KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

 

[PanteraNera]

Some new images from discord.

Map generation at work

A reactor from the new industrial map as seen in BB3 going boom

And some new videos got posted on trello, if you haven't played BB3 check these out to fly through the new maps:
Scavenging maps
Alien maps
Industrial maps
Residential maps

Make sure to check out the alien maps, it is beautiful.

 

[Zombra]

Is this the first non-Japanese game to advertise tentacle physics?

 

[Alienman]

Just tried the backer thing version 3 and boy is the combat atrocious. Kickstarter regret of the century and according to Xolla every payment is final.

 

[PanteraNera]

boy is the combat atrocious

Can you elaborate that?

 

[Alienman]

It just feel and look uninspired as hell.

Low ammo, and every time you fire you waste 3 shots. Not only that, they take reaction fire on everything which waste even more ammo. Feels like I'm missing control over things. The aliens are also ugly. They look like anorectic burn-victims, so not sure what happened here. And for some reason they constantly suicided with grenades. One blew himself up on a roof. The others gathered around in a lobby kind of room and took turns blowing each others up.

I don't know man. I was hoping to make a small video, but the combat I played just drained every little remaining hope I had so I uninstalled.

 

[ArchAngel]

It just feel and look uninspired as hell.

Low ammo, and every time you fire you waste 3 shots. Not only that, they take reaction fire on everything which waste even more ammo. Feels like I'm missing control over things. The aliens are also ugly. They look like anorectic burn-victims, so not sure what happened here. And for some reason they constantly suicided with grenades. One blew himself up on a roof. The others gathered around in a lobby kind of room and took turns blowing each others up.

I don't know man. I was hoping to make a small video, but the combat I played just drained every little remaining hope I had so I uninstalled.

I don't know what you are talking about, aliens blowing themselves up is classic X-com experience.

 

[Alienman]

Not on this scale. There were like 4 aliens or whatever they are sitting in a room and throwing grenades. First I had no idea what was going on. There was random smoke effects going off, but then I noticed that the crabmen was taking damage after every smoke puff. One fell through the roof in slow motion. Took like 3 minutes for him to complete the fall.

 

[Israfael]

Map generation at work

Is it actually random or just looks are randomized? As far as I remember, old X-com maps were assembled from randomized pre-fabbed blocks (as in they had different layout as a whole, but similar looks of each block)

 

[PanteraNera]

It just feel and look uninspired as hell.

Low ammo, and every time you fire you waste 3 shots. Not only that, they take reaction fire on everything which waste even more ammo. Feels like I'm missing control over things. The aliens are also ugly. They look like anorectic burn-victims, so not sure what happened here. And for some reason they constantly suicided with grenades. One blew himself up on a roof. The others gathered around in a lobby kind of room and took turns blowing each others up.

I don't know man. I was hoping to make a small video, but the combat I played just drained every little remaining hope I had so I uninstalled.

Well I have experienced mostly the opposite, I played for 20+ hours Backer Build 3 and very likely more if I had the time.

Regarding low ammo you can always craft more ammo on the Geoscape. Also with free aim you have clearly visualized how many of your shots will hit. Also most of the times I use 2 assault rifles and a shotgun for my assault soldiers, so I won't need to craft any ammunition as those use up resources that are spent better. My soldiers rarely miss and only do so if I try a lucky shot half across the map. My sniper misses an awful lot and Snapshot are aware that something is off. I rarely use overwatch and if I do so I use it on places were they will not shoot across the whole map. Same for reaction fire it is about positioning. Thought other people seem to have problems with that as well.

Regarding aliens with grenade launchers, i had them only shoot once in my 20 hours of playtime and it hit a soldier of mine. Usually I use free aim to shoot weapons off as soon as I see an alien wielding one.

The enemy AI is really bad at times, this is cause they added a lot of new mutations and combinations without updating the AI. Thought old combinations from BB1 work good-ish.

 

[Israfael]

. Not only that, they take reaction fire on everything which waste even more ammo.

Hmm, if only there were a mechanic that limited reaction fire and made it dependent on the aliens or soldier's reaction

 

[Alienman]

Glad you like it PanteraNera

Myself I'm having the worst buyers remorse. I'm having a hard time describing how poor it feels. It's like they are trying to make a nuXcom game but with zero of the flair. Mostly I just can't believe how the older games like the original X-com, and Apocalypse still play and look so much better than anything coming out now. I'm guessing it's finally dawning on me that we(I) are never getting anything like those games ever again, considering this is made by that guy that made those games in the first place. Dream is dead.

 

[PanteraNera]

. Not only that, they take reaction fire on everything which waste even more ammo.

Hmm, if only there were a mechanic that limited reaction fire and made it dependent on the aliens or soldier's reaction

Or/and limited field of view.

 

[Latelistener]

I'm guessing it's finally dawning on me that we(I) are never getting anything like those games ever again, considering this is made by that guy that made those games in the first place. Dream is dead.

There is no need to be upset: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/index.p...ased-tactics-by-finnish-lunatic.101444/page-8

 

[Alienman]

Yeah, I'm following that, and it looks great. I still have my doubts. It will probably be good, but I have feeling it won't surpass any of the classics. I want that to happen though!
The game that come most close is Battle Brothers for me, but it's a close, still far away type of thing from the likes of X-com and JA2.

 

[PanteraNera]

Glad you like it PanteraNera

Myself I'm having the worst buyers remorse. I'm having a hard time describing how poor it feels. It's like they are trying to make a nuXcom game but with zero of the flair. Mostly I just can't believe how the older games like the original X-com, and Apocalypse still play and look so much better than anything coming out now. I'm guessing it's finally dawning on me that we(I) are never getting anything like those games ever again, considering this is made by that guy that made those games in the first place. Dream is dead.

What I really do not understand is, Phoenix Point uses a full TU system you can move, shoot, reload, use equipment in any order, several times, in any combination as long as you have the TU's to do so.

The game is still in pre-alpha, they say themselves that it has flaws as it is work in progress.

Do I like the mood and design of the original vision better? You should know the answer to that! But honestly I can live with that if they deliver on the gameplay.

 

[Alienman]

Yes, I know. Hard to put my finger on it, but everything just feels off. Like there is still restrictions with classes. UI is consolized and look very unattractive. Same with the geoscape. In Apocalypse we got this big juicy detailed city, and now with all the modern tech in the world we get a simple dark and moody black 2D picture to represent the world, with dots as "action hot-spots".

It's just stuff like that, everything feels like a regression from old...

 

[ArchAngel]

Glad you like it PanteraNera

Myself I'm having the worst buyers remorse. I'm having a hard time describing how poor it feels. It's like they are trying to make a nuXcom game but with zero of the flair. Mostly I just can't believe how the older games like the original X-com, and Apocalypse still play and look so much better than anything coming out now. I'm guessing it's finally dawning on me that we(I) are never getting anything like those games ever again, considering this is made by that guy that made those games in the first place. Dream is dead.

I had this feeling watching that video of Tim Cain and Boyarski playing Fallout and shitting on it all the time (Boyarski more than Cain). After that nobody intelligent can expect them to be able to make another masterpiece like Fallout.

 

[Latelistener]

They created it, so they can shit as much as they want in my opinion. I personally love this game, but to be fair it has a shit ton of problems, starting from balance.

 

[PanteraNera]

Map generation at work

Is it actually random or just looks are randomized? As far as I remember, old X-com maps were assembled from randomized pre-fabbed blocks (as in they had different layout as a whole, but similar looks of each block)

Good question I do not really know the answer to.

There is this article from DECEMBER 1, 2017

Building the Maps
While some of the maps within Phoenix Point will be hand-crafted, most will be procedurally generated. What this means, in the simplest terms, is an algorithm takes a selection of premade assets and assembles them based on a set of rules. This gives a different result every time, but helps to ensure that objects and buildings still work correctly. For example; buildings should always be placed so that external doors face a path or road (and of course, to make sure they do actually have external doors!). Buildings with two or more floors should always have at least one staircase, or some other means to access the higher floors.

First, we design a number of map layouts. These allow us to set the size of the map, the road and path layout, and the positions for any cover or buildings. The algorithm then places a random variation of the correct building type and of the correct size on each of the pre-allocated building spaces. Buildings can be made up of smaller, modular buildings for even more variation.

So far in Backer Build 3 the different maps look all the same, so no swapping of say big buildings, they are always the same buildings on the same place.

I always thought that Phoenix Point will have procedurally generated maps, with nearly endless combinations, but it could also mean that there will be, lets say 256 pre made maps that were procedurally generated.

Maybe UnstableVoltage can clear things up (if he knows the answer, he surely will).

 

[kirin]

. Not only that, they take reaction fire on everything which waste even more ammo.

Hmm, if only there were a mechanic that limited reaction fire and made it dependent on the aliens or soldier's reaction

Or/and limited field of view.

Phantom Doctrine has this weird hybrid system where only the enemies have limited fov, the player has 360, except when it comes to overwatch. Dunno if that's better than Xenonauts 2 being strictly like OG.

AI also matters a lot. If Phoenix Point aliens don't know how to use concealment and lay in ambush and use overwatch effectively for where they think the player will come from, then implementing all the complex mechanics in the game will only be for the player's benefit. Even the much vaunted physics-based projectile system depend on the AI knowing how to use it properly to fire on where they expect players to be when out of LOS.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Speaking about out of LOS; I wish they would add smoke grenades into the game.
That mist effect could be modified into quite good looking smoke.

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

Myself I'm having the worst buyers remorse. I'm having a hard time describing how poor it feels. It's like they are trying to make a nuXcom game but with zero of the flair. Mostly I just can't believe how the older games like the original X-com, and Apocalypse still play and look so much better than anything coming out now. I'm guessing it's finally dawning on me that we(I) are never getting anything like those games ever again, considering this is made by that guy that made those games in the first place. Dream is dead.

Dude.
May I ask what was the last tactical game that you actually enjoyed?
If I remember correctly you disliked Phantom Doctrine too to a point of refund (, me I played couple of levels, saw that there were some quirks and decided to wait for patches.)

 

[Zombra]

May I ask what was the last tactical game that you actually enjoyed?

Foxhole

 

[Taka-Haradin puolipeikko]

May I ask what was the last tactical game that you actually enjoyed?

Foxhole

You or him?