improvement or radical change, while what sucked the most (aside from english translation I don't care about) was the actual gameplay and all of its mechanics and systems, and I don't see any official acknowledge of this.
     
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  3. DefJam101 Arcane

    DefJam101
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    Mechanics and systems were fine, whatchu talkin bout

    Combat needs to be smoothed out, game needs less shitty character models, game needs a real translation
     
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  4. Irxy Arcane

    Irxy
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    Nah, the gameplay basically consists of running between linear plot points to read dialogs, and spending the rest of the day with a survival sim which is bad and highly repetitive and consists of checking trash bins and robbing houses, which instantly respawn items each time you leave them and there are no consequences for anything. Plot and atmosphere? Great. Gameplay? Bad. Combat? Yeah, it sucks, but who cares - shooting a random looter for stuff is just part of the broken system and is 1% of gameplay anyway, improving controls here won't fix the overall design problem.
     
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  5. Yeah, that's a valid complain. Gameplay mechanics were never a strong part of Ice-Pick's games. They just deliver it in other ways.
    I tell you, even if this remake will be again quite shitty in that regard, you will still play it like a spellbound.
     
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  6. iqzulk Savant

    iqzulk
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    Well, not quite. The main point of Pathologic, as a game, is choosing the path between two given points, and reacting (and maybe correcting this path accordingly) to the unexpected challenges that arise on that path. Like, should you make a detour and check out this and this store, while on the way? Should you approach that little girl at the end of the street in order to barter with her? Visit such and such NPC for maybe activating some side-quests before the corresponding letters arrive (or maybe just to proceed with some of the side-quests already activated)? Should you make a detour to avoid the infected district altogether, or should you run for it because it's a shortcut.

    Like the entire basic gameplay routine is deciding after visiting each new main-quest-related NPC, should you go to each one via shortest route, or should choose a somewhat longer way that would help you to achieve such and such and such goals (both side-quest related and resource-collecting/exchanging-related). Do you have enough time to allow yourself the longer path? Do you have enough bullets in order to handle a potentially dangerous situation that would allow you to save some time, or to collect come of much-needed resources? Do you need resources bad enough, so that you would check out every trash bin and filling up every empty bottle with water in order to exchange it later for some bandages and whatnot? Like, the whole point of Pathologic as a game, is moving across the town (with all the stuff that could potentially happen on the way) and all questions logistical associated with it. This is the main gameplay routine of the game (survival/resource_management theme is, of course, also highly important, but it is a somewhat more high-level/longer_timespan mechanics) - and changing it would be to change the game in its entirety.

    Of course, that game was not ideal in that regard in any way. Having less time-per-day OR much more (like, 3-4 times more) side quests would have helped (so there would be No Chance whatsoever to accomplish ALL of them in one day, regardless to whatever speedrunner you might be, so you would need to seriously choose - on a side-note, having much more story-related C&C would also help, because the game literally had like 2.5 real story-related consequences). Constantly changing configuration of town from day to day with more than infection spread mean (like using barricades you CANNOT scale) would help. Forbidding the player to manually start the side-quests before the corresponding letters would arrive, by just blindly visiting all the town's NPCs at night, would also probably help (there were days when I accomplished all of the day quests - main one and all the side ones - by something like 8 A.M., because of that trick - and needed to sleep under meradorm for half of the day after that). Oh, and yes, the part of the game, that was about robbing houses (be it the normal ones, the infected ones or the quarantined ones) was absolutely the lousiest part of the game.

    And, BTW, IPL stated, that they are currently actively looking for a good game-designer (and also for a marketing guy - and there was also the third one, but I've already forgot who that might be) specifically for this remake.
     
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  7. Irxy Arcane

    Irxy
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    Agreed, I am not suggesting to change the core concept of course, but to fix and improve the systems so that we don't have to struggle with them due to clunkyness and repetitiveness to enjoy the good parts.
    Because it all sounds good on paper, but once you get the system (which doesn't take a lot of time and effort) the resource management (including time) is just a chore and that girl you see on the street is just a shop to exchange your needles for bullets (well, don't remember the exact details here) - and you don't really have to compromise anything. So yes, some heavy balancing is a must, though I'd actually prefer them to make it less linear with side quests and exploration.
     
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  8. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    FUCK YES.


    So it means that they will probably create game that will be playable in first place with good translation that doesn't look like shit.


    WTB pills WTS bullets

    [​IMG]
     
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  9. Konjad High on potatoes Patron

    Konjad
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    They were planning this remake for two years already, however, always postponed it. Pathologic is fairly modern and good looking game, it only needs a better English translation, therefore I don't really see the point of making it anew. It's a great game as it is, what else are they going to improve apart from translation? Add some shaders? I very much doubt they have good ideas for improving gameplay. I can see why they are doing this though. Pathologic, their first game, was amazing. Their second, Tension The Void which was also good, sold better (I don't think Pathologic sold well beyond Russia), but their third and fourth game seemed to be failures (Cargo was for sure, but Knock-Knock was very cheap and on Steam, so it might have been quite profitable, but was it?). Going back to their best game, doing some lesser stuff and cashing again seems like a business thinking to me. However, I wish them good luck, albeit I won't support it. Hopefully this will lead to another good game later on. Something of the quality of Pathologic or Tension The Void, not another XtReMe KoOl WeIrDo GaEm xD xD along Cargo.
     
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  10. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    Sorry but Pathologic looks like game from 99 in places, has clunky as fuck gameplay, broken translation and simply deserves proper remake like no other game. It was their first game and it shows.
    The Void on other hand was superb on all fronts.
    If Pathologic can receive The Void polish then this will be GoTY contender and should be no problem to say its name along Planescape: Torment or Mask of the Betrayer.

    They don't really need to change anything about story or interaction. Maybe they can evolve it a bit (adding content and interactions) but core of what is Phatologic lore, events, characters should stay imo in unchanged form.

    I would love spiritual sequel to P1 but i know that there are shitton of people who would enjoy Pathologic1 if it wasn't broken clunky mess.


    Fuck i hope this will finally set Ice Pick Logic on a straight to get new amazing games out of them.
     
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  11. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    continue his work ? They are making remake not HD version. Fans of Pathologic 1 will appreciate proper good translation
     
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  12. sexbad? Arcane Patron

    sexbad?
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    :russia::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::bounce::martini::brodex::takemymoney::takemyjewgold::codexisforindividualswithgenderidentityissues::bravo:
     
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  13. sexbad? Arcane Patron

    sexbad?
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    Ice-Pick was actually planning another game called The Frost, which would span something like seven decades and, I suppose, be similar in structure to Pathologic. Apparently Atari offered them millions of dollars/euro in its last gasp of life, but the developers didn't go through with it for whatever reason. We might have that to look forward to after this.
     
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  14. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    Atari doing what is best in. Bankrupting.
     
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  15. DefJam101 Arcane

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    Unfortunately Pathologic (Pestilence? My gut feeling is Pestilence is a better title but fuck it localization let's go) is both one of the very few games that deserves to be remade and one of the easiest games to screw up in the process of remaking it. Tweaking the pace of Pathologic's combat / movement / general gameplay could easily undermine the whole game if done poorly. They need to, for instance, somehow make knifing thugs less awkward without allowing the player to escape scot-free with ease (turning thugs into an easily gamed source of free money and food), or turn thugs into unrealistically capable ubermenschen, or make knifing thugs fun, or at any point cause the player to feel like an action hero knife fighter / gunman, and so on. And that's just the combat. Even simple things like upping the movement speed to decrease time spent holding W could potentially fuck up the game's emotional impact if done incorrectly.

    You could fuck up the look of the game with shitty overbright specular maps, misuse of modern lighting effects, or (the most likely misstep) making all of the characters and environments look generically attractive or slick in that dumb video gamey way I can't quite describe yet hate with a passion. This game needs to somehow look fucking ugly and good at the same time, in an age where "scary horror game creatures" tend to look like normal mapped plastic dolls because designers are scared to death of modeling 3D entities with fewer than 15 million polygons, or covering those models in anything less than their best ultra-slick next-gen shader technology

    I can't think of many games so susceptible to becoming shit if left in the hands of people who don't know what they're doing. Pathologic is a broken mess and it's still just that good. Ice-Pick are quality developers so I suppose if anyone can remake it successfully, it's them — assuming they don't fuck up the translation from the get-go. No pressure, dudes

    Great news, in any case. I'm cautiously optimistic.
     
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  16. I. B. Ballin quorum plaustra vagas rite trahunt domos Patron

    I. B. Ballin
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    Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
    I will be watching this. I tried playing Pathologic as-is, but found the translation to be near-incomprehensible in very important (read: plot-relevant & instructional) parts.

    Here's hoping that Ice-Pick Lodge has not begun a fight with a truly undefeatable foe.
     
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  17. Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd Arcane Patron

    Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd
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    Divinity: Original Sin Torment: Tides of Numenera Pathfinder: Kingmaker
    Nikolai Dybowsky somewhere talked about possibility of bringing new playable characters into remake. AFAIK originally there were supposed to be five of them: Bachelor, Haruspex, Devotress, General & Inquisitor, but the latter two were had to be cut due budget and schedule.
     
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  18. DefJam101 Arcane

    DefJam101
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    Take it slow, Ice-Pick, take it slow...
     
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  19. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Average Manatee
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    I agree entirely, DefJam. Pathologic, intentionally or unintentionally, struck a very precise balance between a lot of things that could be easily ruined by a remake.

    Another thing to be wary about is increasing visual distances in the same way that Morrowind's sense of exploration gets ruined if mods let you see half the island.
     
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  20. Erzherzog Magister

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    My thoughts exactly.
     
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  21. dnf Pedophile Dumbfuck Shitposter

    dnf
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    Things they need to fix:

    1-combat, both melee and shotting
    2-stealth
    3- Less backtracking
    4- Better animations, less piss filter
     
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  22. Perkel Arcane

    Perkel
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    Stretch goals incoming !
     
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  23. Brother None inXile Entertainment Developer

    Brother None
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    Gonna throw so much money at this 's not even funny.
     
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  24. Azrael the cat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Azrael the cat
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    [/Codexers sign up for the translation team]

    Icepick Lodge, a few months later: "But...our professional translators assured us that 'librul faggot' was a common English honorific! What do you mean...no, that...that can't be right - Vlad, run down to the US consulate and check that 'tasteful rape' means what we were told it means, will you?"
     
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  25. Azrael the cat Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

    Azrael the cat
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    I agree that this could very easily break the game's appeal. It's not just an issue of competence either. Ice-Pick still seems to be in its golden age, but even talented and in-form designers can screw this sort of project up simply because they're not in the same headspace as they were at the time. They've been pursuing different concepts, the ideas that fascinated them at that time might now feel mundane, they might have new and genuinely interesting game ideas that could work really well in a new project but are out of place in the remake, or their improved technical proficiency might make it professionally unbearable for them not to polish technical flaws that gave the game character.

    The visual designs in The Void give reason for hope, though. They've shown that they're capable of producing higher quality graphics without becoming generic.
     
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