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Grand Strategy Victoria 3

thesecret1

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Joined
Jun 30, 2019
Messages
5,847
What we need is an organized anti-woke modding group.
Only if the game is actually better than its predecessor, otherwise there's no point. Victoria 2 had many weakpoints that were made up for by its strengths; the main hope here is that V3 will fix those while preserving what made V2 so good. Sadly, poz and decline tend to go hand in hand...

People asked the same question of CK3, and the decline was so deeply ingrained that nobody could fix it with mods. None of the best modders from CK2 even made a serious attempt.
It's not so dire – most of the modders only adopted a "wait and see" approach rather than giving up outright. Of course, the fact that both of Paradox's DLCs so far have been stinkers, and that they seem to take a hell of a lot longer to drop while not really providing more content than ones in CK2 doesn't build much in the way of enthusiasm.

One has to wonder what the fuck is Paradox even doing. It's like they got a lobotomy somewhere along the way, and now just cannot help but fuck up constantly. Look at Stellaris: how many times did they completely re-do several of the core mechanics? Five times? Ten times? More? They seem to be getting away with it sales-wise, but to revamp core systems so many times, clearly their design team is dogshit. Then they released Imperator, which died a dog's death... A successor to EU:Rome, that fared exactly as badly as EU:Rome, for many of the same reasons, even. Cannot make this shit up, I swear. Then they shit out CK3, their mainline IP... and proceed to release DLCs comparable with the shittier ones in CK2, only at a much slower pace. Oh and of course, throughout all this, you could see the steadily declining quality of EU4 DLCs, that just keep going from bad to worse to the point some of the biggest mod makers are content to stay on older versions of the game, "until Paradox fixes their shit". Paradox has been full of faggoty cuckolds for many years now, how does it keep getting worse?
 

Fedora Master

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Incompetence is a self-reinforcing process. They lost the people competent enough to create new things and now they're just leeching off existing code. Since they're all clueless they also can't hire anyone with more experience because they don't recognise needed skills anymore.

Add to this the arrogance they exhibit constantly and you end up with a studio that can't fix its own problems.
 

Drop Duck

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687
Well, IIRC we're not allowed to link to torrents here, so I'm just not sure what the stance is on content that is also a copyright violation (gameplay footage from the leaks has been getting taken down on Youtube, which implies Paradox, which retains copyright over any footage or images from their games, does not consent to content of the leaks being posted). Not that I agree with it, but I could see it being a legal issue (even if a very silly one) and therefore something the site's administration would rather not be happening here at all, regardless of RPG Codex probably not being even remotely on Paradox's radar.
My cousin is a lawyer and he's told me that as long as the site isn't hosting it it won't get in trouble. The problem is if you embed it which means the site gives more direct access to legally gray material, it might not be hosted here, but it would appear here.

I'm going to show you how it is done, I've made an album and recorded a few videos of the leaked beta version and uploaded it here, offsite. If anyone wants a big sneak peek at the game they can just follow that link and it has nothing to do with the Codex.
I can't believe I got away with that. :lol:
 

JamesDixon

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Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Incompetence is a self-reinforcing process. They lost the people competent enough to create new things and now they're just leeching off existing code. Since they're all clueless they also can't hire anyone with more experience because they don't recognise needed skills anymore.

Add to this the arrogance they exhibit constantly and you end up with a studio that can't fix its own problems.

What makes it even worse is their customer service bans people who gave excellent feedback in order to protect the fragile egos of the children working for said company.
 

Joggerino

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How do you get this POS build to run? The included "patch" is corrupted and no binaries get me anywhere. The launcher gives some steam error.
 

Tyrr

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WwuskUB.jpg

9RcnkdP.jpg

Z0daSXN.jpg

ag4iOuj.jpg
Woketoria 3
 

Drop Duck

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How do you get this POS build to run? The included "patch" is corrupted and no binaries get me anywhere. The launcher gives some steam error.
Don't bother with any patch or the launcher, just run the victoria3.exe in the binaries folder after unzipping and the game runs fine.
 

Joggerino

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How do you get this POS build to run? The included "patch" is corrupted and no binaries get me anywhere. The launcher gives some steam error.
Don't bother with any patch or the launcher, just run the victoria3.exe in the binaries folder after unzipping and the game runs fine.
I think the problem is that I'm running windows 7. Nothing seems to work.
 

Drop Duck

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Messages
687
How do you get this POS build to run? The included "patch" is corrupted and no binaries get me anywhere. The launcher gives some steam error.
Don't bother with any patch or the launcher, just run the victoria3.exe in the binaries folder after unzipping and the game runs fine.
I think the problem is that I'm running windows 7. Nothing seems to work.
It's probably a Windows 10 and up only game. Few games have Win7 support these days.
 

Axioms

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How do you get this POS build to run? The included "patch" is corrupted and no binaries get me anywhere. The launcher gives some steam error.
Don't bother with any patch or the launcher, just run the victoria3.exe in the binaries folder after unzipping and the game runs fine.
I think the problem is that I'm running windows 7. Nothing seems to work.
Anti-Windows 7 discrimination is the genocide of our time. How dare they treat us like this. There's literally no need to exclude Windows 7.
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,788
With the V3 community patch having gotten to the point where the game doesn't crash every week I've been able to play it a bit more, and I think my main impression is that they haven't taken Victoria 2 and modernized it; rather, they've taken their newer games and tried to hammer them into something Victoria 2-ish, without much success. It doesn't feel like "V2 with pretty graphics and some gameplay improvements". It feels like someone took their most recent games, like HoI4, and reskinned them to look victorian. The construction queue works like HoI4, trade seems to work like HoI4, the UI looks like their newer games, I think the pop system is basically the one from Stellaris, decision trees have been replaced with EU4-style missions, etc.

People have said in the past that Paradox couldn't make Victoria 2 today if they wanted to and others have said that probably isn't the case, but I think it is. Paradox legitimately can't make Victoria 2 again, all they can do is reskin their new games to look victorian. The devs have said of the leak, "We’re not mad, just disappointed." and I'd say that's how I feel about the game itself.
 

thesecret1

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Messages
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People have said in the past that Paradox couldn't make Victoria 2 today if they wanted to and others have said that probably isn't the case, but I think it is. Paradox legitimately can't make Victoria 2 again, all they can do is reskin their new games to look victorian.
They can't, and they don't want to.
 

Space Satan

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As the saying goes: We’re not mad, just disappointed.

Last week the Victoria 3 dev team was alerted that streams of an in-development build of the game shared with a small group of testers was being broadcast within a small online community. As these things go, this footage quickly ended up in public. As hype grew around the leaked video so did demands for more, and before long links to download a cracked version of the leaked build started getting shared around.

We understand you’re excited about the game - we are too, and we’re anxious to share it with you properly! But there’s a reason why we haven’t yet launched Victoria 3 in open beta, Early Access, or similar. Yes, the game is technically in a playable state, but its current lack of balance and level of polish obscures many aspects of the mechanics and how they interrelate. Some interfaces are tedious or just not fun to engage with yet. It lacks a lot of crucial AI work, contains game-breaking bugs, and has only the most rudimentary tutorial and player guidance. Especially in an interconnected game like Victoria, just a single deficiency like that can have a negative domino effect on the whole experience of playing the game.

We can explain at length in dev diaries how our mechanics work and what our intentions with them are, but once you get a feel for how the game mechanics work in action, all those words lose their meaning. So when something isn’t fully realized in the game yet, you’re going to come away with an inaccurate impression of what we intend it to be. That’s not good for either of us, and it greatly damages our ability to have an open dialogue with you. If what you want is less interaction between developers and community and a more closely guarded development for future Paradox projects, then leaks like this are the single best way to try and make that happen.

We have (of course) read many of the posts community members have made since playing the leak, both positive and negative ones. Fact is, no matter how in-depth or insightful, none of them identify anything that’s new or surprising to us. Many of the concerns raised were already scheduled to be addressed in the development plan up to release. Even the most positive posts about how fun and engaging the game is even in an unbalanced, unpolished state are tainted with the knowledge that this first impression is still a let-down compared to what it ought to have been. For this reason, none of the feedback we’ve gotten as a result of the leak is really actionable or of any real use to us. It has mainly served as a hit to the team’s morale and a distraction from finishing the game, and in fact made it harder for us to act on your feedback, tainted as it is now by all the factors mentioned above.

Once the game has reached a state where we could really benefit from and respond to your feedback, we’ll be eager to be able to properly show it to you. Paradox has always maintained a quite open development process, and in the Victoria dev team we intend to double down on that responsiveness to community input because we think that’s what’s best for the game. But for that communication and trust to work, you have to also trust that if we’re not showing you something yet it’s because it really isn’t ready to be shown.

Before the leak, we were already looking forward to streaming the game in the near future, and to focus more on showing off in the game in motion, and we’re of course still planning to do this! We understand your curiosity and how excited you are for the game and what has happened isn’t going to change our focus on delivering a great game at release. However, while doing so, we can’t help feeling disappointed and demoralized by how all of this went down.

The Vicky 3 dev team
 

Demo.Graph

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Jun 17, 2018
Messages
1,010
With the V3 community patch having gotten to the point where the game doesn't crash every week I've been able to play it a bit more, and I think my main impression is that they haven't taken Victoria 2 and modernized it; rather, they've taken their newer games and tried to hammer them into something Victoria 2-ish, without much success. It doesn't feel like "V2 with pretty graphics and some gameplay improvements". It feels like someone took their most recent games, like HoI4, and reskinned them to look victorian. The construction queue works like HoI4, trade seems to work like HoI4, the UI looks like their newer games, I think the pop system is basically the one from Stellaris, decision trees have been replaced with EU4-style missions, etc.

People have said in the past that Paradox couldn't make Victoria 2 today if they wanted to and others have said that probably isn't the case, but I think it is. Paradox legitimately can't make Victoria 2 again, all they can do is reskin their new games to look victorian. The devs have said of the leak, "We’re not mad, just disappointed." and I'd say that's how I feel about the game itself.
Could you elaborate?
Suppose that they still have a year of dev time atm and specific balance numbers could be changed. What mechanics they likely wouldn't be able to change?
Dox dev diaries on economics and pop systems looked nice. Are the mechanics from them present in the game?
 

Tigranes

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Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Yeah, I'm not sure what can really be concluded from the leaked build beyond what we can already suspect from (1) the track record of modern Paradox, and (2) what they already show in dev diaries and updates. Paradox doesn't really tend to lie or obfuscate the game so that the end product is totally different from the dev diaries. The problem is usually that they tell you what they're doing, and you think "well it'd be great if you did it properly but you'll probably just script some modifiers and call it a day", and that's how it goes.

E.g. does the build show that the non-doomstack war system is fundamentally broken / not new?
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
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Suppose that they still have a year of dev time atm and specific balance numbers could be changed. What mechanics they likely wouldn't be able to change?

Well, to start, it's not the V2 pop system. My best guess, it's the Stellaris pop system, or something close to it; it's hard to tell because the UI is so shit and pop information is relayed so poorly compared to V2, which gave you very autistic levels of detail on basically every aspect of your pops, right down to every single reason why those Polish Catholic Farmers in Breslau aren't converting to Protestantism. I don't think they'd be able to get the V2 pop system integrated into modern Clausewitz. I don't think they'd be able to get a working V2 style autonomous economy. It was kind of shitty in V2 (capitalists basically RNG'd on factories until they built profitable ones out of lock) but it worked. I don't think they'd be able to manage even that in V3 - I suspect even if they added the ability for factories to be randomly built given investment from capitalist pops in a state, they'd make some dumb implementation decision that would murder performance and arrogantly dismiss anyone who identified the problem (has happened already with Stellaris and the jobs thing).

I don't think they could implement a good trade system. What they have right now is basically the material purchases from HoI4. What a good trade system should entail is having a goods buyer and seller, let's call it the Gateway (that represents shipping / sale from local market to other markets - think of it as a general representation of mercantile and shipping companies) which can purchase locally made goods, and sell goods from its stockpile to the local market, but can also trade for goods with any other Gateway entity, provided there's a path to it (such as a protected shipping route) and the laws of both economies allow it for the goods in question. So each tick, the local factories would produce goods, and pops would buy these goods, but the Gateway would also buy them if they're cheap relative to any Gateway it can trade with; the Gateway would also sell goods from its stockpile to local pops, who might buy from it rather than local factories if the price is better. Similarly factories could buy from it for inputs, or from other local operations. At a later phase of that tick, all the Gateways get together and buy and sell from each other depending on their local demands - eg perhaps the Massachusetts Gateway has a lot of steam engines for sale, because they've been produced in abundance there, and it has a low demand for them, but the Piedmont Gateway has a high demand for steam engines due to local demand, so it might end up buying MG's steam engines. Then on the next tick, PG puts those steam engines on the local market in Piedmont and pops will buy them. However, this would only work if the USA and Sardinia-Piedmont had some kind of trade agreement that permitted the trade of steam engines. Or they might have a trade deal that allows it, but that applies tariffs, so PG might not buy very many of them since they end up being too expensive once tariffs are applied, which keeps steam engines profitable to make in Piedmont, and could spur the growth of Piedmont's own steam engine industry.

That description might not have communicated exactly what I mean super well, and I know that the system I'm describing is not particularly easy to implement. But it's how trade should work in a Victoria style game. The player should not be making HoI4 style deals to buy this good and sell that good, the player should be negotiating favourable trade deals that then allow an underlying, and self-governing system (which players can't directly control unless running a command economy) to buy and sell between countries in the same manner that purchases and sales occur between pops and factories, or factories and other factories. If you want rubber, you shouldn't be creating a rubber import route. You should be making a general free trade agreement with a country like the Netherlands that you know produces rubber, and then your market has a gateway connection to a market where rubber is produced, and demand will naturally draw rubber into your market, provided a fleet is assigned to protect the trade route. You have an industrial country but your factories are overproducing, lowering their local goods value, and you want them to be able to sell to a wider audience and get a profit going again? Time to pressure your less-industrialized neighbours into freedom of trade.

It's really a common trend in basically every aspect of the game that I've seen (doesn't include combat, which I've not done yet). There's not really much of an underlying simulation, and everything is driven by the player microing like they're running a Planned Economy in V2. Instead of playing like the ruler of a nation, you're playing like the player of an RTS game. Capitalist pops aren't out there making trade routes, the player is microing exact imports and exports. Hell, capitalists aren't even building factories on their own anymore. Parliament won't try to pass laws on its own, the player has to initiate it. Granted, some of this was the case in V2, or was absent (like trade deals), but the point is that they've either regressed or come up with bad implementations of things that were needed in basically every area.

It's not that I think these things can't be changed. I just think Paradox itself is both too incompetent to do it, and too arrogant to accept that it ought to be done. And that maybe their vision of what the game should be just isn't the same as what V2 was or what we might want out of V3 - ie, there's little underlying sim because they don't want there to be one, and the player micros things like buying coal because that's what they've decided the game will be about.
 

thesecret1

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It's not that I think these things can't be changed. I just think Paradox itself is both too incompetent to do it, and too arrogant to accept that it ought to be done. And that maybe their vision of what the game should be just isn't the same as what V2 was or what we might want out of V3 - ie, there's little underlying sim because they don't want there to be one, and the player micros things like buying coal because that's what they've decided the game will be about.
It's been a trend in Paradox for years now that they steadily move away from simulation and towards abstraction. Johan himself is a big proponent of that.
 

Axioms

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It seems unbelievable that they wouldn't have an actual goods/trade simulation. Like, are they expecting a CK3 style influx of plebs who won't realize and assuming the Vicky2 fans will eat shit cause what else can they do? Things looking up for Grey Eminence if that is the case.
 

Space Satan

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Dev Diary #43 - The American Civil War
16_9.jpg
DD43%2001.png


The United States of America begins the game with a Journal Entry already underway. In the first years of the game, and historically, the 1830s were already rife with national debate over the issue of slavery, although violence was only just beginning to escalate. At this point on the national level, all the United States can try to do is balance the pressures of abolitionists and pro-slavery advocates, and either limit escalation or come down firmly on the side of one camp or another.

Even a policy of appeasement and reconciliation will not stop rising tensions entirely. Some events will ratchet up tensions regardless of whatever option is chosen; the main difference in choices is determining who will become more mad and who will be more mollified by ensuing government actions.

Iowa has become the front line in the fight over slavery, and will be struck with unrest regardless of the choice picked.
DD43 02.png
Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2002.png

As tensions rise, violence will rise, and events will become more and more polarizing. Early events may talk about a single senator's words, or a single death in a city, but as the issue festers, things will just get worse and worse until something gives way. Newspaper debates will turn into arguments on the floor of the Senate, then those arguments will turn into canings, and people will stop campaigning with pamphlets and start campaigning with paramilitaries.

Attempts to ban slavery are more likely to create a reactionary movement in the United States.
DD43%2003.png


The most straightforward way to end the debate over slavery may be to just end it, but this carries enormous risks - political movements may emerge in reaction to the potential passage of these laws. Of course, not banning slavery may also lead to a movement emerging explicitly agitating for the abolition of slavery, and that has its own set of challenges.

Triggering the Civil War early caused a slightly different set of states to secede. Florida simply didn't have enough pro-slavery supporters here to join the pre-war movement that formed the basis of the CSA.
DD43 04.png
DD43 05.png

Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2005.png

The war itself has its own incidents that can complicate the pursuit of victory or give some unique opportunities. Raiders will jump back and forth across the border, causing chaos, while Unionist sympathizers in secessionist-held areas and secessionist sympathizers in Union-held areas will challenge the authority of local governments as long as the war still burns. If the secessionists are pro-slavery but the Union has not finished enacting abolition yet, the country will have a special change to radically hasten the change in law through a certain proclamation.

The war itself plays out the same way

If the secessionists win, then… the secessionists win, and a new country is established in North America. A Union victory, however, will lead to Reconstruction.

Reconstruction varies depending on how the Civil War went.
DD43 06.png
DD43 07.png

Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2007.png

Reconstruction will be ugly. Historically, it wasn't a clean and smooth process, and in the game it's not a clean and smooth process. There was a struggle to balance the ambitions of Reconstruction against the resistance of a reactionary coalition that sought to restore their antebellum political power and impose a vision of racial supremacy upon society. Pursuing egalitarian measures will alienate these people and related groups, which may make governance more difficult and more expensive, while currying favor with them will undercut the foundations of Reconstruction and create another alienated population that will have to be contended with for the rest of the game. Every step is fraught with challenges to the government and to the welfare of the people; Reconstruction will be rough.

Frontier justice is a tricky thing.
DD43 08.png
Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2008.png

Not all postwar turmoil will be right where the fighting happened. Knock-on effects of the Civil War will be felt across the nation, from the very center of government to the furthest tendrils of the frontier. It's up to you, the player, to decide how the country will face all these myriad challenges. What kind of America do you want to create?

How's that for something to stew on for a week? Next time, we're going to talk more about how you can fight battles, both in the American Civil War and with wars in general, with the one and only KaiserJohan!
 
Joined
Dec 24, 2018
Messages
1,788
Dev Diary #43 - The American Civil War
16_9.jpg
DD43%2001.png


The United States of America begins the game with a Journal Entry already underway. In the first years of the game, and historically, the 1830s were already rife with national debate over the issue of slavery, although violence was only just beginning to escalate. At this point on the national level, all the United States can try to do is balance the pressures of abolitionists and pro-slavery advocates, and either limit escalation or come down firmly on the side of one camp or another.

Even a policy of appeasement and reconciliation will not stop rising tensions entirely. Some events will ratchet up tensions regardless of whatever option is chosen; the main difference in choices is determining who will become more mad and who will be more mollified by ensuing government actions.

Iowa has become the front line in the fight over slavery, and will be struck with unrest regardless of the choice picked.
DD43 02.png
Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2002.png

As tensions rise, violence will rise, and events will become more and more polarizing. Early events may talk about a single senator's words, or a single death in a city, but as the issue festers, things will just get worse and worse until something gives way. Newspaper debates will turn into arguments on the floor of the Senate, then those arguments will turn into canings, and people will stop campaigning with pamphlets and start campaigning with paramilitaries.

Attempts to ban slavery are more likely to create a reactionary movement in the United States.
DD43%2003.png


The most straightforward way to end the debate over slavery may be to just end it, but this carries enormous risks - political movements may emerge in reaction to the potential passage of these laws. Of course, not banning slavery may also lead to a movement emerging explicitly agitating for the abolition of slavery, and that has its own set of challenges.

Triggering the Civil War early caused a slightly different set of states to secede. Florida simply didn't have enough pro-slavery supporters here to join the pre-war movement that formed the basis of the CSA.
DD43 04.png
DD43 05.png

Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2005.png

The war itself has its own incidents that can complicate the pursuit of victory or give some unique opportunities. Raiders will jump back and forth across the border, causing chaos, while Unionist sympathizers in secessionist-held areas and secessionist sympathizers in Union-held areas will challenge the authority of local governments as long as the war still burns. If the secessionists are pro-slavery but the Union has not finished enacting abolition yet, the country will have a special change to radically hasten the change in law through a certain proclamation.

The war itself plays out the same way

If the secessionists win, then… the secessionists win, and a new country is established in North America. A Union victory, however, will lead to Reconstruction.

Reconstruction varies depending on how the Civil War went.
DD43 06.png
DD43 07.png

Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2007.png

Reconstruction will be ugly. Historically, it wasn't a clean and smooth process, and in the game it's not a clean and smooth process. There was a struggle to balance the ambitions of Reconstruction against the resistance of a reactionary coalition that sought to restore their antebellum political power and impose a vision of racial supremacy upon society. Pursuing egalitarian measures will alienate these people and related groups, which may make governance more difficult and more expensive, while currying favor with them will undercut the foundations of Reconstruction and create another alienated population that will have to be contended with for the rest of the game. Every step is fraught with challenges to the government and to the welfare of the people; Reconstruction will be rough.

Frontier justice is a tricky thing.
DD43 08.png
Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2008.png

Not all postwar turmoil will be right where the fighting happened. Knock-on effects of the Civil War will be felt across the nation, from the very center of government to the furthest tendrils of the frontier. It's up to you, the player, to decide how the country will face all these myriad challenges. What kind of America do you want to create?

How's that for something to stew on for a week? Next time, we're going to talk more about how you can fight battles, both in the American Civil War and with wars in general, with the one and only KaiserJohan!

But will it be possible to fulfill Abraham Lincoln's dream and send all the niggers back to Africa?
 

JamesDixon

GM Extraordinaire
Patron
Dumbfuck
Joined
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Messages
11,247
Location
In the ether
Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut
Dev Diary #43 - The American Civil War
16_9.jpg
DD43%2001.png


The United States of America begins the game with a Journal Entry already underway. In the first years of the game, and historically, the 1830s were already rife with national debate over the issue of slavery, although violence was only just beginning to escalate. At this point on the national level, all the United States can try to do is balance the pressures of abolitionists and pro-slavery advocates, and either limit escalation or come down firmly on the side of one camp or another.

Even a policy of appeasement and reconciliation will not stop rising tensions entirely. Some events will ratchet up tensions regardless of whatever option is chosen; the main difference in choices is determining who will become more mad and who will be more mollified by ensuing government actions.

Iowa has become the front line in the fight over slavery, and will be struck with unrest regardless of the choice picked.
DD43 02.png
Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

" style="box-sizing: border-box; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; cursor: pointer;">
DD43%2002.png

As tensions rise, violence will rise, and events will become more and more polarizing. Early events may talk about a single senator's words, or a single death in a city, but as the issue festers, things will just get worse and worse until something gives way. Newspaper debates will turn into arguments on the floor of the Senate, then those arguments will turn into canings, and people will stop campaigning with pamphlets and start campaigning with paramilitaries.

Attempts to ban slavery are more likely to create a reactionary movement in the United States.
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The most straightforward way to end the debate over slavery may be to just end it, but this carries enormous risks - political movements may emerge in reaction to the potential passage of these laws. Of course, not banning slavery may also lead to a movement emerging explicitly agitating for the abolition of slavery, and that has its own set of challenges.

Triggering the Civil War early caused a slightly different set of states to secede. Florida simply didn't have enough pro-slavery supporters here to join the pre-war movement that formed the basis of the CSA.
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Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

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The war itself has its own incidents that can complicate the pursuit of victory or give some unique opportunities. Raiders will jump back and forth across the border, causing chaos, while Unionist sympathizers in secessionist-held areas and secessionist sympathizers in Union-held areas will challenge the authority of local governments as long as the war still burns. If the secessionists are pro-slavery but the Union has not finished enacting abolition yet, the country will have a special change to radically hasten the change in law through a certain proclamation.

The war itself plays out the same way

If the secessionists win, then… the secessionists win, and a new country is established in North America. A Union victory, however, will lead to Reconstruction.

Reconstruction varies depending on how the Civil War went.
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Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

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Reconstruction will be ugly. Historically, it wasn't a clean and smooth process, and in the game it's not a clean and smooth process. There was a struggle to balance the ambitions of Reconstruction against the resistance of a reactionary coalition that sought to restore their antebellum political power and impose a vision of racial supremacy upon society. Pursuing egalitarian measures will alienate these people and related groups, which may make governance more difficult and more expensive, while currying favor with them will undercut the foundations of Reconstruction and create another alienated population that will have to be contended with for the rest of the game. Every step is fraught with challenges to the government and to the welfare of the people; Reconstruction will be rough.

Frontier justice is a tricky thing.
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Ofaloaf · Apr 20, 2022 at 15:33

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Not all postwar turmoil will be right where the fighting happened. Knock-on effects of the Civil War will be felt across the nation, from the very center of government to the furthest tendrils of the frontier. It's up to you, the player, to decide how the country will face all these myriad challenges. What kind of America do you want to create?

How's that for something to stew on for a week? Next time, we're going to talk more about how you can fight battles, both in the American Civil War and with wars in general, with the one and only KaiserJohan!

Too bad that they ignored Lincoln's First Inaugural Address and every campaign speech where he said slavery was off limits and would go to war for taxes. That's what the entire issue was going all the way back to the 1820s. When Lincoln assumed the dictatorship the Morrel Tariff had already been passed and signed into law that levied a 78% combined tax rate on southern states.
 

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