Incline Temple of Elemental Evil

[Consul]

What happened to her? Is she no longer posting on the codex?

 

[rojay]

Grinding at all is unnecessary. If you beat the frogs, you automatically go up to level 2.

I remember getting lvl2 on frogs. There were some random fights before I think, but I certainly wasn't grinding on purpose.

The point is, don't get fooled into thinking that Hommlet has anything cool to offer, with all the buildings and npcs. It doesn't and you should get the fuck out of there right away.

Homlet has to offer great graphics. And music. Always loved to just casually stroll there, talking to npcs, finishing some quest, sets the mood alright. Just take your time to appreciate the surroundings, life is not just killing and looting.

Agreed. The first time you play the game, you should play the game, including Hommlet. Thereafter...

 

[Darth Canoli]

It's simply a very direct implementation of the original adventure module.

It's easy to add some content while preparing a PnP session but you can't do that with a cRPG.

So the dev Team has to offer a satisfying experience, content-wise and ToEE just don't cut it, it's a shame, the engine is great and Temple+ shows how much the base game can be improved.
If a couple of modders can fix bugs and add so many classes, how come a professional company can only release a game with a few basic classes and limited content?

It's not like we get so many good engines for RPG we can just give them a pass, had they delivered what Temple+ did and some extra content and turn Hommlet into something engaging, the game would have been a huge commercial success, making possible a couple of sequels in the same engine.

And because of that failure, we got a 15 years decent cRPG drought, a few indies (sometimes great) excepted.

 

[RPK]

If a couple of modders can fix bugs and add so many classes, how come a professional company can only release a game with a few basic classes and limited content?

Because professional companies often have non-self-imposed deadlines. I don't remember the whole story, but this was published by atari right? They were notorious for forcing developers to publish games before they were finished.

 

[Cael]

Hommlet has holy longsword +1 though. You can teleport around with temple+, just use some guide from sorcerers.net and zigzag the quests. Inhale the atmosphere etc...

Don't forget the masterwork 1d10 hand axe.

 

[Falksi]

What happened to her? Is she no longer posting on the codex?

She realized Jagged Alliance 2 isn't an RPG and self combusted Scanners style.

 

[Comte_II]

So Temple+, or circle of eight mod? Which is better?

 

[Jvegi]

So Temple+, or circle of eight mod? Which is better?

Both. They are in no way exclusive. Skip co8 if you want more of a vanilla experience, but it's fine.

 

[Comte_II]

So Temple+, or circle of eight mod? Which is better?

Both. They are in no way exclusive. Skip co8 if you want more of a vanilla experience, but it's fine.

Can you install both?

 

[anvi]

Just do Temple+ for tech reasons, the co8 was buggy jank imo. When you finish TOEE start KOTC2, it's like a sequel.

 

[Gargaune]

Can you install both?

Yes, Temple+ is an engine update, Co8 is a content update. You can use the latter's Standard edition for bugfixes and stuff while staying closer to vanilla.

 

[Üstad]

From here (once you clear out the Temple) next game to go is Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor.

Even bigger dungeon with lots of hidden passages. And no boring Hommlet to suck away your motivation!

You'll have a jolly good time. Just don't try to uninstall it. It's so good it shouldn't be removed.

I missed the joke in here, can anyone explain

 

[Roguey]

From here (once you clear out the Temple) next game to go is Pool of Radiance: Ruins of Myth Drannor.

Even bigger dungeon with lots of hidden passages. And no boring Hommlet to suck away your motivation!

You'll have a jolly good time. Just don't try to uninstall it. It's so good it shouldn't be removed.

I missed the joke in here, can anyone explain

Ruins of Myth Drannor shipped in such a buggy state that uninstalling it would wipe your hard drive.

 

[Gargaune]

Ruins of Myth Drannor shipped in such a buggy state that uninstalling it would wipe your hard drive.

Dissatisfied customers aren't a problem if they can't get online to leave a bad review.

 

[rojay]

Ruins of Myth Drannor shipped in such a buggy state that uninstalling it would wipe your hard drive.

Dissatisfied customers aren't a problem if they can't get online to leave a bad review.

Those were early days for the internet I guess but Jesus what a shitshow.

 

[Laz Sundays]

I don't even skip Hommlet, bruh.

 

[KainenMorden]

Just do Temple+ for tech reasons, the co8 was buggy jank imo. When you finish TOEE start KOTC2, it's like a sequel.

I did a co8 run not that long ago, the extra content is fun because of some tough battles and I think its great that so much work got put into the mod and I believe even Tim Cain contributed but the quests/writing were terrible imo and it did crash often.

 

[NecroLord]

Temple+ is pretty much mandatory,as it fixes tons of bugs, world map travel freezes,crashes,stuff like that. Co8(without the extra content installed) is also recommended,if only for more fixes. Only install the extra content if you want to try something different. Personally,I like the inclusion of classic D&D spells like Mind Blank and Moment of Prescience(when you can cast level 8 arcane spells),Hickory Branch(that orc-bugbear-ogre) fortress is pretty damn good. That Hextorite attack on Hommlet quest is also really good,tons of fun combat.

 

[KainenMorden]

Temple+ is pretty much mandatory,as it fixes tons of bugs, world map travel freezes,crashes,stuff like that. Co8(without the extra content installed) is also recommended,if only for more fixes. Only install the extra content if you want to try something different. Personally,I like the inclusion of classic D&D spells like Mind Blank and Moment of Prescience(when you can cast level 8 arcane spells),Hickory Branch(that orc-bugbear-ogre) fortress is pretty damn good. That Hextorite attack on Hommlet quest is also really good,tons of fun combat.

The combat system itself is great but I'm someone who was a big fan of dark suns and had almost as much fun playing that as the ie games mostly because of the TB combat.

My only critique of the combat in the game itself is that there wasn't many arcane spellcasters to go against. Not sure if the pnp version is that way but I just took that as being part of the setting, you're going against a temple run by evil clerics not wizards/sorcerors.

The extra co8 content is worth playing but I agree with other posters who recommend installing co8 and temple+ and just doing a vanilla run first. I'd level cap it at 11 so you can use crafting feats.

Also would have been helpful if they made a listing of the spells they added somewhere, I've never seen one, as far as I know, you have to use the dm tool to level up a character to see the spells.

 

[NecroLord]

The Co8 extra content does include some tougher battles(the Slavers for example,one who is a Sorceress and can even cast Finger of Death) and the hired thugs who ambush you in your house in Nulb. I agree,there are too few powerful enemy mages in the game. Thankfully,the Circle+ mod does improve the enemy AI,who will now even wake up their allies if you managed to put them to sleep with the spell,and even take 5 foot steps instead of charging like idiots and provoking Attacks of Opportunity.
The mod does have some really dumb additions,like having to battle a goddamn avatar of St. Cuthbert or Iuz(this depends on party alignment - LG,NG and LN get Iuz,while NE,CE and CN fight St. Cuthbert). The remaining alignments fight FOUR Balors at the same time. As you can see,the extra content does not lack in stupidity.

 

[KainenMorden]

The Co8 extra content does include some tougher battles(the Slavers for example,one who is a Sorceress and can even cast Finger of Death) and the hired thugs who ambush you in your house in Nulb. I agree,there are too few powerful enemy mages in the game. Thankfully,the Circle+ mod does improve the enemy AI,who will now even wake up their allies if you managed to put them to sleep with the spell,and even take 5 foot steps instead of charging like idiots and provoking Attacks of Opportunity.
The mod does have some really dumb additions,like having to battle a goddamn avatar of St. Cuthbert or Iuz(this depends on party alignment - LG,NG and LN get Iuz,while NE,CE and CN fight St. Cuthbert). The remaining alignments fight FOUR Balors at the same time. As you can see,the extra content does not lack in stupidity.

Well, I guess it doesn't surprise me that the writing sucks and there's a lack of balance in combat encounters. Even professional developers struggle with these things.

The most amazing thing about toee: it's been modded for almost 2 decades and it still is going to fkn crash on you at some point.

Again though, I'm very appreciative people worked so hard to improve issues with this niche game.

Also, co8 gets downright arrogant by adding things to the game and then declaring them as basically canon. I didnt mind the additions at all but I still feel that's extremely arrogant.

Also geveral question to anyone here, do you know what Time Cain contributed to co8?

 

[Darth Canoli]

My only critique of the combat in the game itself is that there wasn't many arcane spellcasters to go against. Not sure if the pnp version is that way but I just took that as being part of the setting, you're going against a temple run by evil clerics not wizards/sorcerors.

It's probably similar to the P&P version as in Temple, most people there are priests.

There's an optional fight with a mage and some assassins where you find the orb, a party with at least one mage on Hedrak's level, Hedrak has a mage in his party as well, there's the Lamia, the final optional boss is a mage as well, I think, a few witches here and there like the hag in nulb's hunting quest, etc.
Sure, not every other opponent is a mage but still, there's mages around.

 

[KainenMorden]

My only critique of the combat in the game itself is that there wasn't many arcane spellcasters to go against. Not sure if the pnp version is that way but I just took that as being part of the setting, you're going against a temple run by evil clerics not wizards/sorcerors.

It's probably similar to the P&P version as in Temple, most people there are priests.

There's an optional fight with a mage and some assassins where you find the orb, a party with at least one mage on Hedrak's level, Hedrak has a mage in his party as well, there's the Lamia, the final optional boss is a mage as well, I think, a few witches here and there like the hag in nulb's hunting quest, etc.
Sure, not every other opponent is a mage but still, there's mages around.

I agree with you, I'm just comparing it to BG2/IWD2 with the wizard fights, beholders, illithids, etc. but of course its a much shorter game.

 

[Cael]

My only critique of the combat in the game itself is that there wasn't many arcane spellcasters to go against. Not sure if the pnp version is that way but I just took that as being part of the setting, you're going against a temple run by evil clerics not wizards/sorcerors.

It's probably similar to the P&P version as in Temple, most people there are priests.

There's an optional fight with a mage and some assassins where you find the orb, a party with at least one mage on Hedrak's level, Hedrak has a mage in his party as well, there's the Lamia, the final optional boss is a mage as well, I think, a few witches here and there like the hag in nulb's hunting quest, etc.
Sure, not every other opponent is a mage but still, there's mages around.

I agree with you, I'm just comparing it to BG2/IWD2 with the wizard fights, beholders, illithids, etc. but of course its a much shorter game.

TOEE is crippled by the turn-based mechanic. It takes too long, which is surprising coming from me as I love turn-based Fallout Tactics and Gold Box games.

 

[Glop_dweller]

TOEE has the best implementation of D&D combat to date; best of any cRPG known.