Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[rusty_shackleford]

Spoiler question about the plot and setting and ending.

Seriously don't click this if you haven't finished the game.

Spoiler

I looked up the ending since I didn't finish. The Engwithans created the gods, then tried to cover it up. But how did divine magic work before the gods existed? And if it didn't, and there were no clerics, wouldn't it be obvious that something very peculiar just happened and the gods didn't exist before?

Spoiler

We don't know.
Anything they(the gods) say is suspect because they're unreliable narrators. The only one I'd arguably trust is Eothas.

But...

Spoiler

IIRC, Magran states that priests etc., existed before them, and they erased existing mythology or some such. It has been a while since I've played.

 

[Grunker]

Spoiler question about the plot and setting and ending.

Seriously don't click this if you haven't finished the game.

Spoiler

I looked up the ending since I didn't finish. The Engwithans created the gods, then tried to cover it up. But how did divine magic work before the gods existed? And if it didn't, and there were no clerics, wouldn't it be obvious that something very peculiar just happened and the gods didn't exist before?

Spoiler

We don't know.
Anything they(the gods) say is suspect because they're unreliable narrators. The only one I'd arguably trust is Eothas.

But...

Spoiler

IIRC, Magran states that priests etc., existed before them, and they erased existing mythology or some such. It has been a while since I've played.

Spoiler

She says faiths and mythology existed - not actual gods or divine casters AFAIR

 

[aeroaeko]

Im playing pillars now for the first time and it's pretty great. I don't understand why everyone doesn't like this game. Only thing is sometimes it's really hard to keep track of what's happening in combat.

 

[Grunker]

everyone doesn't like this game

everyone doesn't like this game?

 

[rusty_shackleford]

Im playing pillars now for the first time and it's pretty great. I don't understand why everyone doesn't like this game. Only thing is sometimes it's really hard to keep track of what's happening in combat.

Final act is shit.

 

[MajorMace]

I like this game, but the first part is objectively the best (better level design, encounters at low level are more enjoyable etc).
When you get to Defiance Bay and onward, the world starts to disappoint, as the original buildup leads to nothing but more loremaster npcs. Also encounters feel less interesting (partly because the game opens up and you'll start to outlevel the content).
That's my take at least.

 

[Grunker]

I like this game, but the first part is objectively the best (better level design, encounters at low level are more enjoyable etc).
When you get to Defiance Bay and onward, the world start to disappoint, as the original buildup leads to nothing but more loremaster npcs. Also encounters feel less interesting (partly because the game opens up and you'll start to outlevel the content).
That's my take at least.

More or less, but White March is better than the base game.

 

[Shadenuat]

Spoiler question about the plot and setting and ending.

Seriously don't click this if you haven't finished the game.

Spoiler

I looked up the ending since I didn't finish. The Engwithans created the gods, then tried to cover it up. But how did divine magic work before the gods existed? And if it didn't, and there were no clerics, wouldn't it be obvious that something very peculiar just happened and the gods didn't exist before?

itz all soulz magic.

Pallegina is paladin and she shits on gods.

 

[chuft]

I enjoyed the game at first. I disliked the system immediately, it reminded me of a cross between DND3 and MMOs, but the graphics, interface and exploration was cool.

Then I paused the main quest to do White March and realized it had some brutal encounters that punished anyone who was not really good at the system. And I didn’t like the system so it was not worth the effort to learn what stacks with what etc. The spell and item effects are subtle and short lived, too much so for me.

Also got overwhelmed with hundreds of magic items that more or less seemed the same. Never seemed to get a game-changing spell, ability, or item.

 

[chuft]

Only thing is sometimes it's really hard to keep track of what's happening in combat.

I found this effect much much worse later on at higher levels. The game speed is crazy fast even in “slow” mode. I looked for a mod to cut the speed by 75% more or something but the game seems to have no mods, which in itself is very strange.

 

[Grunker]

Also got overwhelmed with hundreds of magic items that more or less seemed the same. Never seemed to get a game-changing spell, ability, or item.

PoE itemization easily outshines any other RPG. Not only are differences between base weapons way more impactful than in most RPGs where it's just a matter of dealing different types of die damage, the amount of build-defining items is staggering, and heaped on top of that you got Soulbound items which just have tons and tons of unique effects.

It gets even better in Deadfire, where I'm currently using a bow that switches between shock and pierce damage depending on the target and has a high chane pf summoning a huge variety of monsters on kill that are hostile to everyone - you and the enemy. Like all unique items it has unique, mutually exclusive upgrades where you can make the monsters last longer or become allied to you, as well as a set upgrade path. Another character is using a bow that fire multiple, less damaging projectiles instead of one and can cast a variety of powerful spells that are uniquely programmed for that bow, you can't get them anywhere else.

The only RPGs that can even begin to compete with PoE itemization is stuff like BG2.

 

[Shadenuat]

For what it's worth, PoE 1 relics are a lot more relicy than PoE 2. Especially since I don't think they ever got the Sid Meier HALF EVERYTHING treatment (except the Dagger). Unless Deadfire then got treatment again I am not aware about. But when all my items suddenly became +5% I just rolfed on my keyboard crying saaaawyer.

In beginning, PoE 1 itemization was fucken garbage. But when they added shit like Storm Bow or Not Carsomyr it became quite OK.

I believe that at many points, IE games still did more with less and by design it is better than any shit with +crafting slapped on top of it; but they also often had lower level caps and such. It was more liek "well there's just a fucken single +2 sword in whole game, so that does feel unique ok", "there's only single +3 katana in whole game which stuns everything - that is unique (obviously)".

But god that Deadfire patch when it came out was pure (╯°□°)╯︵ material

"That druid spear shit on stick did moar damage against enemy type which wasn't even present in the game except 2 encounters" "Now it is balanced - it does 5% more damage against enemy type which is only present in game in 2 encounters"
shoot yourself designer

 

[Eisenheinrich]

It's good for the White March content alone, rest of the game is good till meh depending on your progress in game. Final Act and climax felt very rushed and incomplete, never click on anything with a golden name plaque. Ah well, game is much more polished and playabla now since the release.

They should've scrapped both big cities in PoE for good and flashed out Gilded Vale and Dyrford more.

 

[chuft]

Items in PoE have quantitative differences. +4% this, +10% that

Items in AD&D had qualitative differences. You couldn’t kill a troll without a flaming sword (and you couldn’t make one yourself). Mace of Disruption. Vorpal Sword. Cloak of Mirroring, even a scroll of gaze reflection. These things were rare, had a huge impact, it made a real difference who was wielding them, and they were memorable. You built entire battle plans around employing them effectively.

I can’t recall a single PoE battle won because of an item, or trying to set up the effective use of one.

 

[Grunker]

why do people just invent stuff about this game

 

[Grunker]

I mean even ignoring my example you name Mace of Disruption yourself, and there is an item in PoE which does the exact same thing only more effectively because it targets more enemies and is way harder to save against. Either you people don't even know what you don't even know (likely here since you say you don't get the system), or just make stuff up

 

[chuft]

My level 13 party doesn’t have a single item I consider memorable or especially useful, other than the adra armor, which looks cool in the character sheet.

 

[Shadenuat]

You mean Redeemer? Relatively to time you get it, I think undead are not as big of a deal anymore (or at all in the game). You mostly fight then through campaign of ice giants and acid golems, whole dungeon on vitrak etc.

 

[Shadenuat]

Oh wait

 

[Grunker]

whole dungeon on vitrak etc.

Against which items that grant Confusion and Dominate immunity are quite the tactical advantage by the way but I guess that's just a 4% as well right!

 

[Grunker]

You mean Redeemer? Relatively to time you get it, I think undead are not as big of a deal anymore (or at all in the game). You mostly fight then through campaign of ice giants and acid golems, whole dungeon on vitrak etc.

By the time you get Mace of Disruption you have NPP making vampires a literal non-opponent, and those are just about the only undead which should trouble you at that point, not counting stuff like liches. But I mean, this is another argument where you just can't win, because even providing an example of a bow that switches damage types, does summoning, scales its abilities with the wielder's social skills and has unique upgrade paths with trade-offs or items with their own questlines which can do things like Dominate enemies on hit or change the way a character's own ability works will just be ignored in favor of a comment like "all poe items just give +4% bonus to damage!"

 

[Shadenuat]

whole dungeon on vitrak etc.

Against which items that grant Confusion and Dominate immunity are quite the tactical advantage by the way but I guess that's just a 4% as well right!

I would say if Cleric spells were not AoE, these items would be a lot more useful.

You mean Redeemer? Relatively to time you get it, I think undead are not as big of a deal anymore (or at all in the game). You mostly fight then through campaign of ice giants and acid golems, whole dungeon on vitrak etc.

By the time you get Mace of Disruption you have NPP making vampires a literal non-opponent, and those are just about the only undead which should trouble you at that point, not counting stuff like liches. But I mean, this is another argument where you just can't win, because even providing an example of a bow that switches damage types, does summoning, scales its abilities with the wielder's social skills and has unique upgrade paths with trade-offs will just be ignored in favor of a comment like "all poe items just give +4% bonus to damage!"

Game is quite non linear so you can complete this quest then go fight shadows, liches, there are move vampyrs in Spellhold, imba drain clouds (?) in Watcher's Keep, final fight with Bodhi, and Undead (?) Illithid (?), etc.

Nevertheless, Redeemer is not exactly a hard counter item. If it was in BG, you would never be able to whack a lich with it since lich would outlevel you always.

Doesn't mean it's weak or bad of course.

 

[Grunker]

whole dungeon on vitrak etc.

Against which items that grant Confusion and Dominate immunity are quite the tactical advantage by the way but I guess that's just a 4% as well right!

I would say if Cleric spells were not AoE, these items would be a lot more useful

Even if they were not (like, if they were all litanies), it would be boring IMO. Having an item that grants one character a tactical advantage is cool but granting total immunity to multiple characters is a bad class design. Didn't like it the IE-games and don't like it here. Priest is easily the worst class design in PoE1 IMO.

EDIT: NPP is a good example. A really boring spell that turns a dangerous enemy into an autoattack fest. Like PfP did against basilisk's in the first game.

If it was in BG, you would never be able to whack a lich with it since lich would outlevel you always.

Liches being vulnerable to that stuff in BG is incredibly boring - fortunately SCS makes them cast sensible spells that mean using a MoD against them is for the most part a terrible decision.

 

[Shadenuat]

The worst NPP is in NWN1. I think there it cancels any and all stat damage or drain.
Like, in Pathfinder Deathward is totally fine - +4 save (should be Sacred though), protection from level drain and negative channeling.

If enemy undead cyclops just got SCS treatment and did not spam channel when you're immune to it all day would be good compromise. It is only useful against monsters whos whole gimmick is drain but they're actually usually more than just that. And like, just make encounters more varied. Combine drain monsters with lich with dispel or something.

 

[Grunker]

What's weird is that Sawyer has stated multiple times he dislikes hard counters and then he designs a class that hard counters the entire game lol.

I think 5th edition D&D does it right. It's halfway OD&D halfway 4th edition. A Meduza's gaze can petrify you permanently (that's the OD&D), but the first failed save slows you, the second save paralyzes you and the third petrifies you. So you have to fight it, but it's not easy, and the effect is brutal.