Not sure why would you consider Caesar's Legion to be evil

[Ol' Willy]

barely literate postman.

10 INT, 100 Speech and 100 Science; late-game Courier is just one step of being demigod

 

[Silverfish]

This society built around conquest, not participate in conquest because there any need.

Yeah, if there's anything the Fallout setting has, it's abundant natural resources.

they will not able to build any society that is better than "evul NCR"

No critic of the NCR thinks that they're "evil", just inefficient, threadbare and largely directionless.

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

Yeah, if there's anything the Fallout setting has, it's abundant natural resources.

I can feel like you trying to squeeze every bits of sarcasm you can master, but your attempt is ultimate failure, considering how dumb this attempt to look witty.
I mean, how much of an idiot one can be to think that war more efficient in terms of a resource management than just trying to live a calm life.
And it does not matter how much "glorious" rulers could plan -war always more expensive than in plans.
And this is returns us to my argument - Legion only can wage war and built with sole purpose to wage war. Therefore this perpetual war will cost humanity dearly in terms of resorces, of all kinds.
Yes, for NCR war cost resources, but at least their reason for war is not utterly non-sensical and imbecilic.

NCR: "We just want resources and chill. If you don't give resources to us? Well, we kick your ass."
Legion: "Reee society of the past is evul Reee, so we will dress and act as society of a more distant past, but with more puritan views than said society. Also we want to not repeating Great War, by starting our own big scale war and will act so cruel - people will want to nuke us."
Fucking idiotic.

I know people, that melee builds in FNV require Int to be a dump stat, but wanting to play faction in silly red clothes is not a reason to dump your IRL Int.

 

[Silverfish]

I mean, how much of an idiot one can be to think that war more efficient in terms of a resource management than just trying to live a calm life.

You're right, throughout history, conflicts have never broken out over resources. In retrospect, it's an obviously silly statement.

NCR: "We just want resources and chill. If you don't give resources to us? Well, we kick your ass."
Legion: "Reee society of the past is evul Reee, so we will dress and act as society of a more distant past, but with more puritan views than said society. Also we want to not repeating Great War, by starting our own big scale war and will act so cruel - people will want to nuke us."

"Plundering resources is fine so long as you aren't driven by ideology."

 

[Rinslin Merwind]

You're right, throughout history, conflicts have never broken out over resources. In retrospect, it's an obviously silly statement.



"Plundering resources is fine so long as you aren't driven by ideology."

Ok, you are just mentally inept. Arguing with ill person is pointless, so I am going just wish you a nice taste for your medicine and depart.

 

[Silverfish]

I accept your verbal white flag.

 

[Sweeper]

I mean, how much of an idiot one can be to think that war more efficient in terms of a resource management than just trying to live a calm life.

Come on bro.

 

[Mexi]

Keep in mind Nipton was near the front lines. The Legion's main intention was to demoralize the inhabitants of the NCR outpost a stone's throw away from town (they let you carry the message).

"Sending a message" by killing innocent people is still evil. Remember, this is all we are arguing here. I've already explained that the Legion's military prowess and such means jackshit when the player can singlehandedly tip the Second Battle of Hoover Dam in the NCR's favor.

Not if it saves live. I mean there is still a grey area in terms of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan. Probably would've had more causalities if the US didn't is one of the arguments for the drop. Remember, this is a war, and both sides want to win it as swiftly as possible. Means more lives are spared.

 

[Harthwain]

Not if it saves live. I mean there is still a grey area in terms of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan. Probably would've had more causalities if the US didn't is one of the arguments for the drop.

Atomic bombs had lesser impact than people like to think. More people died in the conventional bombing of Tokyo than in the "unconventional" bombing of Hiroshima. It gets even worse for Hiroshima['s bombing effect] if you calculate how much destruction it actually caused, compared to regular bombings.

The reason behind the surrender was more conventional:

Prime Minister [Kantaro] Suzuki told the meeting of the Supreme Council that the Soviet Union's entry into the war made the situation hopeless. It was impossible to continue. The Allies' terms offered at Potsdam must be accepted.

That night the meeting was resumed in the presence of Emperor Hirohito, it continued into the small hours of the morning. Following the Emperor's lead the Council finally agreed to the Allies' terms [...]

The Soviet declaration of war also changed the calculation of how much time was left for maneuver. Japanese intelligence was predicting that U.S. forces might not invade for months. Soviet forces, on the other hand, could be in Japan proper in as little as 10 days. The Soviet invasion made a decision on ending the war extremely time sensitive.

And Japan’s leaders had reached this conclusion some months earlier. In a meeting of the Supreme Council in June 1945, they said that Soviet entry into the war "would determine the fate of the Empire." Army Deputy Chief of Staff Kawabe said, in that same meeting, "The absolute maintenance of peace in our relations with the Soviet Union is imperative for the continuation of the war."

 

[Sigourn]

Not if it saves live. I mean there is still a grey area in terms of dropping the atomic bomb on Japan. Probably would've had more causalities if the US didn't is one of the arguments for the drop. Remember, this is a war, and both sides want to win it as swiftly as possible. Means more lives are spared.

Don't get me wrong. While I'm aware killing innocent may save lives, the truth is the way the Legion did it was awful. As effective as it may be, I draw the line at "killing people and getting a kick out of it", which Vulpes and the Legion most certainly did.

 

[Nifft Batuff]

Roman Empire brought us Nero burning roms, so a Roman inspired faction cannot be so evil.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Roman Empire brought us Nero burning roms, so a Roman inspired faction cannot be so evil.

That's just something to fiddle with though, not a big deal.

 

[Nano]

I don't care about this discussion anymore, but

Not sure why would you consider Caesar's Legion to be evil.

Were the female slaves not enough of a clue for you?

Are you guys not going to stop rating this? It's literally from a year ago.

 

[Rico66]

Nooo, not muh female slaverinos!

 

[Nano]

Nooo, not muh female slaverinos!

Wow, you can talk! I thought all you do is rate posts.

 

[Rico66]

Apparently the number of posts wasn't a sufficient clue.

 

[Crichton]

For fuck's sake, Infinitron, just create a 'try-hard pro-legion millennial faggot' subforum and put all these fucking threads in it!

I replayed New Vegas last year and chose what I think is the most satisfying ending, NCR + Boomers, Khans, Enclave and BoS with a revitalized Hanlon. I also enjoyed similar independent (+ minor factions) ending year ago; I've never tried the House ending (won't sell out the Brotherhood). I really enjoyed the character writing in New Vegas; I just wish they could have cut some of the stupid shit out of the setting (Caesar's Legion, the Vegas families being recently-repurposed raiders, ghouls with pre-war knowledge that apparently no one will listen to). 10 years on, I'd say the game holds up, but some of the same issues still bother me. Without rehashing all the same points from this thread and it's 134325463 predecessors, the three biggest cognitive dissonance issues I saw in NV are:

1) All these Shakespeare-in-the-park larpers cluttering up my post-apocolyptic game. It's difficult to keep your western post-apoc vibes when legioniggers dressed like this (https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Legion_centurion_armor) are literally chucking spears at you. The whole thing is so stupid looking that I can't understand why Sawyer was able to sell the others on it; it reminds me strongly of the Black Panther movie, all these spear-chuckers, but I'm supposed to take it seriously because they're vibranium spears. I suppose in the abstract it isn't much dumber than things like rippers and power fists and whatnot, but that stuff never bothered me the same way (I played 2nd edition warhammer 40K around the same time I first played Fallout). This is more like some of the new 40K art where you have space marines in primitive-looking armor, wielding power swords that just look like swords and I can't tell if this is supposed to be fantasy or science fiction.

2) The NCR/Legion/BoS needs you! (to solve all of our problems). It may be unfair to pick on NV for this since so many games have this problem, but I really felt like it was shoved in my face this time. There's this legion-occupied town named Nelson which has two groups of NCR troops camped outside of it (one of rangers, one of draftees), wishing they could reoccupy it. But of course, they sit on their hands until you come along. If you add up all the NCR troops, I think they outnumber the legion garrison 2:1 and they all have decent guns, where as half of Caesar's legioniggers are equipped with nothing but machetes and radroach meat (to be fair, one is a magical unique machete) and their meager numbers are bolstered by stray dogs. A low-level player with a varmint rifle can clear the town on his own, but this is still some insurmountable problem for a whole camp of armed NPCs.

3) Too many cooks spoil the soup. I haven't dug through the wiki to figure out who wrote every quest in NV, but I can't reconcile the different parts of the NCR ending. The player is able to convince the BoS, Enclave (remnants) and Khans to bury the hatchet and support the NCR despite the recent bloodshed between them (ok perhaps he's really convincing) but cannot convince the NCR and House to work together despite the fact that they've been working together for years (???). It gets even dumber, an independent-minded player can force the NCR and Legion out of New Vegas with his army of stolen Securitrons, but a pro-Legion or pro-NCR player has no way of using these super-robots to support his chosen faction. He can't even tell his allies about them.

 

[Commissar Draco]

So much from the triggered NCR profligates on this thread.

 

[ERYFKRAD]

So much from the triggered NCR profligates on this thread.

Fuck the NCR.

 

[MartinK]

Yeah, if there's anything the Fallout setting has, it's abundant natural resources.

Given the population density the resources are kind of plentiful.

 

[Silverfish]

You may be right. Since the desert can support half a million raiders.

 

[Deadass]

I don't care about this discussion anymore, but

Not sure why would you consider Caesar's Legion to be evil.

Were the female slaves not enough of a clue for you?

Are you guys not going to stop rating this? It's literally from a year ago.

thanks for the reminder i'm gonna rate it right now

 

[MartinK]

Nippton is like firebombing of Dresden. Legion did it because it could; instilling fear and crush the will to resist.

The lessons learned form firebombing of Dresden is that it does not work as intended and might in fact make the enemy fight back harder.

 

[Ol' Willy]

The lessons learned form firebombing of Dresden is that it does not work as intended and might in fact make the enemy fight back harder.

It works this way only against strong willed nations like Germans or Russians. English would have started peace talks quickly after Liverpool or Manchester is reduced to rubble. Before some Brit will come here puffing his chest about "unbroken British will" I would like to remind that bombing of Hamburg alone took almost as much lives as the entire German Blitz

 

[vota DC]

The lessons learned form firebombing of Dresden is that it does not work as intended and might in fact make the enemy fight back harder.

It works this way only against strong willed nations like Germans or Russians. English would have started peace talks quickly after Liverpool or Manchester is reduced to rubble. Before some Brit will come here puffing his chest about "unbroken British will" I would like to remind that bombing of Hamburg alone took almost as much lives as the entire German Blitz

English had more casualties in ww1. Shortly after ww2 they deserted from Greece instead of staying there and usa replaced then in Europe. They were so mentally broken that were about to merge with France but since the french were invaded despite suffering 1/3 casualties of ww1 they refused.